confused- obese newbie training (lifting vs cardio)

[tresjjjolie]

Hello ladies!

Now I've taken some time to look around the female section and I've gathered that eating right and lifting heavy are both extremely important. My question is about cardio. I'm notably heavy at 5'3 c. 265 lbs now. I'm returning to exercise after a long stretch that includes depression (toughest fight to date) and of a lot of weight gain rather quickly plus a crazy sedentary lifestyle that I'm working on changing.

I'm not afraid to work hard or get in there. I'm not afraid to lift or "get bulky".

But in my current shape and trying to get some sense of feeling normal again isn't cardio really important for me too?
I keep seeing advice through this site saying you don't need cardio but..

with so much extra body fat to lose, I'm just afraid of doing this "3x a week" lifting and diet and the weight coming off so slowly that I get discouraged. I understand you're not supposed to lose weight too fast but I'm not at my body's "set point" or average weight (if that makes any sense). I don't feel right, its affecting the rest of my life and I'm just at a "you know.. I'm done with the fat thing" point.

so just so you know, I'm on keto and it's working for me (I feel best on it as well). And as of right now, just had my 1st week back at the gym and it felt great.

it it my goal to shed a lot of body fat and as it comes off, a strong, fit frame emerges. I'm not looking to be just a smaller version of my current shape. And anyway I know gaining muscle helps me burn fat faster.. so how do I incorporate cardio or is the consensus still "just don't"

I'm ready to work, I just don't know what to focus on to build a strong exercise program for myself. Trying to carve out my inner rockstar here

open to your suggestions everyone
thanks so much for reading!

ps - new rules of lifting for women / and or nrol for abs.. was thinking of taking a look-see @ my local B&N. an amazon reviewer said that someone like me with so much to lose shouldn't bother with this book .. what do you guys think?

[freebirdmac]

Cardio isn't going to get the fat off faster. It may give you another pound over 3 months, but that's it. Fat loss really is about diet and lifting will have more of an effect on fat loss than cardio. So the first thing is to rid yourself of the brainwashing that cardio is needed at all for fat loss. Since you have so much weight to lose you can structure your diet and go for an average of 2 pounds a month (edit: this should say week!) for quite some time. Lifting 3 or more times a week is a no-brainer. Not only to preserve and build muscle mass but also for fat loss.

Cardio is really optional for fat loss, and really heart health as lifting has that covered. It's not optional for those looking for performance increases (i.e. sports). So where does this leave you? What I'd do is start out using it for active recovery from your lifting sessions. Start out 2x week just walking. Either around the neighborhood, or trails, or a treadmill. As you get into better shape you can graduate to more intense cardio like faster walking, or sprints, or cycling, etc. But again, keep in mind that this isn't for fat loss. It's for active recovery and improved performance. Put your max effort into your diet and lifting.

[tresjjjolie]

Since you have so much weight to lose you can structure your diet and go for an average of 2 pounds a month for quite some time. Lifting 3 or more times a week is a no-brainer.

.. Put your max effort into your diet and lifting.

hey thanks freebird - yes the cardio thing has been ingrained in me since I was a kid so its definitely a hard thing to break from mentally. I'll work on that. But also - are you saying with lifting and diet I am to expect a loss of only 2lbs a month? O.O or are you talking about gaining muscle.. ? thanks!

[shirehobbit]

OP, I hope you don't mind my jumping in on your thread.

Dear freebirdmac and other readers,

I too have cardio questions. I am also obese. Besides dropping the excess bodyfat I'm been carrying for decades I also want to rebuilt the muscles I lost while being away from the gym for a year (our family life was turned upsidedown when my brother substained a spinal cord injury and four months later I fell and substained a nondisplaced tibial plateau fracture).

I am currenly working with a personal trainer once a week. He has me doing cardio on the recumbent bike (currently 30 minute sessions but he wants me to increase it to 40 minutes) three times a week. I also do 30 minutes of walking five days a week (due to taking public transit).

