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  1. #1
    Why u do dis? wala's Avatar
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    Rant time - Lazy pros?

    With the AC around the corner it seems there have been a few comments about some bbers and there conditioning (or lack of!)

    This is the same story whenever there are a couple of shows close together. I'll explain.

    Some people are suggesting Beyeke didn't come in as sharp, as he may be trying to peak for the AC?

    My problem here or rather question is why can bbers like Dorian, Branch, Evan and others be ready literally 2-4 weeks out from a show (or at least be in as good a condition as many pros are in who are winning shows) and maintain that for a few weeks and get it exactly right on the day? And then do other shows (such as grand prixs after the O) and still look amazingly conditioned?

    Is it because if you work hard for it, then you get out what you put in... OR is it because they are just gifted in that area?

    This brings me to the point of the thread - Are pros like Beyeke lazy? Could they actually come in peeled for a show if they want and then simply show up again in 2 weeks or whenever and do the same again just like we've seen from countless top pros at the O and then again a week later and sometimes another show after that?

    Or are they simply just not gifted in this area of prep for shows and they're not physically capable of doing so??

    I just get the feeling some pros are goin all out and sacrificing a lot to be in condition and to ensure that they are just right on the day and others are simply dieting down slowly and steadily and hopin to 'peak' just at the time of the show, meaning they're not sacrificing as much and more or less gambling to be just right on the day... And that I feel is where the pros are letting the fans down!

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  2. #2
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    Maintaining a bf% necessary for a show like the Olympia for a few weeks is kind of comical. The reason they come in not looking their best is because the salt/carb/water loading and depletion is an art. Also, since they often come in from out of town, the "supps" they have might be different than the ones they used at home. Brb, at 5% for the next two weeks before the show. Doesn't quite work like that...
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  3. #3
    Why u do dis? wala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mandimeoutof10 View Post
    Maintaining a bf% necessary for a show like the Olympia for a few weeks is kind of comical. The reason they come in not looking their best is because the salt/carb/water loading and depletion is an art. Also, since they often come in from out of town, the "supps" they have might be different than the ones they used at home. Brb, at 5% for the next two weeks before the show. Doesn't quite work like that...
    My point is, whatever the formula is, it can be done, just as Dorian for instance has said many times, he was ready for the show a week or 2 before every show and he then just tweaked things each day to stay on track
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by mandimeoutof10 View Post
    Maintaining a bf% necessary for a show like the Olympia for a few weeks is kind of comical. The reason they come in not looking their best is because the salt/carb/water loading and depletion is an art. Also, since they often come in from out of town, the "supps" they have might be different than the ones they used at home. Brb, at 5% for the next two weeks before the show. Doesn't quite work like that...
    You'll be surprised that it's not that hard to mantain competition bodyfat once you reach it, specially if you are on top of everything. It's alot better to be ready earlier and from then they can cruise into that conditioning and mantain for some weeks.
    It's harder from a psychological standpoint but off course after several weeks your body will start turn on you as well physically.

    To asnwer OP, they are just not dieting hard enough (the ones who come in soft), also there's guys who need alot more time to reach the conditioning level of the likes of Branch, Dorian, etc.

    Guys like Phil or Branch can be ready in 12 weeks, Dexter even less.
    A guy like Beyeke most likely needs 18 or + weeks judging by his conditioning.

    Also how lean you start you prep. is a HUGE factor as well.

    Most guys just don't diet long enough, some are afraid of losing size and don't diet hard enough.
    It's a very fine line and you have to be on top of everything. Heads up to Evan by doing it by himself and be able to get peeled and most importantly full, from a psychological standpoint it's so hard that you don't even begin to realize.

    Sometimes you're full and watery, you gonna think you are behind, you cut carbs/cals drastically, increase cardio to stupid amounts, you end up losing muscle, sometimes you're flat as hell, you think you lost muscle when it's likely you didn't, you increase cals and your progress stales!
    Sometimes you look sharp as f*ck you think you are ahead, when you maybe not...

