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  1. #1
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Bet: To lose 5% body fat in 4 months

    Good morning all,

    I recently took a bet with a good friend in an effort for us to both dramatically reduce our body fat. There is no money involved but the loser will be subject to an embarrassing act. The bet is straightforward; we're both 5'11'', I'm 80kg whereas he's 77. I'm 15.7% BF and he's 14.9%. The bet started yesterday and we will have our final check up on the 8th June. Our fat loss will be calculated as a % loss and obviously the bigger % is the winner. My friend would be far more knowledgeable than me in exercise and nutrition but according to him and other knowledgeable friends, it's going to be slightly tougher for him as he has less to lose. The 5% in the title is only a personal aim and I honestly don't know how achievable that is but he was honest with me in saying that he expects to finish up around 11-12% so it would be nice to win the bet and actually finish with a lower BF %!

    Anyway, the point of this thread is to keep a log of progress and also hopefully get some advice on how I can improve my diet/workouts. I think my diet is relatively clean on the whole and the leaks are obvious:

    Breakfast (8:30am): 2 or 3 scrambled eggs.
    Lunch (2pm): Chicken/fish/turkey/steak with veg (& spuds/rice/pasta half of the week)
    Dinner (7pm): Chicken/fish/turkey/steak with veg & soy sauce (possibly a small amount of cheese too). Regular veg I eat are brocolli cauliflower and corn, with peppers and chillis occassionally.
    supper/Snack (10pm): I usually smoke a joint after dinner to unwind. This results in a snack which is usually a bowl of cereal.

    So, I think if I took out the late night snack this diet would be good, maybe not good enough, but a start. I can definitely cut out eating after dinner if this is the best option, or would an alternative snack be better? Is the 3 meals a day optimal or should I be having minor snacks between those 3 meals and no late night snack (e.g. carrot sticks around 11am and possibly a rice cake with salmon around 4pm)?

    Obviously this bet will come down to diet first and foremost. I hope to work out 4/5 times a week too. Usually my work outs involve a mixture of pull ups, dips, bench press, incline bench, lat pull downs, one legged row and cardio. Cardio I can't run atm as my ankle is a bit damaged but I can row/cycle/cross train. Again I don't know what training would be optimal but I'll enquire with a worker at the gym. I'd imagine HIIT on any of the machines would be most suitable but am open to correction. Would ye advise completely ditching the weights for this period or at least making it 3:1 or 4:1 in terms of cardio workouts to weight sessions?

    Clearly this isn't going to be easy but having the challenge put to you by a close friend should keep us both motivated throughout. I appreciate any feedback on this with regard to the nutrition and exercise. Hopefully I'll have positive regular updates. Initial plan is to get BF checked every 2 weeks from here in.
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  2. #2
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    that diet looks like shiit.

    GO back to the stickies and read it all over again.

    like this one
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
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  3. #3
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by swole-striation View Post
    that diet looks like shiit.

    GO back to the stickies and read it all over again.
    Cheers for the link, according to the Katch-McArdle method I require 2730 kcals a day so reducing that to 2200 kcals should be what I'm aiming for with 660 kcals coming from protein, 880 from carbs and 660 from fats? I'm pretty confused over this as I thought reducing carbs was pretty important in weight loss.
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    I just joined here mate a the stickies did help so would suggest having a read through them to clear a few things up e.g TDEE
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  5. #5
    Rep Power: 401254 swole-striation's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaptHook View Post
    Cheers for the link, according to the Katch-McArdle method I require 2730 kcals a day so reducing that to 2200 kcals should be what I'm aiming for with 660 kcals coming from protein, 880 from carbs and 660 from fats? I'm pretty confused over this as I thought reducing carbs was pretty important in weight loss.
    Try not to cut out carbs straight away in your diet, slowly taper off in a few weeks. Reducing carbs is a way to lose weight but what matters is, calories in = calories out.
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  6. #6
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    OK I've had a look at the stickies and through quite a few threads and I'm still lost to be honest. It's preached to eat on the basis of 40-40-30, then others eat no carbs, some alternate depending on workout or not, others are in ketosis eating carbs once a week and little fat. To be honest I'm more confused than ever but having read a number of threads I'm considering either going into ketosis or having a clean diet of 3 meals a day all based on the 40-40-30 and obviously less than 2200 calories. It just seems that these two clash heavily with one involving carbs in every meal and the other involving carbs once a week! I can easily not eat carbs, that's no problem but I struggle to see how both can be a success? I'd imagine ketosis is a short term thing that maybe would be more beneficial for me.
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  7. #7
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    OK I have an Excel spreadsheet done up with the calories and carbs/protein/fats breakdown for chicken/turkey/salmon/steak fillets, rice, red/green peppers, baby corn, brocolli, cauliflower, celery, lettuce, pistachio nuts, and natural peanut butter. So obviously the bulk of the calories will come from the lean protein meat, rice, peanut butter and pistachio. I noticed that most threads were people were successfully losing weight (not by drastic measures) they followed the macros stringently. So I'm going to do that for 2 weeks and see what results are like. I have the following questions that I'd greatly appreciate answered:

