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  1. #1
    Abiad's Army DavisForman's Avatar
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    What is with the judging inconsistencies?

    Before I even make my point, I should say first that I had it pretty close between Lionel, Fouad and Ben. I thought it was pretty much apples and oranges for all 3. So I didn't have a problem with how they placed looking at this show on it's own. But comparing these placings to placings of shows last year, I don't understand where the judges are coming up with these results.

    Do any of you remember last year's Europa Battle of Champions? The top three were Troy Alves, Marc Lavoie, and Ben White. They also happened to be the most in-shape guys at the show. The judges seemed to be favoring condition, to the point that they practically ignored all the other factors. Guys like Will Harris and Toney Freeman, who were not quite as hard but significantly bigger and more proportioned, were shafted big time.

    And then at the Flex, it's like they did a full 180. The guys in the best condition, Fouad and Eduardo, are placed behind bigger, softer, and more disproportionate competitors.

    Again, not complaining about the results of this show, I'm just wondering how they can justify these placings when they have made such radically different decisions in the past. It's like they love red today, but will love blue tomorrow. I'm not seeing any consistency in the judging.
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  2. #2
    still natural featureless's Avatar
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    I have no idea what they are thinking. Too me Beyeke looked to smooth to beat out fouad but i guess that is just my opinion
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  3. #3
    Gorilla Muscle balls2wall's Avatar
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    Different judges perhaps? Also beyeke was only soft from the back, from the front he looked pretty diced.
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  4. #4
    Registered User realistromeo's Avatar
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    Beyeke looked smaller but he looked streamlined round decent condition, good lines,shape. (injured left lat much?)
    Fouad on the other hand WAS in condition, but i dont like his shape (arms) and his abdominals looked washed, his physique looks flat compared to the rest.
    Paulksi looked great aside from his weak front double.
    Rhoden could have taken this is if he was sharper.

    hard one to judge, i have no problems with this.
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  5. #5
    still natural featureless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by realistromeo View Post
    Beyeke looked smaller but he looked streamlined round decent condition, good lines,shape. (injured left lat much?)
    Fouad on the other hand WAS in condition, but i dont like his shape (arms) and his abdominals looked washed, his physique looks flat compared to the rest.
    Paulksi looked great aside from his weak front double.
    Rhoden could have taken this is if he was sharper.

    hard one to judge, i have no problems with this.
    Yeah, you're right. very difficult one to judge.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by balls2wall View Post
    Different judges perhaps? Also beyeke was only soft from the back, from the front he looked pretty diced.
    Agreed. From the front he's dope.







    He could definitely be drier all around but maybe he will pull a Wolf from 2011 and come in much better at the Arnold. Beyeke with another 3-4lbs dropped will be sick.
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  7. #7
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    Lionel's lower body from behind is soft, bad hammy separation, and Wolf calfs.

    He lost the toronto show to a guy who dieted but by some miracle beat thiis lineup...
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  8. #8
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    It was really a mixed bag.

    Beyeke had everything bar the conditioning.

    Pakulski was huge and shredded but FDB and RDB were quite weak.

    Fouad was flat and didn't have the 'WOW' factor Ben and Lionel had.

    Rhoden was probably the most complete factoring in conditioning as well. He should feel a little hard done by.

    Now Eduardo could make a strong case. He was ripped to diddles. His lower body is slightly overshadowed by his upper but he should not have been placed fifth.
    A pattern in the chaos.
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  9. #9
    still natural featureless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by flangmasterj View Post
    It was really a mixed bag.

    Beyeke had everything bar the conditioning.

    Pakulski was huge and shredded but FDB and RDB were quite weak.

    Fouad was flat and didn't have the 'WOW' factor Ben and Lionel had.

    Rhoden was probably the most complete factoring in conditioning as well. He should feel a little hard done by.

    Now Eduardo could make a strong case. He was ripped to diddles. His lower body is slightly overshadowed by his upper but he should not have been placed fifth.
    i agree with most of what you said. Not sure who should have won lol.

    Not a fan of pakulski - too many standout bodyparts hurt his flow but he seemed to be in the best shape.

    I have gone from being a beyeke fan to not (not sure what it is - just seems to narrow all round or something. needs more sweep in his back and wider shoulders I think. and seems to lack depth in his lower half from the back).

    I like Fouad's look best overall but he definately did not have the WOW factor. He is not that sort of bodybuilder but I cant deny that he has had some WOW factor in the past.