    A second set of eyes IS A MUST! IMO
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  5. #5
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    Thought provoking thread Wala. IMO Im of the opinion that some pros may well be reluctant to take the 'risk' of coming in ultra conditioned following the spate of kidney issues over the last decade or so-in short, many aren't risking the diuretics that the guys of days past used.

    Which then leads into the fact that even without diuretics the top guys should still come in shredded-which makes me think it may well be laziness with a lot of pros. Take Branch-trains all out (ignoring his form for a second) and comes in dry as a biscuit. Which makes me suspect a few guys are lazy and rely too much on their genes.

    Just my two cents.
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  6. #6
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    A lot of pros have this obsession with coming in big and full. They have a target weight in their head, like "i'm gonna be on stage at 250" and **** like that. People like branch, dorian, evan, and anybody else that comes in ****in peeled every time generally don't give a **** what they weigh, as long as they're in shape.

    Drugs/Diuretics could be another issue as well.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by HollywoodJohn View Post
    You'll be surprised that it's not that hard to mantain competition bodyfat once you reach it, specially if you are on top of everything. It's alot better to be ready earlier and from then they can cruise into that conditioning and mantain for some weeks.
    It's harder from a psychological standpoint but off course after several weeks your body will start turn on you as well physically.

    To asnwer OP, they are just not dieting hard enough (the ones who come in soft), also there's guys who need alot more time to reach the conditioning level of the likes of Branch, Dorian, etc.

    Guys like Phil or Branch can be ready in 12 weeks, Dexter even less.
    A guy like Beyeke most likely needs 18 or + weeks judging by his conditioning.

    Also how lean you start you prep. is a HUGE factor as well.

    Most guys just don't diet long enough, some are afraid of losing size and don't diet hard enough.
    It's a very fine line and you have to be on top of everything. Heads up to Evan by doing it by himself and be able to get peeled and most importantly full, from a psychological standpoint it's so hard that you don't even begin to realize.

    Sometimes you're full and watery, you gonna think you are behind, you cut carbs/cals drastically, increase cardio to stupid amounts, you end up losing muscle, sometimes you're flat as hell, you think you lost muscle when it's likely you didn't, you increase cals and your progress stales!
    Sometimes you look sharp as f*ck you think you are ahead, when you maybe not...

    A second set of eyes IS A MUST! IMO
    I think a lot of what youre saying is true, but much more relevant to natural athletes than these guys. I think at this point, they're all pretty much the same bodyfat (although I agree Beyeke may have had a bit more than others), and the majority of detail is going to come from dryness and fullness

    Ive spoken to TTimmerman about this before, and he seemed to think it was a lot to do with the drug side of things. Remember that a lot of Amateur guys are coming in diced as fuk! There are certain things they are or arent doing that apparently would make a big difference.
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  8. #8
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    Best conditioning comes as a result of the maximal engagement in what's best to achieve that condition. It's not the level of effort alone that counts, but the knowledge for doing the right things the best way.
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    Originally Posted by jiveinhere View Post
    I think a lot of what youre saying is true, but much more relevant to natural athletes than these guys. I think at this point, they're all pretty much the same bodyfat (although I agree Beyeke may have had a bit more than others), and the majority of detail is going to come from dryness and fullness

    Ive spoken to TTimmerman about this before, and he seemed to think it was a lot to do with the drug side of things. Remember that a lot of Amateur guys are coming in diced as fuk! There are certain things they are or arent doing that apparently would make a big difference.
    Well, i know some "enhanced" bodybuilders (competitive) on my gym. One guy tend to get shredded but... has this obsession with losing mass and coming in full so he doesn't cut the test. and HGH like most guys do at 3 weeks out, which makes them retain water, specially the test., i read that the HGH can just be reduced at that stage of the prep.... Always watery on stage.