    - Is the 40-30-40 split of the macros the optimal or would something like 55 p - 25 c - 20 f be more beneficial?
    - Carbs everyday or just workout days?
    - Is 3 meals OK if they follow the macros perfectly?

    I'm just going to put what I would consider an ideal breakfast based on the above? Will post lunch and dinner if someone tells me I'm doing this right

    Breakfast: 2 scrambled eggs (88kcals: 0 carbs, 12g protein, 8 grams fat), 1 tablespoon peanut butter (100kcals: 3g carbs, 5g protein, 8 grams fat). This looks low on carbs so possibly an apple too (20g carbs) or banana (27g carbs)? Or either could be had as a snack before lunch.
    Total breakdown (with banana): 293kcals; 30g carbs, 18g protein, 16g fat.
    Total breakdown (without banana): 188kcals; 3g carbs, 17g protein, 16 grams fat.

    Just looking at that now I can see that if the protein was brought up to 30g with the banana breakfast while keeping the kcals below 400 it would be a pretty ideal breakfast and another egg does that perfectly (may need a fat oil tablet to bump the fat up)!

    I'll follow the same approach for lunch and dinner if someone can confirm this is the best method. Would suck to start eating a lot of carbs again and put on weight!
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  8. #8
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Head still all over the place regarding nutrition ha. Just don't know if I should go for the diet I've been on lately as shown below, or use the same as below but add carbs to lunch for workout day, or go into macro mode having the split perfect in every meal.

    Yesterday: breakfast was 3 eggs, lunch was 1.5 chicken fillets with 2 tbls olive oil & 100g of brocolli & cauliflower, dinner was 1 fillet of salmon with 2 tbls olive oil & 70g of brocolli & cauliflower.

    Workout:
    Dumbell bench press: 17.5kg x 8 x 2 sets, 25kg x 8 x 4 sets
    Incline dumbell bench: 17.5kg x 8 x 2 sets, 20kg x 8 x 4 sets
    Row machine: full strength 250 meters then 1 min rest x 10
    Cross trainer: 1km 15 mins
    Bicycle: 6km in 10mins
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  9. #9
    c++ positive krete77's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaptHook View Post

    - Is the 40-30-40 split of the macros the optimal or would something like 55 p - 25 c - 20 f be more beneficial? NO
    - Carbs everyday or just workout days? your choice
    - Is 3 meals OK if they follow the macros perfectly? you can have 1 or 6 a day it doesn't matter

    I'm just going to put what I would consider an ideal breakfast based on the above? Will post lunch and dinner if someone tells me I'm doing this right



    Breakfast: 2 scrambled eggs (88kcals: 0 carbs, 12g protein, 8 grams fat), 1 tablespoon peanut butter (100kcals: 3g carbs, 5g protein, 8 grams fat). This looks low on carbs so possibly an apple too (20g carbs) or banana (27g carbs)? Or either could be had as a snack before lunch.
    Total breakdown (with banana): 293kcals; 30g carbs, 18g protein, 16g fat.
    Total breakdown (without banana): 188kcals; 3g carbs, 17g protein, 16 grams fat.
    Your diet looks to robotic and a pain in the arse. Did you read the stickie that was provided in here? You need to calculate your maintenance calories first. now this isn't some magical number, its just a starting point. eat at it for a couple weeks and if your weight doesn't change, then you know your in the right ballpark.

