Be quiet before you say you don't believe in god.

[ONtop888]

I would be very interested, as well as very skeptical. Not as skeptical as I am about the OP though.

Governments do not offer protection from mobs. An easy example - cash for clunkers. Obama, who is backed by the mob that elected him, said I have to pay for someone's ****ty car. If I resist, the mob strikes. I have no protection at all.

Change cash for clunkers to some religious bull**** and it's the same thing.

Governments like America's offer protection from you getting mobbed for saying something "blasphemous"as was the case in your example. Do anarchist societies prevent against this?

[ONtop888]

Im actually just jealous because we're the same height and I cant get to 200lbs if my life depended on it.

That was when I had some more fat on me, didn't have the vascularity that you have in forearm avi. Sitting at 195 right now.

[Ebola_Virus]

I understand your sentiment OP, and I'm particularly capable of empathy in this situation as I've shared your views for a greater portion of my life than I'd like to admit. However, the odds were against me, and they're not looking good for you now. As stated by Tim Minchin, "...throughout history every mystery ever solved has turned out to be not magic."

I'd like you to take an objective step backwards and sincerely consider this question. Why is it that you believe, with a complete lack of evidence, that the supernatural exists? Is it not probable that within the 10,000 years or so that humans have been recording history that an event that acts as incontrovertible evidence for the supernatural would have occurred? Especially with the advent of record-able media and the cell phone. There are terabytes of data per second being recorded in every country on the planet and yet we've run into nothing that can't be explained by physical laws. Is this not strange given your claim that the supernatural world wishes to impose its will upon the natural? And why would they want to do this? No, it's not probable. I'll tell you what is though. It's probable that another human being whose very classification as a human being necessitates that they have a brain, and that this brain by the act being a human brain is similar in structure and function to yours, and that this brain happened to be thinking the same thing that yours happened to think at some point in the memorable past. Does this not seem more reasonable than divine intervention?

[ditsy911]

I have had miracles happen before that I cannot explain.

A girl telling me to keep building what I'm supposed to be building. I never told her what I was thinking about building ever, but she perfectly explained two ideas that I have had in my mind.

She told me she had visions of it happening. I was in shock.

I had trouble sleeping that night.

A spiritual world does exist.

Athiests I have read all your arguments against god, but I can't explain this.

So you get to see miracles, while I sit around, waiting for God to show himself, and will eventually burn in hell for not believing.

Gee, thanks God.

[guyver79]

Explain how a "coincidence" like that occurs? I'd like to see that step in the reasoning process.

It's a coincidence, the law of large numbers and selective memory and hearing.

[AugustusMcCrae]

I'm not saying that this is a miracle....who knows, none of us can verify OP's story. However, I think it is a useful/interesting exercise to put ourselves in the same situation: say that you have a personal dream of building a special community based on distinct values and ideas, of which you have never told anyone. Then, a random person approaches you and tells you this deep secret in detail and says that she saw it in visions. What do you think? How do you process it and account for it?

Obviously, the woman is a witch and according to the Bible should be burned at the stake.

[flairon]

Wind generator

And

A

Heat generator

For electricity

so she came up with ideas for probably 2 of the most researched and developed ideas in the green industry today?

Yeah..that must be the hand of god.

[AlphaSaiyan]

I don't believe in god.

[LordByronGains]

something I don't understand






























therefore God.

[basement iron]

I have had miracles happen before that I cannot explain.

A girl telling me to keep building what I'm supposed to be building. I never told her what I was thinking about building ever, but she perfectly explained two ideas that I have had in my mind.

She told me she had visions of it happening. I was in shock.

I had trouble sleeping that night.

A spiritual world does exist.

Athiests I have read all your arguments against god, but I can't explain this.

So the 'spirit world' and its 'miracles' appear to be similar to that so called psychics, telling you something you already know. How amazingly unimpressive. When a million people all have the same dream, and this dream is detailed, and many of these people tell the world of their dream, and this dream comes true 110% then you'll have my attention.

