Strength training brings the best size and aesthetics(Long Read but, well worth it)

[bertybots]

Agreed with pretty much everything OP, I have toyed with 5 day splits especially when beginning but nothing beats progressing in weights/reps for mass. As for over-training i'm pretty sure your joints will give out before you enter that state, speaking from experience ive squatted 4-5x a week hit back/chest 3x and never got close to "overtrained.

[judowrestler1]

if you ask ANY bodybuilder who has gone far in competitions they will tell you they dont lift solely for strength, you make a few good points in your post ill admit but if you take two identical lifters with ~5 years experience, same diet but one lifts solely for mass anf the other trains solely for strength i think its pretty obv who will have better size gains

Show me a bodybuilder who has gone far in competition who can't hit 405/315/500. Go on I'll wait.

Well the problem with SS that it neglects the shoulders. And tbh, those are just benchmarks, you don't necessarily have to hit them before you start going for strength.
I'm fairly close to those numbers ..

SS does not neglect the shoulders 3x5 on bench or strict press is a good shoulder workout.

[CurlBrah]

No you will not get good shoulders by just doing bench press.
You're pretty much neglecting the back delts which is basically a one way ticket to snap city.

[judowrestler1]

No you will not get good shoulders by just doing bench press.
You're pretty much neglecting the back delts which is basically a one way ticket to snap city.

BRB strict press.

[ggggllo]

Show me a bodybuilder who has gone far in competition who can't hit 405/315/500 who can't hit. Go on I'll wait.

They all can. but that doesn't matter. you don't need a strength program to achieve that.

[7399martyn]

Thanks, I figured that would be the point that most people disagreed on. Everyone has their opinion on it and, both sides have about as much proof as the next. In reality it probably comes down to the individual knowing how quickly they recover and what they are capable of.

how often do you do pressing movements? how often do you do rows and pull ups?

They all can. but that doesn't matter. you don't need a strength program to achieve that.

getting stronger is the most direct way to build muscle.

[judowrestler1]

They all can. but that doesn't matter. you don't need a strength program to achieve that.

Hmm achieve in 2-2.5 years on a strength program
or
achieve in 4+ years on a hypertrophy

The choice is simple.

[ggggllo]

Hmm achieve in 2-2.5 years on a strength program
or
achieve in 4+ years on a hypertrophy

The choice is simple.

I'd choose a hypertrophy routine, any day.

Why would one who trains for size, do a strength routine? Because someone with high rep power said so?

[judowrestler1]

how often do you do pressing movements? how often do you do rows and pull ups?

Was basically just going by feel for a while. I'm going to start doing Hepburn Singles on Mondays for Bench and Thursdays for strict press. Rows will be done on Tuesday and Pull Ups on Thursday.In all honesty I'm probably the last person someone should try to emulate when it comes to training.

[judowrestler1]

I'd choose a hypertrophy routine, any day.

Why would one who trains for size, do a strength routine? Because someone with high rep power said so?

Someone didn't read the original post. Lol at me having high rep. I'm bottom of the barrel bud. Whatever, it's your choice you can take the advice from someone who has been there and whom strong people with great hypertrophy agree with. Or, you can do what you want either way I'm not losing sleep. Don't be upset when people pass you by quickly though.

[Ka0s]

Sticky

[ggggllo]

Someone didn't read the original post. Lol at me having high rep. I'm bottom of the barrel bud. Whatever, it's your choice you can take the advice from someone who has been there and whom strong people with great hypertrophy agree with. Or, you can do what you want either way I'm not losing sleep. Don't be upset when people pass you by quickly though.

You didn't answer the question...

[Jeffbelittle]

I'd choose a hypertrophy routine, any day.

Why would one who trains for size, do a strength routine? Because someone with high rep power said so?

I'll answer the question.

Because if you eat right when doing a strength routine: you'll get size and strength.

You don't get 20 inch arms from bicep curling 20 pounds in each hand.

[ggggllo]

I'll answer the question.

Because if you eat right when doing a strength routine: you'll get size and strength.

You don't get 20 inch arms from bicep curling 20 pounds in each hand.

