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  1. #1
    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    Help needed with post workout meal

    Hi guys, here's my current diet:

    8.00am - 60g oats 6/37/5/230 + whey 24/3/1/120 + 10g glutamine 30/40/6/350
    8.45am - 10g modern bcaa's + 300mg caffeine
    9.00am - 60 minutes lifting
    10.00am - 1.5 scoops vitargo 0/55/0/140 + whey 36/5/2/180 36/60/2/320
    11.00am - 135g chicken breast 42/0/5/223, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/2 avocado 2/6/10/114 45/8/15/345
    2.00pm - 140g tuna 30/0/3/149, 14g almonds 3/3/7/81 33/3/10/230
    5.00pm - 135g chicken breast 42/0/5/223, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/2 avocado 2/6/10/114 45/8/15/345
    8.00pm - 200g 95/5 ground beef 43/0/10/260, 1 cup broccoli 7/12/0/54 50/12/10/314

    total - 239/119/58/1904

    I wanted to substitute the lettuce and avocado in my 11am post workout meal for brown rice. How many grams of carbs would be good here? I'm not trying to bulk either, trying to build lean muscle.
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  2. #2
    Registered User AlanApe's Avatar
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    I'd suggest your calorie intake of 1904 is a bit low.

    There's a lot of conflicting information about post workout nutrition, so don't fret too much. as for how many grams, depends on what your goals for the day are.

    I typically consume 45g simple carbns & protein after workout as I work out at 5.30am and it sets me up for the day, and I then consume 50g of complex carbs in the way of oats, along with 20g protein an hour or so later. Works for me. Others will advise you don't need carbs, or to limit them. I guess you'll have to trial end error what you need. My current diet keeps me energised and I like it, but others may find its too much carbs for them.

    Go for 50g of complex carbs and see how that goes.
    "I'll do today what others won't so I can do tomorrow what others can't" - such a fitting quote for bodybuilding!
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  3. #3
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Your diet plan and goals are odd.

    For example, you say you're not trying to bulk, but that you're trying to build "lean body mass". So, you're trying to gain weight without gaining weight?

    Also, you're taking useless supplements like glutamine and consuming whey and then BCAA's, despite whey protein's high concentration of whey. You're also eating 7 meals per day, each the caloric equivalent of a glass of milk. Why would you do that? You're also consuming a hazardous amount of tuna. Your dietary fat intake is insufficient, yet your protein intake is much higher than necessary. Total caloric intake is likely too low, but you don't mention your TDEE and your goals don't really make sense, so it's hard to say.

    Anyway, it looks like your diet was designed by a supplement company to be effective at making them money. If you want to learn how to design a program that is effective for you, please see:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136691851
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  4. #4
    Registered User x-ray vision's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlanApe View Post
    There's a lot of conflicting information about post workout nutrition
    So what? Some of it is based on extrapolation from irrelevant studies making it incorrect and some of it is correct.

    I typically consume 45g simple carbns & protein after workout as I work out at 5.30am and it sets me up for the day, and I then consume 50g of complex carbs in the way of oats, along with 20g protein an hour or so later. Works for me.
    So would eating the same stuff any other time of the day- and making sure our carbs are simple aren't giving you any special benefits.

    Go for 50g of complex carbs and see how that goes.
    There's no need for that.


    OP, check out pages 3 to 5.

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

    and

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821
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  5. #5
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    whey takes 1-3 hours to digest. You can draw the conclusion from that fact that supp companies say you need it for the 30 min PWO window when in fact it doesnt digest even close to that aka marketing stupid claims. Eat when you want and have it fit your satiety levels. Personally i like eating PWO because im starving so i go home and eat chicken and potatoes. No need for a stupid shake that will leave you hungrier than before
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    despite whey protein's high concentration of whey.
    Herp derp.
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  7. #7
    Chasing cats since 1967 WonderPug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BBqChicken1 View Post
    Herp derp.
    I actually went back to check if I typed that, as it's a type of mistake pugs do make...
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  8. #8
    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    well i'm on a cut, i was previously on 2000cal keto although i did cardio twice a day instead of once, so i dropped it a bit
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  9. #9
    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    Your diet plan and goals are odd.
    what's odd? I want to put on muscle and not put on fat doing so, possibly even dropping bf at the same time.

    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    you say you're not trying to bulk, but that you're trying to build "lean body mass". So, you're trying to gain weight without gaining weight?]
    when did i ever mention the word bulk? i said i want to build lean muscle. ideally i want to gain muscle but loose weight at the same time. and yes it can be done, in the past i dropped 10% bf staying the same weight.