You were trolled by the power of high numbers. The power of high numbers wears a scumbag Steve hat. If one dreams enough eventually some dreams will seem to come true. And an even smaller number will seem to be so accurate that the person is convinced that 'something more' is going on.

And they say man has an over developed sense of cause and effect. The posts in R&P remind me of that fact everyday.

[Stizzel]

Governments like America's offer protection from you getting mobbed for saying something "blasphemous"as was the case in your example. Do anarchist societies prevent against this?

First of all, no they don't. The government is not obligated to protect you, and government power is nothing more than mob rule. The American mob may oppose religious lynching, but that is based on the whims of the public.

If the american public were to become ultra religious, the government would start persecuting based on religion.

So as long as you have institutionalized mob violence - the government - you will always be subject to mob violence.

[Maiar]

once i was thinking bout sex and I got a text from one of my fuk buddies. Gave jesus a quick thumbs up then headed out the door.

[wings_unhinged]

I have had miracles happen before that I cannot explain.

A girl telling me to keep building what I'm supposed to be building. I never told her what I was thinking about building ever, but she perfectly explained two ideas that I have had in my mind.

She told me she had visions of it happening. I was in shock.

I had trouble sleeping that night.

A spiritual world does exist.

Athiests I have read all your arguments against god, but I can't explain this.

Yet another subjective personal experience that can be made up in a matter of seconds. Good for you, OP, if it helped make you a better person. But it doesn't make me want to "be quiet" about god's existence.

[jake24]

I have had miracles happen before that I cannot explain.

A girl telling me to keep building what I'm supposed to be building. I never told her what I was thinking about building ever, but she perfectly explained two ideas that I have had in my mind.

She told me she had visions of it happening. I was in shock.

I had trouble sleeping that night.

A spiritual world does exist.

Athiests I have read all your arguments against god, but I can't explain this.

Pretty cool story.... I'm sure you've always wondered how this girl knew this... Well what you described is a word of Knowledge from God... It's one of the gifts of the spirit... I once heard a story of a bodybuilder who wanted to be a world class bodybuilder since he was a kid he used to set in his grandmothers lap and pray with his grandmother for God to help him achieve that goal and he promised to serve God if God would help him... He later achieved that goal - he didn't keep his end of the bargain and didn't live for God fast forward many years this guy sees him in an airport and tells him he has a message from God for him, he tells him the story of how he used to sit in his grandmothers lap and pray to be a a successful bodybuilder... The bodybuilder breaks out into tears knowing only God would know this... In fact on the airplane he was telling his wife this same story about when he was a kid how he would sit in his grandmothers lap and pray about his dreams, and he said I haven't kept my end of the bargain and when they got off the plane a complete stranger approached him and tells him that very same story... Needless to say the man and his girl got right with God then and there... Before anyone ask me the name of this bodybuilder I don't know who it was - just heard a well known preacher relate the story because he is the man that approached this bodybuilder in the airport with the word of Knowledge he said he seen it in a vision just like you described this girl having a vision of what she told you.

[jake24]

I have had miracles happen before that I cannot explain.

A girl telling me to keep building what I'm supposed to be building. I never told her what I was thinking about building ever, but she perfectly explained two ideas that I have had in my mind.

She told me she had visions of it happening. I was in shock.

I had trouble sleeping that night.

A spiritual world does exist.

Athiests I have read all your arguments against god, but I can't explain this.

Here Op here is a explanation of a word of knowledge... A word of knowledge is a definite conviction, impression, or knowing that comes to you in a similitude (a mental picture), a dream, through a vision, or by a Scripture that is quickened to you. It is supernatural insight or understanding of circumstances, situations, problems, or a body of facts by revelation; that is, without assistance by any human resource but solely by divine aid.

Furthermore, the gift of the word of knowledge is the transcendental revelation of the divine will and plan of God. It involves moral wisdom for right living and relationships, requires objective understanding concerning divine things in human duties, and refers to knowledge of God or of the things that belong to God, as related in the Gospel.