    There's not much to it, they (enhanced) need to cut some stuff weeks out and add some stuff like AI's, orals like Halo, etc. That's what will make you or break you on stage in the "enhanced" side of things. Off course you have to be on a low-enough bodyfat.

    But it makes sense that is why Alberto Nunez, Doug Miller, etc get alot more dry on stage than pretty much all the IFBB pro BB'ers, they don't have to mess with stuff that will make them retain water.
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    Who was beyekes prep coach?

    Makes a difference imo
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    Originally Posted by schabowy90 View Post
    Who was beyekes prep coach?

    Makes a difference imo
    Hany Rambod... Hany is quite an hit or miss guy.
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  12. #12
    Why u do dis? wala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by schabowy90 View Post
    Who was beyekes prep coach?

    Makes a difference imo
    It will do if he's listening to and doing what they say..

    But who was Dorians prep coach? Himself. Same with Evan. I dunno bout Branch?
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by HollywoodJohn View Post
    Well, i know some "enhanced" bodybuilders (competitive) on my gym. One guy tend to get shredded but... has this obsession with losing mass and coming in full so he doesn't cut the test. and HGH like most guys do at 3 weeks out, which makes them retain water, specially the test., i read that the HGH can just be reduced at that stage of the prep.... Always watery on stage.

    There's not much to it, they (enhanced) need to cut some stuff weeks out and add some stuff like AI's, orals like Halo, etc. That's what will make you or break you on stage in the "enhanced" side of things. Off course you have to be on a low-enough bodyfat.

    But it makes sense that is why Alberto Nunez, Doug Miller, etc get alot more dry on stage than pretty much all the IFBB pro BB'ers, they don't have to mess with stuff that will make them retain water.
    pretty much what TTimmerman was saying about the IFBB guys vs the Amateurs



    Its a shame really that Beyeke won, because people are starting to favour fullness over condition, and its just a vicious cycle. There will be more and more guys showing up like he did if that kind of condition keeps getting rewarded
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    Originally Posted by wala View Post
    It will do if he's listening to and doing what they say..

    But who was Dorians prep coach? Himself. Same with Evan. I dunno bout Branch?
    Branch is with George Farah since the 2008 ASC. I think Farah is the best IMO but i'm a bit biased because a friend of mine preps. with him all year on both on & off-season.
    His diets seem very plausible...
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    Originally Posted by HollywoodJohn View Post
    Branch is with George Farah since the 2008 ASC. I think Farah is the best IMO but i'm a bit biased because a friend of mine preps. with him all year on both on & off-season.
    His diets seem very plausible...
    Not biased, I agree. Think of the past. Kai, Marius dohne, Craig Richardson I think last year in the ny pro, I know there's so many more that came in awesome I can't think of.

    Rhodden, Branch obviously.

    Does Jose Raymond have a prep coach? He's always peeeeeeled like branch.


    But I agree some guys in the past who have aced their conditioning makes me think...But there's not many that have done that. It seems to me like Dorian and Evan take logical approaches. I don't think there's anything secretive to their diets.
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by schabowy90 View Post
    Not biased, I agree. Think of the past. Kai, Marius dohne, Craig Richardson I think last year in the ny pro, I know there's so many more that came in awesome I can't think of.

    Rhodden, Branch obviously.

    Does Jose Raymond have a prep coach? He's always peeeeeeled like branch.


    But I agree some guys in the past who have aced their conditioning makes me think...But there's not many that have done that. It seems to me like Dorian and Evan take logical approaches. I don't think there's anything secretive to their diets.
    Raimond is with George Farah as well. There's a certain look his atheletes obtain (when they are not off) but i won't go into detail as to why but he's a very knowledgeable guy specially about the drugs. Kind of a bro when it comes to nutrition but his approach is good, high carbs, not much cardio.
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    Originally Posted by HollywoodJohn View Post
    Raimond is with George Farah as well. There's a certain look his atheletes obtain (when they are not off) but i won't go into detail as to why but he's a very knowledgeable guy specially about the drugs. Kind of a bro when it comes to nutrition but his approach is good, high carbs, not much cardio.