    Now if you want to drop body fat, you can eat 10-20% less of your maintenance; so for example, if your maintenance level was around 2500cals a day, 20% is 500, so eat 2000 cals a day to drop body fat. Make sense?

    You don't need to hit your macros EXACTLY, as people stress in here. Just make sure you get in the ballpark, with protein being the most important one.

    now you need to know your body fat % to use the formula. just post up a pic with your shirt off here asking for body fat % advice, and just take the average of all the responses you get. or you could measure your waist, and follow this link; http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/ <-- it is a great resource

    remember, this is in KG not LBS.

    Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
    BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

    I'll use me as an example; my LBM = 164lbs. I got this number by doing this:

    My weight: 197lbs;
    my BF %: 17%

    multiply 197 x 17% = 33lbs. Subtract 33lbs (which is all the FAT weight) from my total weight, and there is my LBM (Lean body mass weight) = 164lbs.

    just remember to multiply your BMR by an activity factor (i'm guessing 1.2 is probably good for you) and there's your maintenance.'

    good luck, i'll subscribe to this thread and watch your progress. you seem sincere so i'll try to answer any questions you have
    |USN|POKER|C.S.|C++|http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147088453|
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  10. #10
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Hey mate thanks very much for the reply. According to the Katch-McArdle method I require 2730 kcals for maintenance so my plan was to reduce that to 2200kcals. I got my BK checked a week ago at 15.7% My LBM is 149 lbs based on this.

    Appreciate all the info there and I'm happy to hear that the macros don't have to be spot on but I'm wondering is it better to follow a diet including the macros or would I be better to have 0 carbs all week and 1 day of re-carbing which is pretty much what I've done the last few days. It would just feel like cheating to go back eating carbs now haha. Really it boils down to which one is more suitable to a 3 month fat loss diet? I'm also considering the in-between where I have carbs with my lunch on workout days as I workout around 6pm then could have a dinner with just protein and fats.
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  11. #11
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    Your making it complicated..why are you trying to carb cycle? Are you an experienced lifter, and are prepping for shows? I'm guessing not since your asking newb questions, so my advice; follow the guidelines laid out in the Stickies for calculating nutrient requirements. Like I said, if your cutting, just make sure to keep your protein intake high, meet your fat requirements, and fill in the rest with whatever. I'm thinking your guessing carbs will make you keep fat , or get fat, whatever...which is simply not true.

    Eat the same every day, stay in a deficit, lift heavy and be consistent, and over time the results will show. Your body simply cannot do anything else but improve.
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  12. #12
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Ya spot on mate just associating carbs with high calories and thus fat to be honest. I think I just got into a world of confusion in my head with all the different logs I skimmed through and so many different people advocating different things. Tomorrow I'll post what I've eaten that day based on 2000-2200 kcal intake and covering the macros. So, I see 40-30-40 is the recommended, would you make any changes to that?

    I reckon I'll use fish oil tablets to get the majority of fat required. I've heard there's ~20 kcals and ~2 grams fat in most pills so would it be alright to just have one of these with each meal?

    Originally Posted by krete77 View Post
    Your making it complicated..why are you trying to carb cycle? Are you an experienced lifter, and are prepping for shows? I'm guessing not since your asking newb questions, so my advice; follow the guidelines laid out in the Stickies for calculating nutrient requirements. Like I said, if your cutting, just make sure to keep your protein intake high, meet your fat requirements, and fill in the rest with whatever. I'm thinking your guessing carbs will make you keep fat , or get fat, whatever...which is simply not true.

    Eat the same every day, stay in a deficit, lift heavy and be consistent, and over time the results will show. Your body simply cannot do anything else but improve.
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    Alright brother, listen up, and listen up good. I"ve stated this twice now in my previous replies. I can only lead a horse to water, know what I'm saying?

    RATIOS ARE NOT THE WAY TO A PROPER DIET.

