How important are shrugs for trap and shoulder development?

[frank112]

I'm currently on a variation of Layne Norton's PHAT routine and have disregarded shrugs for other excersizes i've deemed more important to growth and strength development.

I'm wondering if im seriously hindering any gains by ignoring shrugs and wonder how instrumental they are to growing traps/shoulders, when I do other excersizes that target both all the time (albeit traps are always targeted indirectly).

[kanis999]

I believe shrugs are of paramount importance. Not quite irreplaceable though. Deadlifts, face pulls, and upright rows seem to do a good job as well.

[lee__d]

As long as your deadlifting heavy, i cant see your traps 'lagging'... could adding shrugs help more, maybe.
For me, deads and upright rows seem sufficient.

[frank112]

I believe shrugs are of paramount importance. Not quite irreplaceable though. Deadlifts, face pulls, and upright rows seem to do a good job as well.

That's just it. My traps seem to be getting bigger from deads alone (I don't do upright rows cause of my bad shoulders) and I never feel anything in my shoulders from doing shrugs.

[kanis999]

That's just it. My traps seem to be getting bigger from deads alone (I don't do upright rows cause of my bad shoulders) and I never feel anything in my shoulders from doing shrugs.

Keep doin whatcha doin then.

[lee__d]

That's just it. My traps seem to be getting bigger from deads alone (I don't do upright rows cause of my bad shoulders) and I never feel anything in my shoulders from doing shrugs.

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Keep doin whatcha doin then.

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[Tyciol]

I think I'd do rows unless my upper traps were very small in proportion to my lower traps.

Does this happen to a lot of people? Or are they trying to build upper traps which are unbalanced and much larger than lower traps by comparison?

I guess it seems like the front delt to me. It gets a lot of indirect training from other movements (like overhead pressing) and tends to have a neglected sibling (lower traps, rear delts) who is small, and doesn't look cool because it's not a pleasant shape (triangle/trapezoid)

[xStevenx]

Not at all. Deadlifting and working your back will give you good traps

[kanis999]

I think I'd do rows unless my upper traps were very small in proportion to my lower traps.

Does this happen to a lot of people? Or are they trying to build upper traps which are unbalanced and much larger than lower traps by comparison?

I'm pretty sure most people's lower traps are completely neglected. Hardly anybody actually focuses on them.

Although I was shocked to find out recently that they work during upward rotation. Very interesting how that works.

[MichaelRobert]

I never felt like shrugs work that well either. I just do heavy deadlifts and I feel it the next day

[Tyciol]

I was shocked to find out recently that they work during upward rotation. Very interesting how that works.

I'm really interested in figuring out how that works too, though different places commenting on it don't seem to be consistent.

Example: ExRx says they do help rotate: http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusLower.html and that the middle helps: http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusMiddle.html but the upper does not http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusUpper.html (although it's a stabilizer via its role as scapular elevator during overhead pressing)

But Wikipedia says it's the upper and not the middle that helps the lower traps upward rotate. Bill Hartman and Mike Robertson of T-nation seems to share this: http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/0...g/image003.gif (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lls_and_shrugs)

[kanis999]

I'm really interested in figuring out how that works too, though different places commenting on it don't seem to be consistent.

Example: ExRx says they do help rotate: http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusLower.html and that the middle helps: http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusMiddle.html but the upper does not http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusUpper.html (although it's a stabilizer via its role as scapular elevator during overhead pressing)

But Wikipedia says it's the upper and not the middle that helps the lower traps upward rotate. Bill Hartman and Mike Robertson of T-nation seems to share this: http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/0...g/image003.gif (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lls_and_shrugs)

It was that T-nation article that made me think the lower fiber assist in upward rotation. It makes sense by looking at the picture, but only when the serratus is involved.

I think the initial confusion I had was due to the assumption that the lower traps connect to the bottom half of the scapula. Since they connect higher up, it makes a pretty big difference.