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  1. #1
    Registered User judowrestler1's Avatar
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    Strength training brings the best size and aesthetics(Long Read but, well worth it)

    Okay, I've seen way to many threads lately with people who still aren't even at 315/225/405(Squat/Bench/Deadlift) but are somewhat close wanting to jump onto a bodybuilding split. This is ridiculous for some reason they want to jump onto a BB split and say they just want size. Have you ever seen a guy with a 500 squat and 405 bench that looks small? What about a 405 Squat and 315 bench? I'm going to attempt to try to make this simple and pretty easy to understand.

    1) When you are a beginner Strength Training produces faster size results than Bodybuilding
    I really don't see why all of you have such a hard on to train standard bodybuilding splits(I.e. Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, etc.). When you are a beginner your results will come much faster(in the long run) by training the movement and getting your CNS firing appropriately to perform movement.Lets use a little bit of common sense here, are you going to get bigger by Bench 150 3x12 and really feeling the pump or 225+ for 3x5. Obviously the 225+ the intensity is also higher also the volume is lower, making it so you are not completely shot and able to train your bench or other presses later on in the week.


    2)The Pump is useless.
    Yes, it is just like coming(thanks a lot Arnold) but, you should never seek out the pump as a goal. When you enter the gym you should have 1 goal in mind, that is to lift more weight in a shorter time span than you did last time. This does not mean you will always have to add weight to the bar. Indeed, there will be days when you simply can not add weight to the bar. In this case you should do more volume than you did yesterday

    3)Frequency>>Intensity>>>>Volume.
    If you wanted to get better at anything what would you do? You would practice that thing often. It amazes me how many people want to get a bigger bench or other lift yet, they do it once or twice a week. If you want to get better at a lift practice it more.

    4) Over-training is bull
    It doesn't exist. Under recovery exists. Under recovery happens by not eating enough and not stretching post workout. I have been squatting upwards of 90% of my max twice a day, every day for the past month. Guess what happened? Did I over train? No, my squat has shot up well over 50 pounds.

    Common Responses
    What if I just want to look strong and, not be strong?
    It's much easier to look strong when you are strong

    But, strength trainees are all fat.
    No, super heavyweights are fat because, they gave up on aesthetics a long time ago and now just want to lift the most weight. Atheletes who in the 220 and under categories and who are in the correct category all look great.

    But, I never get sore from strength workouts.
    DOMS(Delayed onset muscle soreness) isn't indicative of a good workout. A good workout isn't measured by how sore you are or how hard it was. A good workout is measured by does it elicit the appropriate response to get what you want out of your body. Crossfit workouts are hard, yet they produce nothing but, mediocre athletes and injuries.

    How long should I rest between sets?
    As long as it takes you to be sure you can get the next one. There have been days I've rested ten minutes and the sets were still grinders. The most important thing is to still move more weight than before.

    But, all the pros only work a muscle once a week
    All the pros are also on cell tech. The majority of natural trainees need to work a muscle at least twice a week as protein synthesis only last 48-72 hours post workout. Also, because of the cell tech they do not have to worry about muscle loss.

    OMG I can't see my abs anymore.
    Congrats, you don't weigh 130 pounds anymore. Fat accumulation happens when you try to gain muscle. Fat is a lot easier to lose than muscle is to gain.

    But, my back hurts when I squat or deadlift.
    In this case you have five options
    1)Fix your technique
    2)See 1
    3)If your technique is perfect(It isn't), man up.
    4)Be a wimp
    5)If you are actually injured, go see a doctor to get what's wrong with you fixed. If it's the best it can get, look into front squats and sumo deadlifts.

    Squat Resources
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...7815533&page=1
    Youtube "So you think you can squat" or "Squat RX"

    Deadlift Resources



    I already have a 225 bench and 315 squat, but my deadlift is only at 350. Can I move on.
    No, you're squatting high.

    I can't gain weight.
    Eat More

    I already eat a lot.
    No, you don't.

