Bizarre Muscle Loss, Expert Advice Only

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 07:32 AM

So for the past six months I've been experiencing consistent muscle loss, despite maintaining my strength and diet. About 8 months ago, I started my first stack of T-Bomb 2, made some good gains and continued onto some other OTC test boosters. Startung in February, I started losing muscle at a pretty consistent rate, despite maintaining the same training program and diet. I posted about this around June and figured I needed to change up my training. I tried a variety of training programs, made strength gains, but still experienced consistent muscle loss.

It came to the point where I went to my medical officer (I'm in the military) and explained the problem. He pretty much brushed it off and wondered what I was even doing there. This was about two months ago and I'm still having the same problem. I know it's not in my head because pretty much every day my friends and people I haven't seen in a while make comments about my loss of weight. It's now starting to depress me because I've been able to gain muscle pretty easily since I started training about 5 years ago. I was developed enough to the point that I was considering going into bodybuilding. Now I look like I don't even go to the gym despite training hard and eating like a freak for the past 6 months. I now sympathize with those of you out there who struggle to make gains despite consistent hard work, because this is the first time in my life it's been hard for me throughout years of training. I know people will respond that my training program or diet is ****ed up, but I know that's not the case because I've made pretty easy gains in the past. Im pretty experienced in this and know what it takes to make gains bc I've done it. So basically I'm wondering if there are any factors beyond diet and gaining that this could be attributed to. I'm considering paying out of pocket to see an endocrinologist since the medical docs won't take me seriously (there's nothing affecting my health so they don't care). Could the test boosters have ****ed me up permanently? Is it excessive use of creatine or preworkout supps? I honestly don't know what to do at this point. Please let me know if any of you advanced guys I've experienced something similar and what you did about it. For the record, I'm 25 and have never taken illegal steroids, just the legal stuff you can buy at a GNC. Appreciate the help, fellas.

**chamelious** · 10-09-2014, 07:39 AM

Couple of things, i don't think you're permitted to discuss the things you've mentioned on this forum and 2, this is a public internet forum, if you want expert advice you should see a doctor and get referred to a specialist.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by chamelious

Couple of things, i don't think you're permitted to discuss the things you've mentioned on this forum and 2, this is a public internet forum, if you want expert advice you should see a doctor and get referred to a specialist.

Why would I not be able to discuss this on the forum? I've seen a doctor and he said there's nothing wrong with me. Seems like an appropriate thing to discuss, unless I'm missing something.

**chamelious** · 10-09-2014, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by JoeShrugged

Why would I not be able to discuss this on the forum? I've seen a doctor and he said there's nothing wrong with me. Seems like an appropriate thing to discuss, unless I'm missing something.

Have you told the doctor about the stuff you've used? I would still suggest visiting the doctor, a different one if possible.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by chamelious

Have you told the doctor about the stuff you've used? I would still suggest visiting the doctor, a different one if possible.

Yeah he said there's no way anything OTC could affect me this drastically.

**sdunn96** · 10-09-2014, 07:49 AM

How many calories are you consuming?
Is it the right number of calories to support you and your daily routine?

**chamelious** · 10-09-2014, 07:51 AM

Did you tell him you've experienced fairly rapid weight loss? If you did, and he didn't run tests like thyroid functionality, i really would just see another doctor.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by sdunn96

How many calories are you consuming?
Is it the right number of calories to support you and your daily routine?

about 4k a day. Had no problem maintaining at this number and then started losing muscle pretty noticeably so just started eating everything in sight. Now just feeling "skinny fat" -- I'm eating more than I used to, but looks like its just going to my belly, which is why i don't think diet is the issue.

**ChaoticReignPbt** · 10-09-2014, 07:57 AM

Tough to say your diet is on point if you don't tell us what your macro breakdown is. Some deficiencies can be hell on hormones.

As for the supplements were these all "natural" test boosters? GNC for quite some time carried various prohormones which are essentially designer steroids. Running one without a proper post cycle protocol is a recipe for disaster. Is your libido ok?

As others have said, this can be a result of a great many things. Ideally you need bloodwork and a doctor willing to work with you.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by chamelious

Did you tell him you've experienced fairly rapid weight loss? If you did, and he didn't run tests like thyroid functionality, i really would just see another doctor.

Problem is, my weight has stayed the same but muscle has definitely dropped. Larger gut, less definition, and much slower on cardio. Probably why he didn't take me seriously bc pounds on the scale haven't really gone down. This leads me to think its a testosterone/hormone problem.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by ChaoticReignPbt

Tough to say your diet is on point if you don't tell us what your macro breakdown is. Some deficiencies can be hell on hormones.

As for the supplements were these all "natural" test boosters? GNC for quite some time carried various prohormones which are essentially designer steroids. Running one without a proper post cycle protocol is a recipe for disaster. Is your libido ok?

As others have said, this can be a result of a great many things. Ideally you need bloodwork and a doctor willing to work with you.

Libido is low (though not nonexistent) unless I'm on a test booster. Only used anything they've sold in the past year (t bomb, activate, P6, etc) so didn't use anything while pro hormones were still around. If PCT was the problem though, what would you say is the solution now?

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 08:15 AM

What kind of doc should I see? Endo? How much would this cost out of pocket?

**ChaoticReignPbt** · 10-09-2014, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoeShrugged

Libido is low (though not nonexistent) unless I'm on a test booster. Only used anything they've sold in the past year (t bomb, activate, P6, etc) so didn't use anything while pro hormones were still around. If PCT was the problem though, what would you say is the solution now?

