Chemistry teacher says excess protein can't be stored as fat

[JacqueAttack]

He claims that its excreted as nitrogenous waste, but that goes against the basic rules of calories.


So lets say one ate 1000 cals over maintenance consisting of 100% from protein, would he gain weight and even more so, fat?

[PhiSig2298]

Yes, you would gain fat

[Ash_au]

ask him what happens to the carbon skeleton on the amino acid.

[PerpetualMotion]

He claims that its excreted as nitrogenous waste, but that goes against the basic rules of calories.


So lets say one ate 1000 cals over maintenance consisting of 100% from protein, would he gain weight and even more so, fat?

Is the surplus protein or is the entire diet protein?

Read:

Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

Your Chem teacher isn't wrong but you're simply thinking about it in such a simplistic, unrealistic way. Obviously, in the absence of other nutrients then you will store fat but it is very unlikely (and impossible) to consume a diet entirely compromised of protein. As such, any fat intake would likely be stored as fat within the surplus as carbohydrates and protein are rarely converted to be stored as fat.

Read that article. It will teach you a lot.

[mhovanes21]

serious???

[t12jm]

Krebs Cycle /Thread

[RugbyTank]

bert stare him down, this is an edu fail

[sawoobley]

Here's Lyle's take: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post729648103

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post787452183

[drpandit]

only certain amount of protein can be stored in body , surplus in diet just might do you more good than bad as body gets more protein available for repairing and rebuilding tissues fibres ...

on downside i read that too much protein is bad as it may effect kidneys as they are big molecules and not easily filtered away , but i think that cause of lack of drinking adequate water

but 100 % protein diet is lethal i think as your body will just not enough carbs and will start using protein for energy sources will cause loads of ammonia with low energy supply ... and brain just might damaged and even hepatic coma ...

[JungleCat]

He claims that its excreted as nitrogenous waste, but that goes against the basic rules of calories.


So lets say one ate 1000 cals over maintenance consisting of 100% from protein, would he gain weight and even more so, fat?

Good thing he teaches chemistry and not nutrition.

[DDon1996]

Let me know when you eat nothing but 1000g of protein/day for a week.

[RealMenDeadLift]

Your body would shift substrate preference and would store much more CHO and Fats as body fat in the presence of a caloric surplus and excessive protein intake. The pathway for converting protein to body fat exists, but is extremely rarely utilized.

[t12jm]

Your body would shift substrate preference and would store much more CHO and Fats as body fat in the presence of a caloric surplus and excessive protein intake. The pathway for converting protein to body fat exists, but is extremely rarely utilized.

The point here being: there's no reason to attempt to limit fat gains by increasing protein with respect to fats/carbs.

[SuratusBrah]

Chem teacher is right sometimes we think we know more.

[John1197]

Good thing he teaches chemistry and not nutrition.

Usually if someone has dedicated their life to chemistry they will be right about chemistry related questions. There are many diets that use this idea of just having lean meats, or just having carbs (de-novo lipogenesis). Protein Calories (4 cal. per gram of protein) measure potential energy, not energy that WILL turn into fat. Gluconeogenesis is process that converts protein to fat, but only occurs when the body has no longer any "fuel" left so it takes protein and turn it into the fatty acid that it NEEDS. Now lets reflect on this, protein cannot be stored in the stomach because protein stores are muscles not organs. So if you body does somehow run out of energy (you have have gotten rid of most of the fat on your body) it would begin eating muscles. Then you would would be converting protein to fat.

Long story shorty short he is correct sort-of, humans CAN convert protein to fat but they DO NOT its just hard coded in our DNA not to use that function unless absolutely needed.

And JungleCat he would be a good nutritionist, seeing as he could teach you a thing or two

[t12jm]

Gluconeogenesis is process that converts protein to fat

Yo, strong first post and all, but this part smells bad.

gluco(sugar)neo(new)genesis(make) -- make new sugar.

[waqas11]

Your chemistry teacher needs a...








Slap!!

[feltmann]

Yo, strong first post and all, but this part smells bad.

gluco(sugar)neo(new)genesis(make) -- make new sugar.

This, it will be converted to sugars then either burned for energy of stored as fat.
But its only around 57% efficient so if you eat an extra 100 calories from protein that you dont end up using, only 57 cals will end up stored as fat.

[hankst]

Your chemistry teacher needs a...
Slap!!

Actually it's a thread backfire. Protein does not usually get stored as fat.

This, it will be converted to sugars then either burned for energy of stored as fat.
But its only around 57% efficient so if you eat an extra 100 calories from protein that you dont end up using, only 57 cals will end up stored as fat.

Glucose also doesn't usually get stored as fat, either. De novo lipogenesis in humans is very inefficient.

That said, it's a very limited way to look at things, or are you eating protein exclusively?
I'd suggest all of you read this: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

[AlanApe]

ask him what happens to the carbon skeleton on the amino acid.