The gifts of the word of wisdom and the word of knowledge function together; knowledge is raw material and wisdom builds on it.

[Birdy69]

How are your sure humans don't have a sixth sense but almost no way to read it?

Pretty sure that doesn't indicate God OP. More like something I would hear on Joe Rogan Podcast.

[Stizzel]

Btw for the record, I too have had 'spiritual experiences' and I am an atheist.

No doubt there is more to reality than we can currency understand; this is precisely why science and logic are so important. And why theism is a problem.

[ONtop888]

First of all, no they don't. The government is not obligated to protect you, and government power is nothing more than mob rule. The American mob may oppose religious lynching, but that is based on the whims of the public.

If the american public were to become ultra religious, the government would start persecuting based on religion.

So as long as you have institutionalized mob violence - the government - you will always be subject to mob violence.

You keep playing games and diverting from the straight forward question that I posed to you. I have been through your position about the government being institutionalized mob violence that forces people to buy products and robs the people through force. I get it.

My question is this: how would an anarchist state prevent mob violence - here mob violence in relation to being ganged up on and killed due to religious beliefs which was your specific example - more efficiently than the US as it currently is? Couldn't various localities do precisely that without any centralized power to keep them in check?

[ONtop888]

Btw for the record, I too have had 'spiritual experiences' and I am an atheist.

What spiritual experiences are these? Can you elaborate? Also, what do define as "spiritual" and what about these experiences leads you to believe that there is more to reality than what we currently understand?

No doubt there is more to reality than we can currency understand; this is precisely why science and logic are so important. And why theism is a problem.

In the way you made this assertion it is a non-sequitur. Some theists, like myself for example, incorporate science, logic, and reason.

[Ace28]

This happened.

[kel_varnsen]

some anonymous dude on the internet says he has experienced many miracles. hm, yeah. that definitely sounds legit. i'm now a born again christian...

[Stizzel]

You keep playing games and diverting from the straight forward question that I posed to you. I have been through your position about the government being institutionalized mob violence that forces people to buy products and robs the people through force. I get it.

My question is this: how would an anarchist state prevent mob violence - here mob violence in relation to being ganged up on and killed due to religious beliefs which was your specific example - more efficiently than the US as it currently is? Couldn't various localities do precisely that without any centralized power to keep them in check?

I'm not sure how to give any more straight forward of an answer. I don't know that anything can completely eliminate mob violence, but I do know that the worst way to eliminate it is to institutionalize it and then apply it to hundreds of millions of people.

If you tell me that you're worried about setting houses on fire, and there's an institution that's dedicated to setting EVERYONE'S house on fire, I would say the first step towards your goal of 0 arson would be to stop supporting that institution. How can I be any more direct? If you don't get it, then you don't get it. I know it hurts to think about, but this is not rocket science.

[LiftTheIron]

How are your sure humans don't have a sixth sense but almost no way to read it?

Pretty sure that doesn't indicate God OP. More like something I would hear on Joe Rogan Podcast.

Lol. DMT therefore soul. Don't see why most of the misc hug that dude's nuts so hard.

[Stizzel]

What spiritual experiences are these? Can you elaborate? Also, what do define as "spiritual" and what about these experiences leads you to believe that there is more to reality than what we currently understand?
In the way you made this assertion it is a non-sequitur. Some theists, like myself for example, incorporate science, logic, and reason.

Well when my mom died, I knew it. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I knew she had passed away. And it wasn't any kind of intuition, she was in good health and died very unexpectedly. No one even knows why as the coroner wasn't able to determine a cause of death. But they were able to come up with a probable time of death, at least to what day it happened, and it was the same date as the message I had left on her answering machine because I had called due to that feeling I had.

Shortly after she died, my brother and I both had the same dreams about her, and it was her giving us the same message, on the same day. It was all very eerie.

I have had some others, but that is what springs to mind at the moment.