    Correa's conditioning was increadible but I can see how he falls behind the other guys. doesnt have the same thickness.
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  10. #10
    Speaking the kings. lovebbing's Avatar
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    inconsistencies?

    the judging has always been pretty consistent..... Why do people constantly complain how bigger isnt always better? because the IFBB has pretty consistently awarded the bigger guys in the show, just so long as they arent horrible proportioned or extremely out of shape.

    history shows this.

    the only judging that i personally remember as being outside the norm or not consistent, were some of the really small Europa or European Grand Prix shows.
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  11. #11
    still natural featureless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lovebbing View Post
    inconsistencies?

    the judging has always been pretty consistent..... Why do people constantly complain how bigger isnt always better? because the IFBB has pretty consistently awarded the bigger guys in the show, just so long as they arent horrible proportioned or extremely out of shape.

    history shows this.



    the only judging that i personally remember as being outside the norm or not consistent, were some of the really small Europa or European Grand Prix shows.
    then why is phil heath mr olympia?
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  12. #12
    The Natty Warrior RepItOut's Avatar
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    I cant believe how much Beyeke looks like Kai .. or is it just me lol
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by RepItOut View Post
    I cant believe how much Beyeke looks like Kai .. or is it just me lol
    They are both derived from African genes, thats the only similarity I can see, even if kai cut his hair they would not look the same. IMO.
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  14. #14
    ROMERATOR ROMMYromboid's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    Before I even make my point, I should say first that I had it pretty close between Lionel, Fouad and Ben. I thought it was pretty much apples and oranges for all 3. So I didn't have a problem with how they placed looking at this show on it's own. But comparing these placings to placings of shows last year, I don't understand where the judges are coming up with these results.

    Do any of you remember last year's Europa Battle of Champions? The top three were Troy Alves, Marc Lavoie, and Ben White. They also happened to be the most in-shape guys at the show. The judges seemed to be favoring condition, to the point that they practically ignored all the other factors. Guys like Will Harris and Toney Freeman, who were not quite as hard but significantly bigger and more proportioned, were shafted big time.

    And then at the Flex, it's like they did a full 180. The guys in the best condition, Fouad and Eduardo, are placed behind bigger, softer, and more disproportionate competitors.

    Again, not complaining about the results of this show, I'm just wondering how they can justify these placings when they have made such radically different decisions in the past. It's like they love red today, but will love blue tomorrow. I'm not seeing any consistency in the judging.
    Agree with all you said, IMO there is only one logical answer ------> Politics.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by flangmasterj View Post
    It was really a mixed bag.

    Beyeke had everything bar the conditioning.

    Pakulski was huge and shredded but FDB and RDB were quite weak.

    Fouad was flat and didn't have the 'WOW' factor Ben and Lionel had.

    Rhoden was probably the most complete factoring in conditioning as well. He should feel a little hard done by.

    Now Eduardo could make a strong case. He was ripped to diddles. His lower body is slightly overshadowed by his upper but he should not have been placed fifth.
    great post
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  16. #16
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    At this lower level they all have major and minor flaws so the judging won't be so accurate. It's not like at the Olympia where you have Phil, Jay, Kai, Branch, Dex, all guys packed with muscles on good frames fighting for the top places and if one of them comes slightly out of shape it's over for him.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by DavisForman View Post
    Before I even make my point, I should say first that I had it pretty close between Lionel, Fouad and Ben. I thought it was pretty much apples and oranges for all 3. So I didn't have a problem with how they placed looking at this show on it's own. But comparing these placings to placings of shows last year, I don't understand where the judges are coming up with these results.

    Do any of you remember last year's Europa Battle of Champions? The top three were Troy Alves, Marc Lavoie, and Ben White. They also happened to be the most in-shape guys at the show. The judges seemed to be favoring condition, to the point that they practically ignored all the other factors. Guys like Will Harris and Toney Freeman, who were not quite as hard but significantly bigger and more proportioned, were shafted big time.

    And then at the Flex, it's like they did a full 180. The guys in the best condition, Fouad and Eduardo, are placed behind bigger, softer, and more disproportionate competitors.

    Again, not complaining about the results of this show, I'm just wondering how they can justify these placings when they have made such radically different decisions in the past. It's like they love red today, but will love blue tomorrow. I'm not seeing any consistency in the judging.
    Id hardly say fouad has better proportions than bekele....
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by flangmasterj View Post
    It was really a mixed bag.

    Beyeke had everything bar the conditioning.

    Pakulski was huge and shredded but FDB and RDB were quite weak.

    Fouad was flat and didn't have the 'WOW' factor Ben and Lionel had.

    Rhoden was probably the most complete factoring in conditioning as well. He should feel a little hard done by.

