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  1. #1
    Registered User Lopez27's Avatar
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    Powerlifting and Running?

    Basically I have 3-6 months to go from being able to run 1 mile (now) without stopping to 10k.

    I plan on running 3 non-consecutive days per week and progressively building up from 1 mile to 10k. Would this be so much that I would have to cut back on my lifting and sacrifice progress?
    I'm currently on week 7 of Madcows 5x5 but I'm thinking if I switched to something like 5/3/1 or a Westside variant I will be okay. Anyone have any experience with this? Advice or tips?

    Also, to those curious as to why I have to do this, I will be entering a police academy in 3-6 months and they routinely go for 10k runs and I'm expected to be in shape by Day 1 but I also don't want to become small and weak which is just as important.

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Future Frogman zdb55's Avatar
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    You will have to up your caloric intake from the extra cardio, you shouldn't see any sacrificed progress in lifting if you are still in a caloric surplus. Just go on how you feel, if you stop making gains from all of the running with a caloric surplus than you might need to tone cardio or lifting back for recovery, but most likely you shouldn't have any problems. I am still seeing strength gains from running and lifting MWF plus swimming and calisthenics TTHSat.
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  3. #3
    xccellence.com TripTastic's Avatar
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    10k 3x/week? that would be far too much running to make any real gains in powerlifting imo---- eventually your body would adapt, but id imagine your lifts would sh11t the bed for a few months
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  4. #4
    Registered User Lopez27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zdb55 View Post
    You will have to up your caloric intake from the extra cardio, you shouldn't see any sacrificed progress in lifting if you are still in a caloric surplus. Just go on how you feel, if you stop making gains from all of the running with a caloric surplus than you might need to tone cardio or lifting back for recovery, but most likely you shouldn't have any problems. I am still seeing strength gains from running and lifting MWF plus swimming and calisthenics TTHSat.
    Yeah I plan on upping it so that I at least hit maintenance. If anything I would have to tone the lifting back as being able to run long distances is required.

    Originally Posted by TripTastic View Post
    10k 3x/week? that would be far too much running to make any real gains in powerlifting imo---- eventually your body would adapt, but id imagine your lifts would sh11t the bed for a few months
    Not until the end and I'm not sure if it is 10k 3x/week or only once. I'm using the "Run 10k" iPhone app which is a 13 week program that takes you from the couch to running a 10k.
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  5. #5
    ACE CERTIFIED BC02's Avatar
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    I lift mtw and run th and sat/sun. as long as I dont work legs the day after after my weekend run(7-10 miles) I dont lose strength
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    honestly 1mile to 10k in 3-6months w/ heavy lifting doesnt sound possible...at least not if its timed
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  7. #7
    Home gym 'til I die. ProtienandIron's Avatar
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    This is possibly the most important thing to happen in your life. Your future relies on you passing that course. If that means you have to prioritise running and the like for 6 months or more then do it without hesitation. You've got the rest of your life for lifting. Anything you lose will come back a lot quicker anyway.
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  8. #8
    Registered User EndingLife's Avatar
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    You're going to have to sacrifice some strength. Running requires slow twitch muscle. The more you run, the more you will innervate slow twitch muscle and de-innervate fast twitch muscle.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Lopez27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BC02 View Post
    I lift mtw and run th and sat/sun. as long as I dont work legs the day after after my weekend run(7-10 miles) I dont lose strength
    Cool. Yeah I figure if I lift mwf and run tths with a max effort lower workout on monday I should be good.

    Originally Posted by Kemo1990 View Post
    honestly 1mile to 10k in 3-6months w/ heavy lifting doesnt sound possible...at least not if its timed
    Originally Posted by ProtienandIron View Post
    This is possibly the most important thing to happen in your life. Your future relies on you passing that course. If that means you have to prioritise running and the like for 6 months or more then do it without hesitation. You've got the rest of your life for lifting. Anything you lose will come back a lot quicker anyway.
    Yeah, if it comes down to one or the other of course I'm going to stop lifting. But even if I stopped squatting/deadlifting to keep my lower body fresh and kept working on my upper body and lifts would that still be detrimental?

    Originally Posted by EndingLife View Post
    You're going to have to sacrifice some strength. Running requires slow twitch muscle. The more you run, the more you will innervate slow twitch muscle and de-innervate fast twitch muscle.
    Sorry if I sound dumb, but can't someone have a high amount of both fibers?
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  10. #10
    Registered User KnightsIron's Avatar
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    not scientific info but from my past experience it usually takes me a couple weeks to get my body adjusted to cardio and lifting heavy. I have made strength gains while having a cardio based program but I have better gains without it. Maybe look to lower your workout weight percentages and up the reps but I wouldnt stop the squat/deadlift imo. Good luck and keep us posted on your results.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Lopez27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnightsIron View Post
    not scientific info but from my past experience it usually takes me a couple weeks to get my body adjusted to cardio and lifting heavy. I have made strength gains while having a cardio based program but I have better gains without it. Maybe look to lower your workout weight percentages and up the reps but I wouldnt stop the squat/deadlift imo. Good luck and keep us posted on your results.
    I would think that lowering the volume would help rather than lowering intensity (weight). I don't want to stop squatting/deadlifting (especially since i've been doing so good with them lately) but I'm saying if worse comes to worst and it's just too much to keep lifting and running then would I be able to keep the upper progress going still since squatting/deadlifting (i would believe) have a stronger affect on running than upper body work.