But there is nothing logical about theism, not even remotely so. I know some people try to pretend to be 'scientific theists', and it is nice to see theism move towards being so secular, but the two are not compatible at all.

[ONtop888]

I'm not sure how to give any more straight forward of an answer. I don't know that anything can completely eliminate mob violence, but I do know that the worst way to eliminate it is to institutionalize it and then apply it to hundreds of millions of people.

If you tell me that you're worried about setting houses on fire, and there's an institution that's dedicated to setting EVERYONE'S house on fire, I would say the first step towards your goal of 0 arson would be to stop supporting that institution. How can I be any more direct? If you don't get it, then you don't get it. I know it hurts to think about, but this is not rocket science.

You still didn't answer my question....

Please tell me how your vision of an anarchy would better prevent this very specific example of religious persecution, and how your position on this very specific example is a better alternative to our current government.

[Stizzel]

You still didn't answer my question....

Please tell me how your vision of an anarchy would better prevent this very specific example of religious persecution, and how your position on this very specific example is a better alternative to our current government.

Well in my example, I was acting as a bureaucrat on behalf of the public, fully empowered under constitutional law and the will of the majority, so I think the answer is clear.

[ONtop888]

Well when my mom died, I knew it. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I knew she had passed away. And it wasn't any kind of intuition, she was in good health and died very unexpectedly. No one even knows why as the coroner wasn't able to determine a cause of death. But they were able to come up with a probable time of death, at least to what day it happened, and it was the same date as the message I had left on her answering machine because I had called due to that feeling I had.

Shortly after she died, my brother and I both had the same dreams about her, and it was her giving us the same message, on the same day. It was all very eerie.

I have had some others, but that is what springs to mind at the moment.

Well, it's not crazy. My sister is special needs (not severely). When our grandfather died she was crying and kept asking all of us about him. She never talked about him, at all. Yet on this particular day she was. Later that day we got the phone call that he died.

But there is nothing logical about theism, not even remotely so.

This statement leads me to believe that you don't understand what 'logic' is in an academic setting. What you probably mean is 'reason,' and even then you are incorrect. Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason," in part, critiqued theists for relying on human reasoning and logic as an authoritative source.

I know some people try to pretend to be 'scientific theists', and it is nice to see theism move towards being so secular, but the two are not compatible at all.

I don't even know what "scientific theist" means or entails. I accept scientific theories. I believe in God. Compatible enough for me. It is rather ignorant to presume that the two are mutually exclusive. Unless, of course, you have something else in mind with your term "scientific theist."

[ONtop888]

Well in my example, I was acting as a bureaucrat on behalf of the public, fully empowered under constitutional law and the will of the majority, so I think the answer is clear.

Ok. Well that is a hypothetical scenario. I can easily match that with a tribal South Carolinian gang killing all Muslims in their locality. Mob violence fully empowered by the absence of a centralized power acting upon the will of the local majority.....

[Stizzel]

Well, it's not crazy. My sister is special needs (not severely). When our grandfather died she was crying and kept asking all of us about him. She never talked about him, at all. Yet on this particular day she was. Later that day we got the phone call that he died.


This statement leads me to believe that you don't understand what 'logic' is in an academic setting. What you probably mean is 'reason,' and even then you are incorrect. Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason," in part, critiqued theists for relying on human reasoning and logic as an authoritative source.
I don't even know what "scientific theist" means or entails. I accept scientific theories. I believe in God. Compatible enough for me. It is rather ignorant to presume that the two are mutually exclusive. Unless, of course, you have something else in mind with your term "scientific theist."

I've never seen any evidence that there is a god, and I've never seen a logically consistent argument in favor of even the possibility of a god.

[Stizzel]

Ok. Well that is a hypothetical scenario. I can easily match that with a tribal South Carolinian gang killing all Muslims in their locality. Mob violence fully empowered by the absence of a centralized power acting upon the will of the local majority.....

There's an anarchist part of south carolina? I find this hard to believe.