I have a lot of bodyfat that I need to drop but I don't want to do in a stupid manner that impares my health (I am living with an indolent lymphoma -- I've been on low weekly doses of oral chemo since 1998 -- and type 2 diabetes -- Dx in 2008).

Because I'm also on a statin and a beta blocker (my doctor does this with all his diabetic patients), I'm wondering if doing more cardio will improve my heart health? And maybe I can get off these meds?

I know diet is a huge issue in improving my health. After an ultrasound for another issue which turned out to be nothing, I was told that I have a fatty liver. I'm guessing that the main reason for this condition is due to poor dietary choices on my part, but some of it is due to a side effect of the chemo.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Shire

[Miranda]

hey thanks freebird - yes the cardio thing has been ingrained in me since I was a kid so its definitely a hard thing to break from mentally. I'll work on that. But also - are you saying with lifting and diet I am to expect a loss of only 2lbs a month? O.O or are you talking about gaining muscle.. ? thanks!

2lbs a month (0.5lbs a week) only holds if you're very lean. overweight/obese can lose fat a far higher rate without any averse effects. i mean, at you stats, a 2lb/month loss would mean it'd take you 3-5 years to get lean

i agree that cardio isn't 100% NECESSARY on a diet, but if you're sedentary (don't move around a lot) then there's nothing wrong with cardio.

just don't think you can override/undo the effects of an inadequate diet with cardio, and don't overdo it.

[PopeGregorius]

I'm not afraid to work hard or get in there. I'm not afraid to lift or "get bulky".

You're not going to 'get bulky' unless you eat 3000 cal & train for it. Women have low testosterone & unlikely to add lots of muscle.

Do thinks you like - walking, swimming, zumba, cardio, lifting. You need something you like otherwise you wont do it! You can walk daily.

I would recommend interval training for cardio - it speeds fat loss http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interva...#Effectiveness

But fat loss is 80% diet and 20% exercise - so count calories too.

[freebirdmac]

hey thanks freebird - yes the cardio thing has been ingrained in me since I was a kid so its definitely a hard thing to break from mentally. I'll work on that. But also - are you saying with lifting and diet I am to expect a loss of only 2lbs a month? O.O or are you talking about gaining muscle.. ? thanks!

Aww crap! That should have said 2 pounds a week!!!!! Sorry. Brain fart!

OP, I hope you don't mind my jumping in on your thread.

Dear freebirdmac and other readers,

I too have cardio questions. I am also obese. Besides dropping the excess bodyfat I'm been carrying for decades I also want to rebuilt the muscles I lost while being away from the gym for a year (our family life was turned upsidedown when my brother substained a spinal cord injury and four months later I fell and substained a nondisplaced tibial plateau fracture).

I am currenly working with a personal trainer once a week. He has me doing cardio on the recumbent bike (currently 30 minute sessions but he wants me to increase it to 40 minutes) three times a week. I also do 30 minutes of walking five days a week (due to taking public transit).

I have a lot of bodyfat that I need to drop but I don't want to do in a stupid manner that impares my health (I am living with an indolent lymphoma -- I've been on low weekly doses of oral chemo since 1998 -- and type 2 diabetes -- Dx in 2008).

Because I'm also on a statin and a beta blocker (my doctor does this with all his diabetic patients), I'm wondering if doing more cardio will improve my heart health? And maybe I can get off these meds?

I know diet is a huge issue in improving my health. After an ultrasound for another issue which turned out to be nothing, I was told that I have a fatty liver. I'm guessing that the main reason for this condition is due to poor dietary choices on my part, but some of it is due to a side effect of the chemo.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Shire

I think the same advice applies to you. Diet + lifting, get the fat off, and hopefully you can get off the meds.