    But I guess I'm just an idiot and a high volume of running will have no affect on my lifting because it is the same as hula-hooping or dirt biking.
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  12. #12
    Registered User EndingLife's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lopez27 View Post
    Cool. Yeah I figure if I lift mwf and run tths with a max effort lower workout on monday I should be good.





    Yeah, if it comes down to one or the other of course I'm going to stop lifting. But even if I stopped squatting/deadlifting to keep my lower body fresh and kept working on my upper body and lifts would that still be detrimental?



    Sorry if I sound dumb, but can't someone have a high amount of both fibers?
    Yea you can but only after several years of training. After running for a few weeks, you will begin to recruit slow twitch muscles and de-innervate fast twitch muscles. It's not going to happen right away but as your body starts to make progress in running, that is partially due to your body recruiting slow twitch fibers with some loss of fast twitch muscle. How much fast twitch is lost, I don't know. I just know that this happens. In terms of overall athleticism though, the trade off is well worth it. Unless you're just strictly interested in strength.
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  13. #13
    Registered User koyongi's Avatar
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    The couch-to-whatever-k programs start very slow - you won't be getting up to long runs for probably 5+ weeks.
    If you're eating plenty and resting plenty, there's no reason that you won't be able to at least maintain strength and increase your cardio pretty drastically. Just being able to finish 10k isn't exactly elite-level running, and you can bring that up without much more than "noob gains" in a running sense.
    Last summer I hit my best total (up until that time) and my best 5K time on back-to-back days. I was running C/P for deadlifts on the ME day of a Westside split, and doing two days of distance running and usually one more day of intervals. Eating, stretching, and ice baths were key.
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    I had to do this when I started training for the fire academy.

    At first my gains sucked, but time brought adjustment to the change in training. To this day I hate running, but still manage to knock out some miles along with heavy lifting. Just keep an eye on calorie intake, listen to your body, and allow for adequate rest. Your body will get used to it, and you will continue to make gains.
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    Originally Posted by ProtienandIron View Post
    This is possibly the most important thing to happen in your life. Your future relies on you passing that course. If that means you have to prioritise running and the like for 6 months or more then do it without hesitation. You've got the rest of your life for lifting. Anything you lose will come back a lot quicker anyway.
    I wonder if Derek Poundstone has to run 10k's for his job?




    srs - I agree with what you are saying though.
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    Registered User Lopez27's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by koyongi View Post
    The couch-to-whatever-k programs start very slow - you won't be getting up to long runs for probably 5+ weeks.
    If you're eating plenty and resting plenty, there's no reason that you won't be able to at least maintain strength and increase your cardio pretty drastically. Just being able to finish 10k isn't exactly elite-level running, and you can bring that up without much more than "noob gains" in a running sense.
    Last summer I hit my best total (up until that time) and my best 5K time on back-to-back days. I was running C/P for deadlifts on the ME day of a Westside split, and doing two days of distance running and usually one more day of intervals. Eating, stretching, and ice baths were key.
    Great insight and advice, much appreciated. Would you recommend I skip the early parts of the program that are really easy for me or just wait it out?

    Originally Posted by pityfornone View Post
    I had to do this when I started training for the fire academy.

    At first my gains sucked, but time brought adjustment to the change in training. To this day I hate running, but still manage to knock out some miles along with heavy lifting. Just keep an eye on calorie intake, listen to your body, and allow for adequate rest. Your body will get used to it, and you will continue to make gains.
    Yeah I hate running as well, but I gotta do it. Good for the health as well. Thanks for posting.
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    Originally Posted by EndingLife View Post
    You're going to have to sacrifice some strength. Running requires slow twitch muscle. The more you run, the more you will innervate slow twitch muscle and de-innervate fast twitch muscle.
    its just a 10k . . . OP isnt going to lose any strength whatsoever. If he was a top tier SHW single ply squatter I would argue otherwise but running 10k at a good (but not fast pace) doesnt require a wholesale body recomposition.
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    Originally Posted by Lopez27 View Post
    Great insight and advice, much appreciated. Would you recommend I skip the early parts of the program that are really easy for me or just wait it out?
    I'd just wait it out. Why jump in before you have to?
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    So this week I'm sort of doing a test week, test my lifting maxes, mile time, and other physical tests.

    I have good news and bad news. I tested my max squat and deadlift yesterday, and my mile time today. Good news is I'm stronger than I thought, I had estimated my squat max to be around 415x1 and deadlift to be 465x1, my max squat was 455x1 and my max deadlift was 495x1. Bad news is I can't even run a mile non-stop, I ran quarter of the way before slowing down to catch my breath for 20-30 seconds then ran halfway which took 4 minutes total. Then I ran on and off on the way back taking me a grand total of 14 minutes to complete the mile. Got a lot of work to do!
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    regardless of caloric intake long distance running will definitely hamper optimal strength development i'm afraid
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    Originally Posted by Lopez27 View Post
    So this week I'm sort of doing a test week, test my lifting maxes, mile time, and other physical tests.