    My program reccomendations:

    Babylover's Starting Strength until you reach your 315/225/405

    After this do the Texas Method or 5/3/1 until you reach 405/315/500

    Here is where you should start customizing to see what works for your body. I'd would try out programs such as 5/3/1(Any variation), PHAT, Hepburn Singles, and the Juggernaut Method to see what works best for your body.

    Here is a video of me Pause Squatting 405 to lend some credibility(This is after a long singles workout BTW)



    And me while I'm fat as Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. In about two months of cutting down I'll be aesthetic as Fuark.



    Cliffs-If you're too lazy to read it you are missing out.
    Last edited by judowrestler1; 01-07-2012 at 01:04 PM.
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  2. #2
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    cool story bro
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    StrengthCampSociety ICEMANLIDDELL's Avatar
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    Long read but definitely worth it man some great advice in there. the overtraining part is true, its about intaking enough to help your body recover and loosening your muscles after you finish, same thing happened with my squats man, had at them more than recommend and they went up! doing it with bench and dead lift currently.
    Overall great post man!
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  4. #4
    Registered User judowrestler1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crazed31 View Post
    cool story bro
    And that my friend, is why you are 5'11'' and 165 lbs.
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  5. #5
    Registered User IASONA's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info OP.

    Its so funny, I know people who want to get bigger, yet they only go to the gym once a week! And the sad thing is, they actually think they are big just because their bicep is poopping out or something. Hahaha! These people think having big biceps is everything haha.

    And i agree with you on the over training bit. Its just under recovery.
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  6. #6
    StrengthCampSociety ICEMANLIDDELL's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    And that my friend, is why you are 5'11'' and 165 lbs.
    strong this ^
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    And that my friend, is why you are 5'11'' and 165 lbs.
    u mad i'm actually on SS at the moment?
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  8. #8
    Registered User judowrestler1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crazed31 View Post
    u mad i'm actually on SS at the moment?
    Not at all, actually really happy.
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  9. #9
    Registered User iBeLifting1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    And that my friend, is why you are 5'11'' and 165 lbs.
    ^^This. LOL
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    Bulking till ´16 Bruno93's Avatar
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    I don't agree with the overtraining point, but besides that, everything else is spot on. Good thread.
    My log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133887131

    Reps for regular posters!

    Current lifts (end of 2013) / Goal for end of 2014:

    Back squat: 140 kg x1 / 180 kg
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    Bench press: 75 kg x5 / 120 kg
    Pullups: BW + 25 kg x5 (96 kg) / BW + 40 kg
    Dips: BW + 21.25 kg x5 (92.25 kg) / BW + 60 kg
    Seated BB press: 40 kg x6 / 80 kg
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  11. #11
    Registered User judowrestler1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bruno93 View Post
    I don't agree with the overtraining point, but besides that, everything else is spot on. Good thread.
    Thanks, I figured that would be the point that most people disagreed on. Everyone has their opinion on it and, both sides have about as much proof as the next. In reality it probably comes down to the individual knowing how quickly they recover and what they are capable of.
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    Go on youtube, search for "tom martin deadlift" second video

    yes, im not a teen.
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    Registered User judowrestler1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Esthetique View Post
    Go on youtube, search for "tom martin deadlift" second video

    yes, im not a teen.
    Your point? Martin isn't exactly small.
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    Aside from training for sports, i have always done 1 body part a week. I have semi decent strength (335/405/550) bench, squat. deadlift. It just comes down to how your body responds to different stress.

    Regardless, nice post OP
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    No I dont squat, because I dont train to impress gorillas. I train to impress women and preteen boys.

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    Good Job Dave Man.
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    Great thread, i wanna reinforce a few points you made. First of let me say i've never lifted like a BB always for strength and actually the past year my goal has been get as strong as possible with out mass gain, weird i know but i've added 80 pounds to my squat and lost 8 pounds so somethings working.