Here's some fun reading:

http://christianfinn.com/weight-loss-and-exercise/
http://alwyncosgrove.com/2010/01/hierarchy-of-fat-loss/
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...dio_coffin&cr=

As for heart health that everyone pushes cardio for, these are the AHA recommendations:

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Gettin...p#.T0queWC3kic

[shirehobbit]

Aww crap! That should have said 2 pounds a week!!!!! Sorry. Brain fart!



I think the same advice applies to you. Diet + lifting, get the fat off, and hopefully you can get off the meds.

Here's some fun reading:

http://christianfinn.com/weight-loss-and-exercise/
http://alwyncosgrove.com/2010/01/hierarchy-of-fat-loss/
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...dio_coffin&cr=

As for heart health that everyone pushes cardio for, these are the AHA recommendations:

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Gettin...p#.T0queWC3kic

Thank you for answering my questions! I just deleted my post and was about to start a new thread because I thought it was rude to jump in someone else's thread my own questions.


Shire

[TheHeavyG]

As said earlier, cardio is not necessary for fat loss. I lost from 349 lbs to 198 just counting calories. I REALLY wish I would have lifted weights while doing so, but I'm still satisfied. Cardio is overrated for WEIGHT LOSS.

Unless you have goals to be an athlete, then cardio will be a must.

Good luck.

[Miranda]

Here's some fun reading:

http://alwyncosgrove.com/2010/01/hierarchy-of-fat-loss/
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...dio_coffin&cr=

that's stupid reading imo. EPOC doesn't burn a massive amount of calories like people think it does, and the t-nation chick is training for a marathon, not trying to lose fat.

the first link is good, but it all it does is clarify people's misconceptions (and mistakes) of why they think cardio 'works'. not that cardio doesn't aid in fat loss, when applied correctly

fat loss is achived through energy deficit. how you create that deficit, is up to you.

[oregonchick76]

At your weight, it won't come off slowly with the right deficit - and losing weight is 90% about eating and less about the exercise. But cardio isn't bad - just not critical. And if it makes you feel good, then do it. As long as you have a good balance (proper diet, good solid lifting routine, balanced/non-excessive amt of cardio) you will do just fine.

[freebirdmac]

that's stupid reading imo. EPOC doesn't burn a massive amount of calories like people think it does, and the t-nation chick is training for a marathon, not trying to lose fat.

fat loss is achived through energy deficit. how you create that deficit, is up to you.

Not going into that argument again.

As for the marathon chick, she, like many, believed she should have been at a deficit based on all of her cardio training.

[Miranda]

Not going into that argument again.

i am.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17101527

Effects of exercise intensity and duration on the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption.
LaForgia J, Withers RT, Gore CJ.
Source

School of Pharmacy and Medical Sciences, University of South Australia, Adelaide, SA. joe.laforgia@unisa.edu.au
Abstract

Recovery from a bout of exercise is associated with an elevation in metabolism referred to as the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC). A number of investigators in the first half of the last century reported prolonged EPOC durations and that the EPOC was a major component of the thermic effect of activity. It was therefore thought that the EPOC was a major contributor to total daily energy expenditure and hence the maintenance of body mass. Investigations conducted over the last two or three decades have improved the experimental protocols used in the pioneering studies and therefore have more accurately characterized the EPOC. Evidence has accumulated to suggest an exponential relationship between exercise intensity and the magnitude of the EPOC for specific exercise durations. Furthermore, work at exercise intensities >or=50-60% VO2max stimulate a linear increase in EPOC as exercise duration increases. The existence of these relationships with resistance exercise at this stage remains unclear because of the limited number of studies and problems with quantification of work intensity for this type of exercise. Although the more recent studies do not support the extended EPOC durations reported by some of the pioneering investigators, it is now apparent that a prolonged EPOC (3-24 h) may result from an appropriate exercise stimulus (submaximal: >or=50 min at >or=70% VO2max; supramaximal: >or=6 min at >or=105% VO2max). However, even those studies incorporating exercise stimuli resulting in prolonged EPOC durations have identified that the EPOC comprises only 6-15% of the net total oxygen cost of the exercise. But this figure may need to be increased when studies utilizing intermittent work bouts are designed to allow the determination of rest interval EPOCs, which should logically contribute to the EPOC determined following the cessation of the last work bout. Notwithstanding the aforementioned, the earlier research optimism regarding an important role for the EPOC in weight loss is generally unfounded. This is further reinforced by acknowledging that the exercise stimuli required to promote a prolonged EPOC are unlikely to be tolerated by non-athletic individuals. The role of exercise in the maintenance of body mass is therefore predominantly mediated via the cumulative effect of the energy expenditure during the actual exercise.