    Interesting. It's gotta be the drugs. Throughout the 90s and even today I don't think a lot of pros can get shredded on high carbs.

    Do his principles seem legitimate for a natural BB in your opinion?
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    i dont think there is a simple answer to your complex question, so many variables at play when it comes to peaking.
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    WOOOAH WORDS THAT KILL JanesLastResort's Avatar
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    Beyeke's still prepping for the AC. Evan made the mistake of peaking for the flex last year and then missing his mark at the arnold. I assume Beyeke went into the flex pro knowing he'll place high at the very worst while still being able to peak for the arnold accordingly. No matter what the "supplements" peaking for 2 consequtive shows especcially when they're so close is hard.
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  20. #20
    Registered User mrusa85's Avatar
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    I don't think it's fair to Beyeke to say is lazy because he wasn't as dry as he should really should have been. He's still figuring things out and hasn't been competing with that amount of muscle for very long. He's 30 pounds heavier on stage than he was a couple years ago. That's a big difference when manamging water balance.

    As far as other pros having it all figured out like Evan and Branch... neither one looked the same in their back-to-back shows last year either. Evan smoothed out for the Arnold and Branch didn't look as good at the British Grand Prix. And Wolf got better at each show last year.

    Most of the pros look different from the judging to the finals -- in the same day.

    Obviously it isn't that easy to come in dry and full otherwise more of them would be doing it.

    And about high carbs... when I was in my teens and early 20s I could get ripped with carbs, high protein and low fats. It doesn't work like that any more for me. The carbs have to be kept really low. I can't say from my own experience if drugs would change that or not.
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    Originally Posted by schabowy90 View Post
    Interesting. It's gotta be the drugs. Throughout the 90s and even today I don't think a lot of pros can get shredded on high carbs.

    Do his principles seem legitimate for a natural BB in your opinion?
    Yes, it's his approach to the drugs in those last weeks.

    For natties you wont need as much protein and as long as you are in a caloric deficit, you'll benefict from high carbs, plus it's good to stay with the cardio low as much as possible, so in a sense yes, his nutritional approach does work for natties as well.
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  22. #22
    Why u do dis? wala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrusa85 View Post
    And about high carbs... when I was in my teens and early 20s I could get ripped with carbs, high protein and low fats. It doesn't work like that any more for me. The carbs have to be kept really low. I can't say from my own experience if drugs would change that or not.
    Same story here.
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    A little off topic sorry wala... but fuk my life dieting is hard. No strength, cravings 23 hrs a day and dead sic of cardio lol
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    Why u do dis? wala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FAN0FdaSport View Post
    A little off topic sorry wala... but fuk my life dieting is hard. No strength, cravings 23 hrs a day and dead sic of cardio lol
    No worries. I'm gonna have to start getting strict on my diet too, not looking forward to it one bit.
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    Originally Posted by mandimeoutof10 View Post
    Maintaining a bf% necessary for a show like the Olympia for a few weeks is kind of comical. The reason they come in not looking their best is because the salt/carb/water loading and depletion is an art. Also, since they often come in from out of town, the "supps" they have might be different than the ones they used at home. Brb, at 5% for the next two weeks before the show. Doesn't quite work like that...
    I don't know what the pros do about "sups" but I wouldn't imagine they would try something new a few days or weeks before the big show. It's like changing your diet last second... not a good idea IMO but hell idk..
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    Agree with you on some points.
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    Saw lazy bodybuilders, expected Paul Dillet discussion
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    Cutler's forearms went the same way as Branch's - BOTH been training a long time, BOTH near the end of their career's, BOTH forearms and BOTH athletes have the streamlined forearm look - Is this CAUSED BY INJURY ........OR GENETICS (WHITE MANS FOREARMS). If it were injury alone then its highly unlickly that both forarms would match. - RommyRomboid
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