    I have good news and bad news. I tested my max squat and deadlift yesterday, and my mile time today. Good news is I'm stronger than I thought, I had estimated my squat max to be around 415x1 and deadlift to be 465x1, my max squat was 455x1 and my max deadlift was 495x1. Bad news is I can't even run a mile non-stop, I ran quarter of the way before slowing down to catch my breath for 20-30 seconds then ran halfway which took 4 minutes total. Then I ran on and off on the way back taking me a grand total of 14 minutes to complete the mile. Got a lot of work to do!
    It took you 14 mins to run a mile? Can't the average person walk a mile at a fast pace in 15 mins? You got alotta work to do but I'm sure you can make it!

    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    regardless of caloric intake long distance running will definitely hamper optimal strength development i'm afraid
    This. It will take some strength development away but it may not necessarily take what strength you have now away. Especially if you are still getting n00b gains. We have a guy in our club who squats 3x a week and then goes to rugby practice afterwards and his squat max is still going up. But obviously if he wasn't doing the rugby, his squat max would probably be even higher now.

    I'd say stick with your lifting and see how fast your endurance is progressing at running. Then when needed, you may need to dial down the lifting a bit. But I'm sure you will be fine. Good luck.
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    Would taking creatine help or hurt?

    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    regardless of caloric intake long distance running will definitely hamper optimal strength development i'm afraid
    This is what I feared, thanks.

    Originally Posted by arian11 View Post
    It took you 14 mins to run a mile? Can't the average person walk a mile at a fast pace in 15 mins? You got alotta work to do but I'm sure you can make it!



    This. It will take some strength development away but it may not necessarily take what strength you have now away. Especially if you are still getting n00b gains. We have a guy in our club who squats 3x a week and then goes to rugby practice afterwards and his squat max is still going up. But obviously if he wasn't doing the rugby, his squat max would probably be even higher now.

    I'd say stick with your lifting and see how fast your endurance is progressing at running. Then when needed, you may need to dial down the lifting a bit. But I'm sure you will be fine. Good luck.
    Well I would say I walked about 40% of it, and not at a fast pace.

    Thanks for the tips
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    Make sure you are not going out to fast. A common mistake is to take off at a fast pace but not be able to hold it. Better to run a 12 minute mile then to run a fast quarter mile and then walk or even run/walk the rest.
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    Originally Posted by daviddaug View Post
    Make sure you are not going out to fast. A common mistake is to take off at a fast pace but not be able to hold it. Better to run a 12 minute mile then to run a fast quarter mile and then walk or even run/walk the rest.
    Well I need to run it under 10 mins, but I get what you're saying. I just need to get my lungs up to par.
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    training for a long distance mountain bike stage race (35+ miles a day 7 days straight of hellish trails) i rode 20-30 miles 5 days a week and saw no real losses. this was before i started squatting (knee surgery and recovery) so i was doing a lot of leg press. i cannot get close to the same weights anymore and im sure i would have been repping my current squat max if i were able to squat.

    nutrition is the key. i was eating close to 6k calories a day and still was managing to cut weight for the race while gaining a bit of leg strength
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    1 mile is 10 minutes isn't too hard, just find a nice easy pace and if you're desperate, learn some breathing techniques for running - makes it so much easier. You have to run at an insane speed regularly to recruit heaps of slow-twitch muscle fibres. You're most likely using the hybrid fibres for a mile at a decent pace from memory.
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    regardless of caloric intake long distance running will definitely hamper optimal strength development i'm afraid
    negged and reported

    But for lifters, what would be the best cardio to do to maintain decent strength but also have functional cardio ie. how a cop would need to sprint after criminals, fight them, etc
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    Do whats important to you now. Your body will adapt to the running and a maintenance lifting program. When you graduate the academy and start working you can get back to your old goals. Your not gonna hit any PR's running 10k 3 times a week unles your talkin about running PR's. 5/3/1 is great for maintenance as it is adjustable to any goal and wont let you be "small and weak"
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    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jack3dSparrow View Post
    negged and reported

    But for lifters, what would be the best cardio to do to maintain decent strength but also have functional cardio ie. how a cop would need to sprint after criminals, fight them, etc
    research shows the cardio that impairs strength least is high intensity intervals that incorporate hip flexion. Ie sprinting, cardio bike, bike, etc. Pretty much the worst thing you can do for leg strength is jogging or uphill walking which ironically is what a lot of people do to cut weight. This was shown eloquently in a review by Dr. Jacob Wilson at the University of Tampa
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    research shows the cardio that impairs strength least is high intensity intervals that incorporate hip flexion. Ie sprinting, cardio bike, bike, etc. Pretty much the worst thing you can do for leg strength is jogging or uphill walking which ironically is what a lot of people do to cut weight. This was shown eloquently in a review by Dr. Jacob Wilson at the University of Tampa
    Is it optimal that these intervals incorporate hip flexion, that they are high intensity, or both? What I'm really asking is what about hip flexion does Dr. Wilson say spares strength?
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