so yeah, you do an hour or steady state, and burn 300 cals + 7% EPOC (21 calories) = 321 calories
or you do 20 mins of intervals and burn 150 cals + 15% EPOC (22.5 calories) = 172.5 calories

which one is more calories and less stressful to the body?

As for the marathon chick, she, like many, believed she should have been at a deficit based on all of her cardio training.

i don't give a toss what she believed, that's no base for writing articles about the evils of cardio. what's the last time you had a look at professional marathon runners? few fat chicks there.

...

really, i don't understand what your beef with cardio is. i've been a cardio-running skinny-fat chick, too, and never got anywhere with it. that had little to do with the cardio. it had all to do with the retarded sht that determined my so-called 'weight training and diet'.

i just don't see the point of telling an obese, sedentary person that it's okay to do some walking and such, but that it has no effect on her fat loss.

[freebirdmac]

Miranda, I am so over this argument with you. Give the advice you think applies.

[nicholina]

OP, I hope you don't mind my jumping in on your thread.

Dear freebirdmac and other readers,

I too have cardio questions. I am also obese. Besides dropping the excess bodyfat I'm been carrying for decades I also want to rebuilt the muscles I lost while being away from the gym for a year (our family life was turned upsidedown when my brother substained a spinal cord injury and four months later I fell and substained a nondisplaced tibial plateau fracture).

I am currenly working with a personal trainer once a week. He has me doing cardio on the recumbent bike (currently 30 minute sessions but he wants me to increase it to 40 minutes) three times a week. I also do 30 minutes of walking five days a week (due to taking public transit).

I have a lot of bodyfat that I need to drop but I don't want to do in a stupid manner that impares my health (I am living with an indolent lymphoma -- I've been on low weekly doses of oral chemo since 1998 -- and type 2 diabetes -- Dx in 2008).

Because I'm also on a statin and a beta blocker (my doctor does this with all his diabetic patients), I'm wondering if doing more cardio will improve my heart health? And maybe I can get off these meds?

I know diet is a huge issue in improving my health. After an ultrasound for another issue which turned out to be nothing, I was told that I have a fatty liver. I'm guessing that the main reason for this condition is due to poor dietary choices on my part, but some of it is due to a side effect of the chemo.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Shire

For a diabetic, cardio is very beneficial. 30 minutes of walking most days is a good start. It not only is beneficial for your heart but also improves circulation to your lower extremities, which will help prevent a lot of foot/leg complications common in diabetics. It can also help with blood glucose control and possibly prevent you from having to go on insulin, if you're not already on it.
Its possible that you may be able to go off of the meds, eventually, depending on the rest of your medical history...thats really for your doctor to decide, but it is not unheard of. Are you on oral hypoglycemics? Just don't stop them yourself, especially the beta blocker. Stopping a beta blocker abruptly can cause rebound hypertension.
Bottom line, focus on being active (for cardiovascular health), lift, and make good dietary choices.

[hieronymous]

fat loss is achived through energy deficit. how you create that deficit, is up to you.

Agree.

Good luck OP and shirehobbit.

In terms of health, having a strong cardiovascular system is generally a good thing.