    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    You're also eating 7 meals per day, each the caloric equivalent of a glass of milk. Why would you do that?
    it helps with keeping my hunger under control. there's no harm doing this, it's better than 3 large meals with 60-80g of protein per. i find eating smalls meals 3 hours apart works best for me.

    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    You're also consuming a hazardous amount of tuna.
    BS.
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  10. #10
    Registered User snorkelman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    ideally i want to gain muscle but loose [sic] weight at the same time. and yes it can be done, in the past i dropped 10% bf staying the same weight.
    It is an unrealistic goal for most people other than deconditioned athletes or newbies. Just cuz you did it before doesn't mean you will be able to do it again. I would pick a main goal (LBM gains or fat loss) and make sure you set up your caloric intake according to that main goal, and then make sure you lift.

    Oh yeah, if you are eating tuna every day, then don't be so quick to call b.s. on what pug told you.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    what's odd? I want to put on muscle and not put on fat doing so, possibly even dropping bf at the same time.



    when did i ever mention the word bulk? i said i want to build lean muscle. ideally i want to gain muscle but loose weight at the same time. and yes it can be done, in the past i dropped 10% bf staying the same weight.



    it helps with keeping my hunger under control. there's no harm doing this, it's better than 3 large meals with 60-80g of protein per. i find eating smalls meals 3 hours apart works best for me.



    BS.
    If you like eating the way you are and it doesn't harm your social life and make you feel uncomfortable, by all means keep doing it. People like different things and it doesn't matter how many times you eat.

    As for tuna, yes, it is dangerous. Let me quote this:

    Originally Posted by WonderPug View Post
    Consumption of more than a few ounces per week carries health risks. For specifics, please see:

    Quantitative approach for incorporating methylmercury risks and omega-3 fatty acid benefits in developing species-specific fish consumption advice. Ginsberg GL, et al. Environ Health Perspect. 2009 Feb;117(2):267-75. Full text at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...HP-117-267.pdf

    Good fish/bad fish: a composite benefit-risk by dose curve. Gochfeld M, Burger J. Neurotoxicology. 2005 Aug;26(4):511-20. Full text at: http://lifesci.rutgers.edu/~Burger/P...se%20curve.pdf

    Health benefits and potential risks related to consumption of fish or fish oil. Sidhu KS. Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. 2003 Dec;38(3):336-44. Full text available at: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...73230003001004

    NRDC mercury calculator available at: http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/m...ator/start.asp
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  12. #12
    Registered User x-ray vision's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    when did i ever mention the word bulk?
    Seriously? Re-read your OP.

    BS.
    Can you please share the info you got that claims that eating that much tuna every day is safe? Thanks.
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  13. #13
    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    Seriously? Re-read your OP.
    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    I'm not trying to bulk
    .

    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    Can you please share the info you got that claims that eating that much tuna every day is safe? Thanks.
    "nearly all fish and shellfish contain traces of mercury. For most people, the risk from mercury by eating fish and shellfish is not a health concern. Yet, some fish and shellfish contain higher levels of mercury that may harm an unborn baby or young child's developing nervous system."
    fda.gov/food/foodsafety/product-specificinformation/seafood/foodbornepathogenscontaminants/methylmercury/ucm115662.htm
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  14. #14
    Registered User x-ray vision's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    Seriously? Re-read your OP.

    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    I'm not trying to bulk
    And? WonderPug said:

    "you say you're not trying to bulk"

    You responded:

    "when did i ever mention the word bulk?"

    You just acknowledged that you said "I'm not trying to bulk", which is exactly what WonderPug claimed. Why ask "when did i ever mention the word bulk?", other than because you forgot what you said?

    "nearly all fish and shellfish contain traces of mercury. For most people, the risk from mercury by eating fish and shellfish is not a health concern. Yet, some fish and shellfish contain higher levels of mercury that may harm an unborn baby or young child's developing nervous system."
    fda.gov/food/foodsafety/product-specificinformation/seafood/foodbornepathogenscontaminants/methylmercury/ucm115662.htm
    Maybe because "most people" aren't eating one of the species of fish that contain high levels of mercury every day?
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  15. #15
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    For some reason that URL's not working for me. Glad to see conflicting evidence on tuna though.
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  16. #16
    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    my bad i thought he said i was trying to bulk.

    did you know that canned tuna normally has less mercury that fresh tuna? this is because the tuna that goes in the cans is caught at a young age, as compared to older fresh tuna.