I'm not familiar with any of those products but generally none of the "natural" T boosters produce enough change to need any sort of PCT. In fact the only reason most people even think they do anything is that most of them contain a combination of herbs known for libido boosts which makes people think their test must be way higher.

If it was something steroidal the length of time this has been going it still likely would have resolved itself on its on. There is a lot that can play hell on hormones, nutrient deficiencies, low vitamin D, poor dietary fat intake. And then there's other things like thyroid issues etc.

An endo can run the tests but any well educated GP can as well. The other option is private testing depending on the state you're in. Hormone panel runs about 60 or 70 bucks through some places. But I would save that as a last resort. Ideally you want a doctor working with you. Don't take no for an answer. Keep pushing for tests.

**Follix** · 10-09-2014, 08:34 AM

What about caloric and dietary fat intake?

**rhadam** · 10-09-2014, 08:37 AM

You should see a specialist. Not a GP. I repeat: see a specialist. If what you say is true there could be something really wrong. I'm not going to fear monger by stating the couple things that pop in to my head but seriously go see someone now.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by rhadam

You should see a specialist. Not a GP. I repeat: see a specialist. If what you say is true there could be something really wrong. I'm not going to fear monger by stating the couple things that pop in to my head but seriously go see someone now.

By specialist, I assume you mean an endo? What's popping into your head?

Not trying to exaggerate here...If you saw me you wouldn't think I'm sick or unhealthy. I just don't look remotely like I go to the gym as often as I do. Which is obviously a huge problem given the amount of effort I've put in and the losses I've had over the past few months.

**ChaoticReignPbt** · 10-09-2014, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by rhadam

You should see a specialist. Not a GP. I repeat: see a specialist. If what you say is true there could be something really wrong. I'm not going to fear monger by stating the couple things that pop in to my head but seriously go see someone now.

This can be debatable. Without having any idea what's wrong it's tough to pick a specialist. He really needs to get some tests done to narrow it down. A straight forward hormone panel will eliminate a lot of things. A lot of the TRT guys have better luck with well educated younger GP's when it comes to narrowing down similar symptoms.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Follix

What about caloric and dietary fat intake?

Thought this was the problem and started downing a gallon of milk a day. Did this for about 2 weeks, no change.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 08:51 AM

Ill add that I used to do a lot of cardio throughout the years and still had good gains. Cut that out entirely a few months ago bc thought I was running a caloric deficit but still having issues. Sucks because I used to run sub 19 minute 3 miles at my size but now am almost focused entirely on putting size back on with no success.

**rhadam** · 10-09-2014, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by ChaoticReignPbt

This can be debatable. Without having any idea what's wrong it's tough to pick a specialist. He really needs to get some tests done to narrow it down. A straight forward hormone panel will eliminate a lot of things. A lot of the TRT guys have better luck with well educated younger GP's when it comes to narrowing down similar symptoms.

Having worked with doctors for a year in a cancer research hospital and living with 3 doctors 1 being beyond brilliant (my best bud

) ... That's why I say do not see a GP. Speak to an endo and get a full hormone panel as well as thyroid levels checked and look in to your metabolism. I can't get in to anything in depth bc I still don't have internet and posting from phone is beyond tiresome.

With what the op is describing, that sounds like disease. Muscle wasting just doesn't happen for no reason.

**ChaoticReignPbt** · 10-09-2014, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by rhadam

Having worked with doctors for a year in a cancer research hospital and living with 3 doctors 1 being beyond brilliant (my best bud

) ... That's why I say do not see a GP. Speak to an endo and get a full hormone panel as well as thyroid levels checked and look in to your metabolism. I can't get in to anything in depth bc I still don't have internet and posting from phone is beyond tiresome.

With what the op is describing, that sounds like disease. Muscle wasting just doesn't happen for no reason.

Fair enough, OP seemed to me to be describing a situation that didn't seem that rapid or extreme. But either way we can all agree he needs medical intervention and testing to get to the bottom of this. this is your health OP. Get on it.

**rhadam** · 10-09-2014, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by ChaoticReignPbt

Fair enough, OP seemed to me to be describing a situation that didn't seem that rapid or extreme. But either way we can all agree he needs medical intervention and testing to get to the bottom of this. this is your health OP. Get on it.

Agreed.

**JoeShrugged** · 10-09-2014, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by rhadam

Agreed.

I don't really believe it is that rapid or extreme. I haven't experienced any strength or coordination loss and I certainly don't look anorexic at this point. But it is considerable enough to the point that I've gotten extremely frustrated and I consistently get comments from other people about my loss of weight. I'm able to see a doctor in about two weeks and will take your guys advice and do so as soon as I can.

In the meantime could this be a fluid retention issue? This could explain why my strength is still high but my upper body appears flat. I've always been super sensitive to creatine (would blow up when I would take it) but maybe now that I've taken it for so long my body has adjusted and it no longer has an effect. Any validity to this? Second theory is the testosterone boosters ****ed with my hormones, but nobody seems to think OTC supplements could do this. Ill have to validate that when I get to a doc though.

**sdunn96** · 10-09-2014, 10:37 AM

Maybe you should take a few weeks of no supps???
I agree w/ others, see a doctor for sure...

But maybe just stick to diet for now, and no supps.....short of a multi maybe

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