    Goto this link; http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

    Scroll past the first part where you've figured out your calorie requirement for overall nutrition, and get into the section where it tells you how many grams of fat per lb you need, how many grams of protein per lb...etc;

    Using YOUR numbers, calculate how many grams of each of ^^ those you need per day. Then, once you get the numbers your looking for, create your diet/meal plan based around those numbers..

    So, heres an example; Say I'm eating 2400cals/day whilst cutting.

    A breakdown of that for my minimum requirements of fats/proteins might look like: 180g/day of protein; 120g/day of fats;

    So from here, I' will make sure that before the end of the day, I've accumulated close to those amounts...which totals somewhere around 1800 calories, so I can just meet my 2400calorie limit with more carbs, more fats, or more proteins, it doesn't really matter.

    THe whole point of reaching those numbers is muscle sparing and hormonal regulation. (proteins and fats respectively). Carbs are there for energy, but the general consensus is you dont really need them.
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    **** I feel like an idiot :/ Will get on this right away thanks dude!
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    Right so the following is required everyday:

    Protein 1.25-1.5 grams per kg = 100-120g of protein
    Fats: 1-2 grams per kg = 80-160g fats

    So I'm not going to be too strict on the protein; it'll fluctuate between 100 and 120 daily but I'll try keep the fats stable at around 120g.

    So at the minute breakfast is 3 eggs (18g protein, 12g fats, 180 kcals). I think I'll add in a fish oil tablet every morning which should be around 20kcals and 2 grams fats so a 200kcal breakfast.

    Lunch at the minute we're looking at 1.5 chicken (285 kcals, 39g protein, 13g fat) along with some assorted veg which I will get details of tomorrow. We'll round the calories up to 350 here as it will be a relatively large portion. Will pour some olive oil on it post-cooking depending on nutrients in this, or another fat tablet.

    For dinner we're looking at the same/1 steak (192 kcals, 28g protein, 8.5g fat)/salmon (100kcals, 19g protein, 3g fat) along with some assorted veg again.

    That accumulates to 800 kcals so I'm pretty confident I got my measurements wrong. I'm working off 100g being a decent sized fillet so I'll have to get the scales out and figure everything out properly. There is no way in hell I've been surviving on 800 kcals the last few days.

    Will buy a scales and tonight and really get this moving properly!
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    Ok, so that looks a little better. Your right with fats; It wouldn't hurt to increase your protein a little more to say 150g a day but it probably won't make any difference anyways.

    With your diet plan, you won't be meeting your required calories for the day, and that's not a good thing. Make sure your hitting your 2200 calories per day. If you eat at such a low deficit like 800cals, your going to be in some serious trouble later on down the road. Do it right the first time.

    So, I'll give you a few other ways to get your protein up, since getting protein intake high daily can be a pain.

    - cottage cheese; at almost 30g per cup serving, its a great way to get in a good amount of protein;
    - chobani yogurts; they got 16g per cup, and taste great.
    - Eggs; you got that already; egg whites can help also, since they don't contain the fat breakdown, you can easily get 25g from 1 cup egg whites for <100cals;
    - steaks, hamburg, turkey breast, chicken breasts, roast beef, **gasp** bacon,
    - milk; lots of people don't like milk because of the fats, but if you can fit it into your macronutrient requirements, it wont have any negative effect on you; 8g/cup;
    i usually have 3-4 cups a day. if you don't want to bother with fat, get fat free or 1-2%; still has the same protein per cup;

    Also, don't forget about your micronutrients; ie; minerals, vitamins, etc... be sure your consuming a steady flux of water; mix up your veggies daily; i usually have about 5 cups/veggies a day, all at one time; carrots, spinach, broccoli, asparagus, cauliflour, etc...steam em all up at once, throw in some red-wine vinegar with some butter and you have one awesome cocktail of veggies that contains most, if not all your micronutrients for the day.

    I just started cutting last week,; i actually have a log started myself; i have a few people that have joined with me in for the journey; feel free to come hang out in there. i don't spit out garbage advice and am up to yak about anything..