    MIYO; put www infront of the link
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  17. #17
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    diet need atleast another 1000 calories to even be considered a bulk. and by bulk I mean even consider building muscle.
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  18. #18
    Registered User x-ray vision's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    did you know that canned tuna normally has less mercury that fresh tuna?
    I'd check the links in post #11 if I were you and planned on continuing to eat tuna every day.
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    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    I'd check the links in post #11 if I were you and planned on continuing to eat tuna every day.
    tldr

    i've been eating 2 small tins a day as part of my diet for nearly 12 months. on other forums this topic has come up many a time, and some of those members were consuming in excess of 500g of tuna per day
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    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    tldr
    Your call.

    i've been eating 2 small tins a day as part of my diet for nearly 12 months. on other forums this topic has come up many a time, and some of those members were consuming in excess of 500g of tuna per day
    My father has been smoking cigarettes every day for over 50 years and is as healthy as a horse.

    There have also been members on this board that have made wild claims that must be B.S. There are also members who have claimed they've been diagnosed as having mercury poisoning after having symptoms. If the evidence is too long for you to read, I'm not going to post here anymore to convince you to look at the evidence. As I said, your call.
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  21. #21
    Registered User antikk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    My father has been smoking cigarettes every day for over 50 years and is as healthy as a horse.
    good point lol. well i've got an appointment with a doctor within the next few days, i'll get his opinion
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  22. #22
    Registered User AlanApe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    So what? Some of it is based on extrapolation from irrelevant studies making it incorrect and some of it is correct.


    So would eating the same stuff any other time of the day- and making sure our carbs are simple aren't giving you any special benefits.


    There's no need for that.


    OP, check out pages 3 to 5.

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

    and

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821
    Seriously????? I think my post was quite balanced. Like I said, there's conflicting information over the years about the benefits and timings of PWO nutrition, and that's my point - trying to point it out to the OP.

    The rest of my post suggests quite clearly to trial things and see what works for him. Me, personally, I workout at 5.30 am after 7 hours of consuming no nutrients, so I like to put in some simple carbs. It gives me a boost. Like I said, others will give different opinions.

    50g of carbs after a workout - no need for it, and no need not for it.

    Simply answering the question of the OP. Its less carb consumption than his current PWO.

    Anyway, OP - figure out what works best for your macros for the day, and what leaves you satisfied and energised for the day.
    "I'll do today what others won't so I can do tomorrow what others can't" - such a fitting quote for bodybuilding!
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  23. #23
    Registered User x-ray vision's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlanApe View Post
    Seriously?????
    Seriously.

    I think my post was quite balanced. Like I said, there's conflicting information over the years about the benefits and timings of PWO nutrition, and that's my point - trying to point it out to the OP.
    Pointing out that there's conflicting information and advocating broscience is not balanced. Balanced recommendations would be those based on evidence. That there's bad information in the world is irrelevant.

    The rest of my post suggests quite clearly to trial things and see what works for him.
    The OP doesn't go more than three hours without eating as it is. Suggesting that ingestion of what seemingly is an arbitrary amount of carbs post workout (why 50g?) is going to "work" for him is just setting him up for more obsessive type behavior and it's not going to help anything work any better. It's impossible to make inconsequential diet changes and accurately conclude that it "worked" for you. "Hey, I've been taking glutamine for a few months, I definitely think I'm bigger." Or, one got bigger because that's what's supposed to happen when one pays more attention to diet and exercise. Considering the evidence regarding glutamine supplementation, the latter is more likely what occurred. The evidence says the conclusion should be the same if we replace "glutamine" with "nutrient timing."

    50g of carbs after a workout - no need for it, and no need not for it.
    Then suggesting something that you admit there's no need for to someone that ingests food and supplements seven times a day is stupid.
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    ^ Awesome series of posts, Xray.

    Very well articulated positions and very logically defended statements.
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  25. #25
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    Everything aside, I swapped the avocado for 125g brown rice for my 11.00am meal which equates to 30g complex carbs. good 2 go?
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    Everything aside? How about reading the links you were pointed to in this thread? See posts 3 and 4.
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    Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
    Everything aside? How about reading the links you were pointed to in this thread? See posts 3 and 4.
    you take me for being new to diet and nutrition, i do know my shiz.

    i'm roughly 800 cal under my tdee which i have found works best for me and my goals combined with nearly 1.5g protein per lb bodyweight.
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    I hate to question the almighty wonderpug but why do you say he is too high in protein if his weight is 167 and his intake is 119g? less than a gram per pound of body weight?
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    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    you take me for being new to diet and nutrition, i do know my shiz.
    We can see...


    Originally Posted by antikk View Post
    base carbs around your workouts, that way your body is utilizing them and they won't be stored as fat. consume excess carbs when your sitting around at home watching tv and they will be stored.
    Yes... I've started a log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159357321
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    Originally Posted by ArmsofIron View Post
    I hate to question the almighty wonderpug but why do you say he is too high in protein if his weight is 167 and his intake is 119g? less than a gram per pound of body weight?
    He isn't consuming 119g of protein.... Look at OP
    Yes... I've started a log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159357321
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