ZMA = All Hype, no results????

**asuguy** · 02-10-2007, 02:48 AM

First, I read this:

A 1999 study was undertaken on NCAA Football players during an 8 week spring training program. Those who took the ZMA tablets showed greater increases in muscle strength, free testosterone levels, and IGF-1 levels. These ZMA study results were presented by Dr. Brilla (a sports performance researcher at Western Washington University) on June 2, 1999, at the 46th Annual Meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine in Seattle, Washington. It is important to note that this study was funded by SNAC Systems Inc. (the patent holders) and that one of the study's authors (Victor Conte, creator of ZMA) has equity in this company.

Another study in 2004 found that ZMA has no effect on strength or hormone levels, but did show a lower rate of muscle catabolism and cited further study was recommended.

Then I read the other study:

http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.or...2-12-20-04.pdf

It shows ZMA actually LOWERED testosterone and increased cortisol, granted only a wee bit.

Now, I'm confused. Buy more ZMA, don't buy more ZMA....sigh

**Achilles_** · 02-10-2007, 02:56 AM

Don't buy for test enhancing, only buy if you want to sleep deeper..... and have crazy dreams

**PopeGregorius** · 02-10-2007, 03:10 AM

I've got it, I think its useless.

The only study that showed results was authored by ZMA's inventor Victor Conte, a fraudster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

**LatissimusDorsi** · 02-10-2007, 04:04 AM

The only benefits I got from it is that I could remember my dreams the next day.

**asuguy** · 02-10-2007, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by GregT

I've got it, I think its useless.

The only study that showed results was authored by ZMA's inventor Victor Conte, a fraudster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

Patrick Arnold helped him? oh my the things I learnt today...

canceling ZMA Order. think ill stick to zinc only.

**Lonny** · 02-10-2007, 04:39 AM

ZMA isn't a miracle test booster, Its merely a few minerals that athletes are often deficient in. Low zinc=low test levels.

It isn't going to noticeably much for most people other than help them sleep, but due to its cost and potential upside it may be worth the risk.

**asuguy** · 02-10-2007, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lonny

ZMA isn't a miracle test booster, Its merely a few minerals that athletes are often deficient in. Low zinc=low test levels.

It isn't going to noticeably much for most people other than help them sleep, but due to its cost and potential upside it may be worth the risk.

hey tell whoever is in charge to stop using blue capsules for Blue Up stim free. i dont wanna swallow blue capsules. why not use blue veggie caps? ive been using my own custom stack but id rather use blue up since it worked for me in past.

**ceilos456** · 02-10-2007, 05:08 AM

no need for it, total waste of money ! i used it and did nothing at all for me

**FarEastBeast** · 02-10-2007, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by asuguy

Patrick Arnold helped him? oh my the things I learnt today...

canceling ZMA Order. think ill stick to zinc only.

You should be taking a multi and thus getting enough zinc and mag anyway. But FWIW I took ZMA for awhile and I don't think it does anything. For those looking for a natural sleep aid, I think melatonin is much better. Conte is definitely a fraudster, and he pulled off a big one with ZMA.

**Big Poppa S** · 02-10-2007, 06:02 AM

ZMA (an tribulus) are never going to raise your test levels beyond what they already are, IMO that's a huge fallacy. The only time either of these products are effective is when you are in a state of lowered test levels. For example say you are dieting for a comp, doing a low fat, low carb diet, then it *MAY* help to supplement with ZMA (or tribulus) in order to maintain test levels, Or, for those 30+ years old who are experiencing a natural lowering of test levels due to age, it *MAY* also be effective. But as always if you believe it will work you'll see more results than if you don't believe in what you're taking.

**Dublo** · 02-10-2007, 06:18 AM

I personally think it's stupid to waste money on something like ZMA. **** it.
Just eat properly, and get plenty vitamins in during the day.

**Lonny** · 02-10-2007, 06:20 AM

Ok, guys.

ZMA is not a wonder supplement. Most people are not going to notice anything big from ZMA aside from better sleep.

Zinc and Mag are 2 of the most essential nutrients. They are involved in hundreds of reactions in the body and when you have insufficient amounts of them, your natural test levels are lowered. Multi's are good, but Calcium interferes with zinc absorption and this can prevent zinc from being absorbed.

Conte was a scam artist and a lot of other bad things, but the general science behind ZMA is decent, the asparate forms are not necessary, and if you can make it yourself for cheap then do it.

I know most people don't "notice" results from it, but I notice more "results" from it than I do a multi and its only a bit more expensive so I use both.

**newequation** · 02-10-2007, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by ceilos456

no need for it, total waste of money ! i used it and did nothing at all for me

I know what you mean, bro! I stopped taking a multi too because I went through a whole bottle of them and didnt notice a thing. Im also wondering if whey is a scam, even two scoops has no noticable effects...no pumps or nothing.

**kennethcr** · 02-10-2007, 07:04 AM

ZMA did not help me a lot, but I have a hard timee sleeping more the 4 hours straight, so I will start using it agian... but did not help in strenght or size...

**Mugie** · 02-10-2007, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by newequation

I know what you mean, bro! I stopped taking a multi too because I went through a whole bottle of them and didnt notice a thing. Im also wondering if whey is a scam, even two scoops has no noticable effects...no pumps or nothing.

Whey isn't going to give you pumps....

**KingOfChaos** · 02-10-2007, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by newequation

I know what you mean, bro! I stopped taking a multi too because I went through a whole bottle of them and didnt notice a thing. Im also wondering if whey is a scam, even two scoops has no noticable effects...no pumps or nothing.