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post827049301


    also, a good way to track progress is to take weekly/biweekly/monthly pics, and compare before / after pics. it will give you the optio to see your before/after progress. post up some pics in here; (im curious to see where your starting from also).
    Last edited by krete77; 02-15-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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  17. #17
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Thanks again man, just had a look at your log. Have no idea how you're 18%+ to be honest you certainly look to have less than me. I'll try get a pic up it will be through a smart phone though so mightn't the best. What site do you use to upload it?

    I'm going to get the scales over the weekend and cook a lot of my weeks' meat on Sunday. I'll get a weigh in and BF check done again over weekend and post diet and work out daily next week. I think I'm seeing results already which is pleasing!
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  18. #18
    c++ positive krete77's Avatar
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    Well most people misjudge their own BF % and think they are really lower then they are. No reason in short guessing yourself. I just used measurements + guesses from people online, and sorta combined it all together and the avg came out to about 18%. Chances are I'm somewhere between 17-19%...numbers aren't too important, its more about how my body looks overall anyways.

    I'm cutting slowly because i really hope to retain my size while dropping fat. Going to be a toughy for me though, my body is long and lanky, and it seems too shrivel up if I eat at a deficit
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  19. #19
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Little update:

    Still haven't got the scales, I know I know I'll get on it!

    Diet is clean as a whistle the last week but realised today that I definitely need to add at least 1 small snack as this morning I was pretty weak to the point I was worried about fainting to be honest, until I ate.

    Diet for last 7 days:

    3 egg whites scrambled, 1 fish oil tab, 1 vit B complex tab
    1.5 chicken fillets, brocolli, cauliflower, corn, half handful of cheese
    1 steak/fish, brocolli, cauliflower, corn, 2 tbls soy sauce, 1 fish oil tab

    This morning I added two slices of brown bread which definitely gave me the required energy. I think I'll add a protein shake & a tbls or 2 of peanut butter to my diet starting tomorrow, having one between breakfast and lunch and the other before bed.

    The scales aren't showing much difference to be honest but the mirror is so very happy with the progress so far. Long way to go in this bet but I'm confident.
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  20. #20
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Mini-update: weight is down to 76 kg and I would estimate BF at around 14.5%. Happy enough with the progress so far but I'm going to start IF in the near future as it is getting very positive reviews in StevefromNY's thread and the pics of fat loss over 10-12 weeks are incredible. I will put a lot of research into it before I begin though and will have to get myself some BCAAs.
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  21. #21
    Registered User 105mphMegsan's Avatar
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    I normally miss my breakfast and make it up with a heavy lunch. Is it harmful?
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    Originally Posted by 105mphMegsan View Post
    I normally miss my breakfast and make it up with a heavy lunch. Is it harmful?
    no.
    Don't Drink, Don't Smoke, Watdo you do?
    -----CUT STACK---
    GROUND BEEF
    WHITE BREAD
    CHICKEN
    2% MILK
    BROCCOLI
    LOW FAT ICE CREAM
    THOSE YOGURTS WITH THE CANDY THING ON TOP
    SUGAR FREE JELL-O
    FIBER ONE GRANOLA BARS
    APPLES
    ORANGES
    PICKLES
    COFFEE
    MARLBORO 100's
    MORE COFFEE
    ------------------------------
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  23. #23
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    OK I'm going to start updating this daily for the next few weeks to keep motivation high. As already stated I plan on starting IF Friday week, possibly this Friday depending on my weight then. I'd like to be 75kg starting it.

    I'm going to post yesterday's diet and workout too as it's a reflection of my weights routine.

    Breakfast: 3 scrambled eggs, 2 rice cakes w jam,1 fish oil, 1 vit b complex
    Lunch: 2 burgers, cauliflower, brocolli, cheese.

    Workout (all done with dumbells besides the 7x7x7):
    Bench Press: 25kg x 8 x 2
    27.5kg x 8 x 3
    Incline bench press: 17.5kg x 8 x 3
    Bent Over Row: 27.5kg x 8 x 3
    Shoulder press: 17.5kg x 8 x 3
    Dumbell flys (?): 15kg x 8 x 3
    7x7x7: not sure if there's a name for these but it's 7x arm curls normal position on bar, then 7 close together and 7 far apart. x3. 10kg on both sides, bar prob 5kg.