[Miranda]

Miranda, I am so over this argument with you. Give the advice you think applies.

here

cardio isn't 100% NECESSARY on a diet, but if you're sedentary (don't move around a lot) then there's nothing wrong with cardio.

just don't think you can override/undo the effects of an inadequate diet with cardio, and don't overdo it.

not that cardio doesn't aid in fat loss, when applied correctly

fat loss is achived through energy deficit. how you create that deficit, is up to you.

now, if you want a longer answer -

cardio is nothing but a tool in a toolbox. i'm not getting into the purported health aspects here, but in terms of fat loss all any extra expended energy does, is create/add to an energy deficit. the body doesn't care whether you created that deficit through diet or exercise (or both). it senses a deficit, and burns fat to make up for it. simple as.

whether or not cardio is needed, DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT - lifestyle, NEAT, basal metabolism, bodyweight et cetera. if you can do without, fantastic. if you feel you want to do a bit more cardio in order to create a bigger deficit, or eat more, then go for it. just make sure you actually do maintain a deficit.

in other words, KNOW what you are doing. not merely ASSUME what you're doing. easier said than done, of course.

a slightly unrelated rant on my part is the thing is that the majority of people who love to piss on cardio seem to be reformed cardioholics, who have been doing cardio for all the wrong reasons in combination with an inadequate training regime and a crappy diet. but now they have seen the light, and there is no reason at all cardio should be done, ever, by anyone, because they fuked up themselves. great. that's their context, but it has nothing to do with the effects of cardio itself.

cardio doesn't make you 'toned'. cardio doesn't build lean mass. cardio doesn't make you lose fat, if you eat all the calories + more back.

that has nothing to do with what cardio actually does = it burns calories. what happens nexts DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT.

so yeah, if the context is a skinny-fat chick who does 1hr cardio 6 days a week and wants to 'tone', then of course she needs to drop the cardio, because she needs to build mass. cardio doesn't aid in that. an obese person who wants to lose fat can apply cardio because she needs to lose fat

the other thing is that TOO MUCH cardio on TOO LITTLE calories does hinder fat loss, but not because of cardio per se, it is because the energy deficit is too big, and women don't do well on that (hormones out of whack, water retention etc.).

the third thing is that for all the HIIT whores here; HIIT - if done correctly - is a great stress to the body. combined with a deficit and decreased recovery, HIIT can and does blow people up (see chicks who do HIIT 3-4 days a week. ouch.). low-intensity SS doesn't do that. plus, sprints were originally implemented to help improve anaerobic threshold in relation to endurance training and intervals do come with a distinct point of diminishing returns (in terms of effectiveness) as the body adapts to it. doesn't happen to the same degree with SS.

you know all that. so what's the answer? the answer is that IT DEPENDS ON THE CONTEXT. not that 'cardio is useless' and shouldn't be used and doesn't aid in fat loss.

that's just plain dogmatic, and i did find it odd you'd post the same misconstructed t-mag article after we had a comparable exchange a few years back.

that's all

[freebirdmac]

i did find it odd you'd post the same misconstructed t-mag article after we had a comparable exchange a few years back.

that's all

You obviously feel you won some debate. You did not. From your extended response it's obvious that bringing all of this up added absolutely nothing. My advice stands. Use cardio for active recovery starting off with walking. Left diet and lifting do the fat loss work.

[Miranda]

From your extended response it's obvious that bringing all of this up added absolutely nothing.

says a woman who posts irrelevant drivel from t-nation to support her bias.

[shirehobbit]

For a diabetic, cardio is very beneficial. 30 minutes of walking most days is a good start. It not only is beneficial for your heart but also improves circulation to your lower extremities, which will help prevent a lot of foot/leg complications common in diabetics. It can also help with blood glucose control and possibly prevent you from having to go on insulin, if you're not already on it.
Its possible that you may be able to go off of the meds, eventually, depending on the rest of your medical history...thats really for your doctor to decide, but it is not unheard of. Are you on oral hypoglycemics? Just don't stop them yourself, especially the beta blocker. Stopping a beta blocker abruptly can cause rebound hypertension.
Bottom line, focus on being active (for cardiovascular health), lift, and make good dietary choices.