Whey is cheese powder...it's meant to give you extra protein for growth, not to give you a pump. :P

**Workin2005** · 02-10-2007, 08:16 AM

I'm a bit biased, but look into "POSEIDON"...it contains all the zinc and Mag you need (with the perfect delivery system)...and that's just the beginning ;-)

Workin

**psych** · 02-10-2007, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by newequation

I know what you mean, bro! I stopped taking a multi too because I went through a whole bottle of them and didnt notice a thing. Im also wondering if whey is a scam, even two scoops has no noticable effects...no pumps or nothing.

lol pump from whey

**SavageOne** · 02-10-2007, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Achilles_

Don't buy for test enhancing, only buy if you want to sleep deeper..... and have crazy dreams

That's pretty much the only thing that I've noticed. At least ZMA isn't incredibly expensive.

**Androgenic** · 02-10-2007, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Lonny

Ok, guys.

ZMA is not a wonder supplement. Most people are not going to notice anything big from ZMA aside from better sleep.

Zinc and Mag are 2 of the most essential nutrients. They are involved in hundreds of reactions in the body and when you have insufficient amounts of them, your natural test levels are lowered. Multi's are good, but Calcium interferes with zinc absorption and this can prevent zinc from being absorbed.

Conte was a scam artist and a lot of other bad things, but the general science behind ZMA is decent, the asparate forms are not necessary, and if you can make it yourself for cheap then do it.

I know most people don't "notice" results from it, but I notice more "results" from it than I do a multi and its only a bit more expensive so I use both.

Absolutely. Good post. Anecdotally, when I take it I sleep deeper (recovery) and wake up pitching a tent, everytime (uhh, you tell me what that means). I agree you could take zinc by itself to support testosterone, but don't deny it. Zinc is often deficient, which lowers immunity and testosterone. Bodybuilders need to take more than the RDA. Also the more you ejaculate the more you need to take additional zinc, and yes that is study based. Zinc-copper is the better pairing to me as too much zinc can lead to a copper deficiency and create anemia and other issues that would decrease recovery and performance and that may have been what happened in that study. Magnesium is an incredible mineral and again is often deficient in athletes. Its effect on performance with cardiac tissue, muscle, recovery, delayed fatigue, etc. are well studied...in accord of 1000s of studies for athletes, cardiac rehab, etc. etc. You can't write off to essential minerals, its foolishness. Now to say the exact way Conte has it, is the only way is foolish too. I'd buy Zinc-Copper in a 10:1-15:1 ratio by solarray or AOR or some others out there. Magnesium I'd get in a good perworkout formulation to increase performance. Or take it to aid in sleep.

**dragonpit** · 02-10-2007, 08:43 AM

read my thread on "best night time stack"

**hunterh88** · 02-10-2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by newequation

I know what you mean, bro! I stopped taking a multi too because I went through a whole bottle of them and didnt notice a thing. Im also wondering if whey is a scam, even two scoops has no noticable effects...no pumps or nothing.

I think he was kidding ;o

**psych** · 02-10-2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by hunterh88

I think he was kidding ;o

yesh probably but what makes it even funnier is that there ARE people who actually expect to get pumps on anything (whey, garbage supplement etc etc)

**Lonny** · 02-10-2007, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by newequation

I know what you mean, bro! I stopped taking a multi too because I went through a whole bottle of them and didnt notice a thing. Im also wondering if whey is a scam, even two scoops has no noticable effects...no pumps or nothing.

This is one of the funniest satirical posts I've read in a long time. If it is satirical...

And thanks for backing me Shawn. I first really started to love Mag when I was working at 6 am, and would have trouble going to sleep at a decent hour, as well as needed to feel like I had an extra few hours of sleep in me. As for zinc, there was a study done recently about how taking it in the early stages of a cold either prevents the cold from going full blown, or reduces the severity of it.

Its easy to toss around the "worthless" label on ZMA because it is marketed so wrongly by companies, but to call it garbage or worthless overall is just plain wrong.

**blitzdn** · 02-10-2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by hunterh88

I think he was kidding ;o

Lol @ people who couldn't recognize this.

**FarEastBeast** · 02-10-2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by blitzdn

Lol @ people who couldn't recognize this.

It can be hard to tell sometimes, especially if a guy has very few posts.

**ericpeavey** · 02-10-2007, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Achilles_

Don't buy for test enhancing, only buy if you want to sleep deeper..... and have crazy dreams

i second this, the only reason i take ZMA is for increased sleep

**eldawg** · 02-10-2007, 05:22 PM

Shawn, Lonny - great posts guys!

**asuguy** · 02-10-2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by FarEastBeast

You should be taking a multi and thus getting enough zinc and mag anyway. But FWIW I took ZMA for awhile and I don't think it does anything. For those looking for a natural sleep aid, I think melatonin is much better. Conte is definitely a fraudster, and he pulled off a big one with ZMA.

What made you think I didn't take a multi? I do. Yeah I also take melatonin most nights and people who think ZMA helps with sleep need to try melatonin first.

**PieEyedPiper** · 02-10-2007, 10:46 PM

Hasn't melatonin been shown to decrease test though? I swear I read that in the giant, PA vs. Big Cat vs. Dr. D, thread.

anyways, I love ZMA, I get bigger loads and better sleep. Hard to ask much more from just 2 minerals and some B6.

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