Strength training brings the best size and aesthetics(Long Read but, well worth it)

[NZninja101]

Will address thread.

Okay, I've seen way to many threads lately with people who still aren't even at 315/225/405(Squat/Bench/Deadlift) but are somewhat close wanting to jump onto a bodybuilding split. This is ridiculous for some reason they want to jump onto a BB split and say they just want size. Have you ever seen a guy with a 500 squat and 405 bench that looks small? What about a 405 Squat and 315 bench? I'm going to attempt to try to make this simple and pretty easy to understand.

Sort of yes actually.


Just because guys with those lifts are generally big guys doesn't make strength training for those lifts the most efficient way to put on size. It isn't.

1) When you are a beginner Strength Training produces faster size results than Bodybuilding

Maybe if they're running a bro split.

I really don't see why all of you have such a hard on to train standard bodybuilding splits(I.e. Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, etc.). When you are a beginner your results will come much faster(in the long run) by training the movement and getting your CNS firing appropriately to perform movement.Lets use a little bit of common sense here, are you going to get bigger by Bench 150 3x12 and really feeling the pump or 225+ for 3x5. Obviously the 225+ the intensity is also higher also the volume is lower, making it so you are not completely shot and able to train your bench or other presses later on in the week.

Higher intensity =/= more growth. Why not do singles all the time if that were the case?

If doing 3 sets of 12 on bench means you're too fatigued to bench later in the week, then you have something wrong with you.

3)Frequency>>Intensity>>>>Volume.
If you wanted to get better at anything what would you do? You would practice that thing often. It amazes me how many people want to get a bigger bench or other lift yet, they do it once or twice a week. If you want to get better at a lift practice it more.

If that were true, then why not do the same lifts every day? Or 2 times a day? You *can* do this but volume and intensity must be altered a lot and at the end of the day it's pointless doing the same lift every day.


There is little evidence that 3 times a week > 2 times for beginners.

4) Over-training is bull
It doesn't exist. Under recovery exists. Under recovery happens by not eating enough and not stretching post workout. I have been squatting upwards of 90% of my max twice a day, every day for the past month. Guess what happened? Did I over train? No, my squat has shot up well over 50 pounds.

That's nice. But over training does actually exist. The point of overtraining is just different for different people.

Common Responses
What if I just want to look strong and, not be strong?
It's much easier to look strong when you are strong

No it's not. It's easier to look strong when you do a good hypertrophy routine which will grow your muscles more than a strength routine.

But, strength trainees are all fat.
No, super heavyweights are fat because, they gave up on aesthetics a long time ago and now just want to lift the most weight. Atheletes who in the 220 and under categories and who are in the correct category all look great.

Strength training + assistance lifts + celltech = nice physique.

But, I never get sore from strength workouts.
DOMS(Delayed onset muscle soreness) isn't indicative of a good workout. A good workout isn't measured by how sore you are or how hard it was. A good workout is measured by does it elicit the appropriate response to get what you want out of your body. Crossfit workouts are hard, yet they produce nothing but, mediocre athletes and injuries.

Crossfit produces results. Not good results, but it does more than sitting on the couch.

How long should I rest between sets?
As long as it takes you to be sure you can get the next one. There have been days I've rested ten minutes and the sets were still grinders. The most important thing is to still move more weight than before.

The most important thing is to progressively overload the muscle, regarding which weight is but 1 (important) factor.

But, all the pros only work a muscle once a week
All the pros are also on cell tech. The majority of natural trainees need to work a muscle at least twice a week as protein synthesis only last 48-72 hours post workout. Also, because of the cell tech they do not have to worry about muscle loss.

Agreed.

OMG I can't see my abs anymore.
Congrats, you don't weigh 130 pounds anymore. Fat accumulation happens when you try to gain muscle. Fat is a lot easier to lose than muscle is to gain.

I have a feeling you think that gaining 20 pounds in 2 months is a good thing.

[TheBuffmuffin]

Yeah everyone listen to OP, his aesthetics are non existent. I'll continue on my bro split.

Idc if someone can lift more than me, I just like looking good.

[bravo96]

Will address thread.




Sort of yes actually.


Just because guys with those lifts are generally big guys doesn't make strength training for those lifts the most efficient way to put on size. It isn't.




Maybe if they're running a bro split.




Higher intensity =/= more growth. Why not do singles all the time if that were the case?

If doing 3 sets of 12 on bench means you're too fatigued to bench later in the week, then you have something wrong with you.






If that were true, then why not do the same lifts every day? Or 2 times a day? You *can* do this but volume and intensity must be altered a lot and at the end of the day it's pointless doing the same lift every day.


There is little evidence that 3 times a week > 2 times for beginners.




That's nice. But over training does actually exist. The point of overtraining is just different for different people.



No it's not. It's easier to look strong when you do a good hypertrophy routine which will grow your muscles more than a strength routine.



Strength training + assistance lifts + celltech = nice physique.



Crossfit produces results. Not good results, but it does more than sitting on the couch.



The most important thing is to progressively overload the muscle, regarding which weight is but 1 (important) factor.




Agreed.




I have a feeling you think that gaining 20 pounds in 2 months is a good thing.

pretty much all this. lol this site has come a long way.

i remember a few years ago when i was constantly put in the red for questioning why people recommended ss so much.

[Tb0282]

I don't agree with op at all. Ninja covered my thoughts pretty well

[IASONA]

That feel when you see a thread from over a 1 1/2 years being bumped, and you were one of the first posters in that thread.
Even then i never agreed with ss lol, only agreed with the frequency part. Glad to know my beliefs haven't changed.

Its very nice to see how much this section has changed. I rememeber when i first joined, SS was the only routine spoken of here. I even remember seing people getting negged for even questioning ss lol.

[DerekEt]

Uh OP... I bench 315 for reps and can squat 405 for a reps and I'm small. Unless you want to consider poverty 17 inch arms and tiny legs small. I can also link about 10,000 youtube videos of small skinny asians squatting 500-600+ pounds who also are small.

I looked 2x the size I am now when I was training like a bodybuilder, got up to 215 pounds, and was doing high reps+high volume on a 1.5-2x a week frequency. Sorry, but you failed at making this point. Strength is primarily neural, especially when the trainee is training in the 3-5 rep range.

Terrible argument, that is all.


EDIT: Ninja pretty much went to town and said it all.

[Hamzzza]

great write up dude, well done


edit: you can argue a lot about it obviously...but ffs the world would be a better place if every 120 lbs bro split ******* saw this

[NZninja101]

pretty much all this. lol this site has come a long way.

i remember a few years ago when i was constantly put in the red for questioning why people recommended ss so much.

I don't agree with op at all. Ninja covered my thoughts pretty well

ty men

great write up dude, well done


edit: you can argue a lot about it obviously...but ffs the world would be a better place if every 120 lbs bro split ******* saw this

You know... That might actually be the case simply because of the numbers of misguided novices that do terrible terrible hypertrophy routines instead of a decent strength routine.

I don't even disagree with putting a completely untrained person on BLSS for a couple of months, but I wouldn't keep them there for very long.

[bille318]

When I read this a while back I considered disproving you with the "knowledge" I thought I had. Now that I've done some real research (Maximum Muscle by Matthew Perryman, must read for everyone, its free as well), I've came back to say that you're entirely right, and your advice and strength training has helped me immensely. Great post. I wasted a year "lifting for mass". Now I'm on the right track.

[UkChris93]

best thread ever created srs