My PCP believes all diabetics should be on statins and beta blockers and blood pressure medicine (I neglected to mention that I'm also on this) for the rest of their lives. I'd like to be able to get off the statin eventually because from what I've read it doesn't prevent heart attacks unless one has had a heart attack or have heart disease, and I don't have any evidence of that. The combination of the statin and chemo makes my hair thin (yes, I know there are worse things in life to complain about). I've read that going off a beta blocker suddenly is not a good call.

>> oral hypoglycemics

I was on one, but I lowered my daily carbs so that I was able to go off it. Currently I'm still on metformin. I've never been on insulin and I have no plans of going on it.

[shirehobbit]

One other question regarding cardio. Timing. I've read that one shouldn't do a long cardio session immediately before lifting because then you won't be able to lift as much? Currently I do 30 minutes of cardio before my lifting sessions. I could change it to 30 minutes of cardio on non-lifting nights and 10 minutes of cardio as a warm-up before my lifting session. And should I do stretching after lifting? And what's your take on foam rolling? A trainer at the gym said foam roller exercises will help my formerly broken leg recover quicker.

[freebirdmac]

One other question regarding cardio. Timing. I've read that one shouldn't do a long cardio session immediately before lifting because then you won't be able to lift as much? Currently I do 30 minutes of cardio before my lifting sessions. I could change it to 30 minutes of cardio on non-lifting nights and 10 minutes of cardio as a warm-up before my lifting session. And should I do stretching after lifting? And what's your take on foam rolling? A trainer at the gym said foam roller exercises will help my formerly broken leg recover quicker.

The thinking is yes, do your cardio after lifting so you can put everything into your lifts. Warm ups and active recovery after is fine. I too would save longer cardio for non lifting days.

Stretching after lifting is fine. Personally I think I do best with extended stretching of the worked out muscles a day or two later. I personally see a benefit to a tiny bit of stretching in between sets. The only warming up I'll do before lifting is a bit of rotator cuff work before shoulders. The whole stretch before thing, or not, seems kind of dicey. It's another one of those things that seem to go back and forth. See what works for you. Foam rolling is great! As is deep tissue massage and active release. There's some good books out there on active release. You can do amazing things with a tennis ball in a sock along with foam rollers.

[shirehobbit]

The thinking is yes, do your cardio after lifting so you can put everything into your lifts. Warm ups and active recovery after is fine. I too would save longer cardio for non lifting days.

Stretching after lifting is fine. Personally I think I do best with extended stretching of the worked out muscles a day or two later. I personally see a benefit to a tiny bit of stretching in between sets. The only warming up I'll do before lifting is a bit of rotator cuff work before shoulders. The whole stretch before thing, or not, seems kind of dicey. It's another one of those things that seem to go back and forth. See what works for you. Foam rolling is great! As is deep tissue massage and active release. There's some good books out there on active release. You can do amazing things with a tennis ball in a sock along with foam rollers.

Great! I'll get a book on foam rolling. I hear people talk about rotator cuff work because they've had shoulder injuries. Is there a sticky that explains what I should be doing before working my shoulders?

[tresjjjolie]

just wanted to thank you ladies for your input -
I just got home from a workout, supermarket and bookstore run
Picked up New Rules of Lifting for Women. Just wanna do this right.. you know?

As it stands right now I do a few cardio classes a week- spinning which is new to me and I enjoy it sans the whole.. butt hurting thing
and bringing back kickboxing into my life. I really enjoy this kind of workout.. that heat and rush I feel after that kind of push helps me a lot

but I understand now it isn't the cardio thats making or breaking the outcome here.

I'm gunna take a serious look at this book, first real "lifting session" tomorrow
won't lift on the days I do these classes
I'm sure I'll be back round these parts quite soon as I saw something about deadlifts in this program and thats one exercise that intimidates me.. idk why
never mind the fact that while I'm not afraid of the weight room and used to just ignore everyone in it.. its a whole new ball game in this gym full of men with exercises that unnerve me

all that said I'll #suckitup

thanks again!