    Dinner: 1 steak, cauliflower, brocolli, corn, green beans, celery, cheese.

    Today:

    Breakfast: 3 scrambled eggs, 2 rice cakes w jam,1 fish oil, 1 vit b complex
    Lunch: 1 steak, cauliflower, brocolli, corn, green beans, celery, cheese.
    Workout: in 2 hours probably 100% cardio
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  24. #24
    c++ positive krete77's Avatar
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    I'm keeping an eye on ya. Will give some more input later today after class. I'm curious though, could you post your workout routine, for each week? Just include all your maine exercises, and what you do. I have a sneaky suspicion about something and I'd like to confirm.
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  25. #25
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Yep cool man, good to know someone's keeping an eye on it. I know I'm going to get berated for my routines in the gym as there's no real structure or focus on key areas. But I will post exactly what I do in there. There'll be an update in about 3-4 hours.
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  26. #26
    c++ positive krete77's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaptHook View Post
    Yep cool man, good to know someone's keeping an eye on it. I know I'm going to get berated for my routines in the gym as there's no real structure or focus on key areas. But I will post exactly what I do in there. There'll be an update in about 3-4 hours.
    Just from what you wrote in the underline/bolded part that I selected tells me it's time to formulate a structured program thats geared towards your goals. And if you don't know exactly what you want to achieve, then your spinning your wheels.

    Hey, I"m just trying to save you years and years of wasted time in gym, to advance your goals to your maximum potential. I wasted over 7 years in the gym up until just the end of last year where I've made steady gains/consistent efforts and have achieved excellent results.

    I anxiously await your routine
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  27. #27
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Cool here's what I did tonight. I'll keep posting every day & I look forward to criticism & advice. My goal is simple: retain muscle and lose fat with the emphasis on losing fat. I want to get my BF down to around 10% by June 2nd.

    Tonight I did 500m warm up jog, then interval distances on rowing machine (250m 1min rest x 10) followed by 5km on treadmill @ 27:11. Very happy with the run because, although it's not a great time, I haven't run since mid-November when I hurt my ankle. So a) I was happy to be able to do it without any ankle concerns and b) I'm happy not to be too far off what I was doing in Nov (around 23:45) considering it wasn't full intensity today.

    Dinner now 1 salmon & veg from last night. Had a post workout snack of rice cake peanut butter and jam.


    EDIT: Also had a sneaky weigh in which I shouldn't have bothered doing - 78.5 kg
    Last edited by CaptHook; 02-28-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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  28. #28
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    You need to weigh yourself in the morning each time, it will be more consistent. Weight fluctuates by a few lbs throughout the day.

    Also, dude, it should only take from now until mid-April to lose 5% body fat. Between 1 and 2 lbs a week is ideal and very realistic.. you just have to stick to your macros.
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  29. #29
    Registered User CaptHook's Avatar
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    Right buying a scales later & I'm going to spend a few hours concocting recipes that hit the macros & are based around IF. Do you guys just not bother counting the calories & macronutrients in veg?

    I spent a good while last night browsing other logs & googling the weight exercises people were doing & I'm confident I now have a few more that I can do. The following is every exercise I can do with weights in the gym plus all the machines of course:

    Dumbbell Bench Press, Dumbbell Incline Bench Press, Bent Over Row, Shoulder Press, 7x7x7,
    Preacher Curls, T-bar row, Dips, Pull ups, Box Jumps,
    Dumbbell Lateral Raise, Ab Pulldown (Rope), Skullcrushers,

    There might be a couple I'm leaving out but a lot of them are new to me too after my research last night. Tonight is a weights session. Breakfast was 3 egg whites & 3 rice cakes with peanut butter & jam.

    Dumbbell Bench Press
    Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
    Bent Over Row
    Shoulder Press
    7x7x7
    Preacher Curls
    T-bar row
    Dips
    Pull ups
    Box Jumps
    Dumbbell Lateral Raise
    Ab Pulldown (Rope)
    Skullcrushers
    Last edited by CaptHook; 02-29-2012 at 03:21 AM. Reason: More clarity
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  30. #30
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    Going strong. Keep at it
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