    Now Eduardo could make a strong case. He was ripped to diddles. His lower body is slightly overshadowed by his upper but he should not have been placed fifth.
    I agree but I want to add one thing both Correa and Fouad had conditioning over other. I had Fouad 1 and Correa 2 nd
    Grainy hardcore religious slabs of thick dense muscle. So grainy that it hurts your eyes
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    Registered User Jeddore's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ROMMYromboid View Post
    They are both derived from African genes, thats the only similarity I can see, even if kai cut his hair they would not look the same. IMO.
    no, i can see it too, the smile, cheeks, chin
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    Why u do dis? wala's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jeddore View Post
    no, i can see it too, the smile, cheeks, chin
    Yup, that sort of fat face even though they're dieted.

    As for the topic, I've learned to accept that the judges do what the fuk they like, this is the IFBB.

    Shame there isn't clear, measureable way for someone to win, same way in a race, who ever crosses the line first wins, no judging to say someone else should have won. But that's bbing for you
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    Registered User BlackNumero's Avatar
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    Since Beyeke got first, hes qualified for the Olympia. So unless one of Wolf, Branch, or Evan really come in off, hes got 4th at best IMO. Just because I think judges are going to do their best to make sure all of the "elites" get an invite to the Olympia. Same with Dexter, potentially (since he already qualified).
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  22. #22
    ncottee sculpt07's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlackNumero View Post
    Since Beyeke got first, hes qualified for the Olympia. So unless one of Wolf, Branch, or Evan really come in off, hes got 4th at best IMO. Just because I think judges are going to do their best to make sure all of the "elites" get an invite to the Olympia. Same with Dexter, potentially (since he already qualified).
    Yeah can't see him making top 8 this year lucky for top 10 if he competes.
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    Originally Posted by Gorky88 View Post
    I agree but I want to add one thing both Correa and Fouad had conditioning over other. I had Fouad 1 and Correa 2 nd
    idk Fouad looked flat to me, Correa was hard as nails and was fuller then Fouad

    I think Pacman should have taken it.. better size, conditioning then Beyeke..
    Not natty
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    Originally Posted by NaturalLoco View Post
    I think Pacman should have taken it.. better size, conditioning then Beyeke..
    I thought so too. Not well proportioned, but he was the biggest guy on stage and probably the best conditioned of the top 4.
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    Definitely was very impressed with Pakulski.
    For starters he was always one of my favourites, not the most prettiest physique but he's one of the freakiest guys on the circuit. His conditioning wasn't as good as Correa's or Sizov's but none of the less it was PRETTY GOOD conditioning, better than Fouad's & most definitely much better than Beyeke's and Rhoden.
    Size wise he was the biggest guy as well, he certainly should have won the show!

    For the ASC it will certainly be interesting if Beyeke can drop those last pounds of fat that he is still holding. I'm also curious to see if Ben can break that top 6 at the ASC.
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  26. #26
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    I get it that Beyeke has tremendous momentum behind him and he really is going to be a top 5 threat for the O within a year. Tremendous upside BUT this multi million dollar contest set up for a guy whos not even trying to peak for this particular show? You're going to award the guy whos looking forward behond this show that has so much effort behind it? Your show can lose popularity if your judges pick a guy peaking for another show over a guy who nailed his conditioning(Pak) specifically for this show.

    Yes Beyeke has more flow than Pak but Pak was trained specifically to win that particular show. If I was a judge judging for a particular show I'd award the guy whos going for his best physique for that particular show rather than some arrogant soon to be elite bber who might not even know the name of the show because hes more concerned with the arnold.

    Judges should make statements for the continueing agenda of that particular show to ensure they always have a high money show by awarding for that show and that show only and if you dont peak for OUR show then you wont win.
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    There is defiantly some inconsistencies in the smaller shows.
    It's the diet, training and sleeping on a regular consistent basis that makes a champion.

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  28. #28
    ▬▬▬.ஜ۩۞۩ஜ.▬▬▬ tsiparlanaeht's Avatar
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    If anything this showed me how far behind these guys are from the top 6 at the O, the upper echelon especially the top 3 like Phil/Kai/Branch etc. They are on a whole nother level to these guys.
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    Originally Posted by tsiparlanaeht View Post
    If anything this showed me how far behind these guys are from the top 6 at the O, the upper echelon especially the top 3 like Phil/Kai etc. They are on a whole nother level to these guys.
    fixed
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  30. #30
    ▬▬▬.ஜ۩۞۩ஜ.▬▬▬ tsiparlanaeht's Avatar
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    Cheeky mate lol.

    Agreed though , if Phil/Kai is on these guys won't even be close.

    They won't even need to be compared, it will only be a Phil/Kai comparison like how it was meant to be in 2011.
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