[freebirdmac]

Great! I'll get a book on foam rolling. I hear people talk about rotator cuff work because they've had shoulder injuries. Is there a sticky that explains what I should be doing before working my shoulders?

Good old arm swings are one warm up. Here's a good writeup from a bb.com contest http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw113.htm

[latebloomingmom]

there's a lot of debate on here on this ya know...like it's a one or the other kind of thing..
I do both..always have.
get your eating figured out
get moving
I wish you good luck

[ldyparadox99]

One other question regarding cardio. Timing. I've read that one shouldn't do a long cardio session immediately before lifting because then you won't be able to lift as much? Currently I do 30 minutes of cardio before my lifting sessions. I could change it to 30 minutes of cardio on non-lifting nights and 10 minutes of cardio as a warm-up before my lifting session. And should I do stretching after lifting? And what's your take on foam rolling? A trainer at the gym said foam roller exercises will help my formerly broken leg recover quicker.

Yesterday was a beautiful day where I live so I decided to jog the 8 some kilometers to the gym. I knew this would affect my lifting, especially since it was squat day. Well, lets just say that this was the first time I increased my jogging to 8k in an hour (most to date has been about 6.5 in about 53 minutes) and I couldn't even squat without the barbell. I went down and couldn't get back up!

Mind, I'm not even close to thinking 20-30 minutes of low to moderate cardio is going to be as extreme as my example. I used to do 15-30 minutes of moderate before my personal training sessions and I really don't think it did more than skipped some warming up I'd otherwise had to do. However, if you're going to go all balls out just before you lift, you may have to beg someone to help you back up! ;-)

[discdoggie]

the third thing is that for all the HIIT whores here; HIIT - if done correctly - is a great stress to the body. combined with a deficit and decreased recovery, HIIT can and does blow people up

Absolutely. But I would gander a vast majority that are claiming 3-4 days of HIIT aren't doing anything close to true HIIT; a 1:1 work/recovery ratio, with the work interval being all out. Really, only true trained athletes are capable of this feat. Your average going-to-the-gym-to-get-fit exerciser is not one of these.

[Miranda]

Absolutely. But I would gander a vast majority that are claiming 3-4 days of HIIT aren't doing anything close to true HIIT; a 1:1 work/recovery ratio, with the work interval being all out. Really, only true trained athletes are capable of this feat. Your average going-to-the-gym-to-get-fit exerciser is not one of these.

yes, i suppose the majority who claim HIIT were doing some sort half-assed cardio and then merely ramped up the average intensity.

also agree about the trained athletes part although there really is no need to do more than 1-2 x week on top of other training . . . and professional sports athletes don't do sprints to lose fat. they do them to improve performance + eat accordingly.

[minxywildkat]

Love your comment. This just answere and classified my questions. Thank you!

Cardio isn't going to get the fat off faster. It may give you another pound over 3 months, but that's it. Fat loss really is about diet and lifting will have more of an effect on fat loss than cardio. So the first thing is to rid yourself of the brainwashing that cardio is needed at all for fat loss. Since you have so much weight to lose you can structure your diet and go for an average of 2 pounds a month (edit: this should say week!) for quite some time. Lifting 3 or more times a week is a no-brainer. Not only to preserve and build muscle mass but also for fat loss.

Cardio is really optional for fat loss, and really heart health as lifting has that covered. It's not optional for those looking for performance increases (i.e. sports). So where does this leave you? What I'd do is start out using it for active recovery from your lifting sessions. Start out 2x week just walking. Either around the neighborhood, or trails, or a treadmill. As you get into better shape you can graduate to more intense cardio like faster walking, or sprints, or cycling, etc. But again, keep in mind that this isn't for fat loss. It's for active recovery and improved performance. Put your max effort into your diet and lifting.