???? What?????

I'd like to know too. Google scholar, here I come!

Interesting thread this. I'll have to have a look at this. I suppose it fits in with Dr Atkin's diet principles. But as he himself proved, its not verty sustainable in the long run.

[mattypoole]

but 100 % protein diet is lethal i think as your body will just not enough carbs and will start using protein for energy sources will cause loads of ammonia with low energy supply ... and brain just might damaged and even hepatic coma ...

Nope, your body doesn't need carbs at all.

There are only essential fatty acids and essential amino acids.

A diet with only protein wouldn't be healthy, but that has nothing to do with the absence of carbs.

[hankst]

Nope, your body doesn't need carbs at all.

There are only essential fatty acids and essential amino acids.

A diet with only protein wouldn't be healthy, but that has nothing to do with the absence of carbs.

"wouldn't be healthy" = you would die
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

[TomBremner]

Your body would shift substrate preference and would store much more CHO and Fats as body fat in the presence of a caloric surplus and excessive protein intake. The pathway for converting protein to body fat exists, but is extremely rarely utilized.

The point here being: there's no reason to attempt to limit fat gains by increasing protein with respect to fats/carbs.

Nope, your body doesn't need carbs at all.

There are only essential fatty acids and essential amino acids.

A diet with only protein wouldn't be healthy, but that has nothing to do with the absence of carbs.

"wouldn't be healthy" = you would die
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

all of theese. protein cant be stored as fat. but can be converted to glucose, which if glycogen stores are exceed can further be turned to triglyceride which can be.

[hankst]

which if glycogen stores are exceed can further be turned to triglyceride which can be.

which usually doesn't happen, because it takes a hefty amount of day-long carb overfeeding to occur

But that's all worthless without context anyway. If you're eating a balanced diet and take in more energy than you expend, you will gain fat (because the ratios of stored and oxidized nutrients shift).

[JasonDB]

To summerize the other points in the thread:

1) a minimal amount of surplus dietary protein is likely to be stored as bodyfat, however it is possible.

2) even if zero protein calories eaten could be converted into substrates that can be stored as bodyfat, and could only contribute to metabolic functions, fuel sources and building blocks for lean tissue... it would not negate the other foods eaten. If you added 1000 protein calories to a balanced eating plan to create a caloric surplus and 1000 calories of carbs and 1000 calories of fat were already being eaten... it could just as easily be reasoned that one is eating a surplus of 1000 calories in the form of carbs and/or fat. No one eats a diet comprised 100% of protein, nor could such a diet sustain life for long periods of time in humans.

[TomBremner]

To summerize the other points in the thread:

1) a minimal amount of surplus dietary protein is likely to be stored as bodyfat, however it is possible.

2) even if zero protein calories eaten could be converted into substrates that can be stored as bodyfat, and could only contribute to metabolic functions, fuel sources and building blocks for lean tissue... it would not negate the other foods eaten. If you added 1000 protein calories to a balanced eating plan to create a caloric surplus and 1000 calories of carbs and 1000 calories of fat were already being eaten... it could just as easily be reasoned that one is eating a surplus of 1000 calories in the form of carbs and/or fat. No one eats a diet comprised 100% of protein, nor could such a diet sustain life for long periods of time in humans.

kinda off topic since the OP has been answered about 50 times but hasnt overfeeding on protein been shown to increase muscle mass moreso than any other macronutrient? i think martin brought it up a few weeks ago

[hankst]

^
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/239854.php

[JasonDB]

kinda off topic since the OP has been answered about 50 times but hasnt overfeeding on protein been shown to increase muscle mass moreso than any other macronutrient? i think martin brought it up a few weeks ago

There are diminishing returns on this of course, but overfeeding in general increases muscle growth even in sedintary individuals. Obese people general have much more lbm and muscle weight than people at average bodyweights. I would not recommend someone who is natural consume 2+g of protein per lbs of bodyweight simply in the hopes of gains in muscle from it. 1g+/lbs of bw as we often do in bodybuilding is protein overfeeding.

[TomBremner]

There are diminishing returns on this of course, but overfeeding in general increases muscle growth even in sedintary individuals. Obese people general have much more lbm and muscle weight than people at average bodyweights. I would not recommend someone who is natural consume 2+g of protein per lbs of bodyweight simply in the hopes of gains in muscle from it. 1g+/lbs of bw as we often do in bodybuilding is protein overfeeding.

gotcha, you and hankst are on spread.

[rhizome]

all of theese. protein cant be stored as fat. but can be converted to glucose, which if glycogen stores are exceed can further be turned to triglyceride which can be.

um no. Protein isn't converted to glucose then converted to fat. If protein is converted to fatty acids it is converted DIRECTLY to fatty acids.

This thread is so full of biochem fail I want to neg everyone.