I hammer curl 75's and have never done bicep more than once a week.

[7399martyn]

I'd choose a hypertrophy routine, any day.

Why would one who trains for size, do a strength routine? Because someone with high rep power said so?

how would you gain size doing the same workout over and over? same weight, same reps, same sets?

Theres two things you need to gain muscle. Get stronger and eat more.

If your 1RM goes up, youve gotten stronger.
If your 10RM goes up, youve gotten stronger.
If you can do the same weight but more sets, youve gotten stronger.
If you can do the same workout in a shorter time, youve gotten stronger.
If you can do the same workout more frequently, youve gotten stronger.

[judowrestler1]

I hammer curl 75's and have never done bicep more than once a week.

That's awesome bro you are super strong. Already well past the point were any advice I have would be of any help. Good luck with your hypertrophy goals in 2012.

[Jeffbelittle]

I hammer curl 75's and have never done bicep more than once a week.

You're missing the point.

Someone running a strength program will put on mass from eating right while acquiring great strength. If he wants to switch to hypertrophy training after he becomes strong, he can.

Someone running a hypertrophy program won't be getting equal output.



That is to say:

Strength training + eating right will result in X1 strength and Y1 mass. Body splits as a weak **** will result in X2 Strength and Y2 Mass.

X1+Y1 > X2+Y2.

[Raxx]

i mean it can go either way, didnt read op but still your gonna find users on here who have done nothing but a split hitting their major parts 2-3 a week while still maintaining a "bodybuilder" split layout and have gotten tremendous progress better then some of those doing the strength routine. Then you'll have members who have only done strength routines and are way bigger then those who did the split. I think the article you just wrote is an article written on common sense on the fact that if your stronger you'll lift more weight and get bigger in size which is like killing two birds with one stone. But then again op, i could name some members on here who have made solid gains in a short period of time who have done nothing but a high volume/frequency split since they first picked up a weight and are bigger then many members on here.

[Ka0s]

But then again op, i could name some members on here who have made solid gains in a short period of time who have done nothing but a high volume/frequency split since they first picked up a weight and are bigger then many members on here.

Name some, as long as they are natty

[Raxx]

Name some, as long as they are natty

how'd i know someone was gonna call me out?

[Ka0s]

how'd i know someone was gonna call me out?

because you make silly claims

[ggggllo]

how would you gain size doing the same workout over and over? same weight, same reps, same sets?

Theres two things you need to gain muscle. Get stronger and eat more.

If your 1RM goes up, youve gotten stronger.
If your 10RM goes up, youve gotten stronger.
If you can do the same weight but more sets, youve gotten stronger.
If you can do the same workout in a shorter time, youve gotten stronger.
If you can do the same workout more frequently, youve gotten stronger.

I can manage all of those on a split just fine. I set a PR every workout. and anyone can, they don't need a strength routine to do it.

[7399martyn]

whos gonna gain more strength, someone squatting 1x a week, or someone squatting 7x a week?

[Ka0s]

whos gonna gain more strength, someone squatting 1x a week, or someone squatting 7x a week?

trick question. someone squatting 2-3x

[BloodDrunk92]

Great article man! thanks for typing that up

[Ka0s]

I can manage all of those on a split just fine. I set a PR every workout. and anyone can, they don't need a strength routine to do it.

I'm curious as to what some of your other PRs are (bench, squat, deads, overheads?)

[judowrestler1]

whos gonna gain more strength, someone squatting 1x a week, or someone squatting 7x a week?

Not sure if directed at me. I'd go with the 7x-er because, of all the practice his neural connections grow stronger making squatting much easier.

[ggggllo]

whos gonna gain more strength, someone squatting 1x a week, or someone squatting 7x a week?

I don't train for strength.

[XShreddedX]

i believe a minimalistic approach to training is the best.

Progressive overload(gaining strength) + working your ass off every day = results

[judowrestler1]

trick question. someone squatting 2-3x

Actually I made the quickest progress when I started squatting 2x a day every day. Then again I don't really advise that for most people. I think I got lucky and responded well to it. Someone else could try it and get injured really quickly.