    I think you touched on stretching at the end of a workout, and this is something nearly every bodybuilder or really most lifters neglect. Not only this but a proper warmup is vital especially for leg days, i normally do 5-10 mins of medium intensity cardio to get the blood flowing then do a foam roll and dynamic/static stretching before i even begin my warmup sets for squats. And at the end i usually run, but always stretch for a solid 5 minutes if i neglect to stretch im sore for a few days if i do stretch i could hit the gym again and do legs tommorow. I think it's the most overlooked thing in especially leg day is proper warmup/cooldown/stretching, i don't see how people can come into gym cold and begin working sets on squats with no warmups.

    I also believe overtraining is a myth, that being said you have to know your own body one training once a week is never gonna be my philosphy.
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    Bulking till ´16 Bruno93's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    Thanks, I figured that would be the point that most people disagreed on. Everyone has their opinion on it and, both sides have about as much proof as the next. In reality it probably comes down to the individual knowing how quickly they recover and what they are capable of.
    That's what overtraining comes down to. As soon as you exceed your recovery abilities, it's bound to happen. Then again, it's something that 99% of the people who post on tbb will never have to deal with, because they're not strong enough to begin with. But overtraining is def possible given you're strong and doing more volume than you should and that your body can't recover from.
    My log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133887131

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    Back squat: 140 kg x1 / 180 kg
    Front squat: 100 kg x1 / 140 kg
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    I have a picture of my basically anorexic self back when I was lifting for size not strength.

    I can post it if people feel its necessary to prove the point.
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  19. #19
    bulk bulk bulk Vitek92's Avatar
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    Agreed, OP.
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    Originally Posted by Bruno93 View Post
    As soon as you exceed your recovery abilities, it's bound to happen. But overtraining is def possible given you're strong and doing more volume than you should and that your body can't recover from.
    With proper food intake, stretching, and sleep you should always be able to recover well enough. What most people call over-training is simply them not knowing their body well enough to know that either
    1)They aren't strong enough to do the weight they are attempting
    2)They still haven't recovered from the last workout and need more rest

    That being said, I haven't ever gone for high volume workouts, I stick to frequency and intensity. I think we are both agreeing though that unless recovery is taken into consideration, growth won't happen.
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    This should be a sticky.
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    Okay, I've seen way to many threads lately with people who still aren't even at 315/225/405(Squat/Bench/Deadlift) but are somewhat close wanting to jump onto a bodybuilding split. This is ridiculous for some reason they want to jump onto a BB split and say they just want size. Have you ever seen a guy with a 500 squat and 405 bench that looks small? What about a 405 Squat and 315 bench? I'm going to attempt to try to make this simple and pretty easy to understand.


    But, my back hurts when I squat or deadlift.
    In this case you have four options
    1)Fix your technique
    2)See 1
    3)If your technique is perfect(It isn't), man up.
    4)Be a wimp






    Cliffs-If you're too lazy to read it you are missing out.
    very good info man thanks! I'm glad you gave us some articles and sources for this information.
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    Originally Posted by Jeffbelittle View Post
    I have a picture of my basically anorexic self back when I was lifting for size not strength.

    I can post it if people feel its necessary to prove the point.
    found it! (avi)
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    I would rep over and over again OP...but I need to spread it first.

    Good write!
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    With proper food intake, stretching, and sleep you should always be able to recover well enough. What most people call over-training is simply them not knowing their body well enough to know that either
    1)They aren't strong enough to do the weight they are attempting
    2)They still haven't recovered from the last workout and need more rest

    That being said, I haven't ever gone for high volume workouts, I stick to frequency and intensity. I think we are both agreeing though that unless recovery is taken into consideration, growth won't happen.
    Youll burn out your CNS before you overtrain the muscle itself. Unless of course you do 5 days in a row of high volume high weight biceps only...I guess you could technically then. But nobody does that
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  26. #26
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    Great right up OP!
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    Originally Posted by OverTrapped View Post
    very good info man thanks! I'm glad you gave us some articles and sources for this information.
    Fixed
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  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by judowrestler1 View Post
    Fixed
    maybe add a 5th point where you say some ppl just have an injury too.. lol, i agree with the most things you say tho
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    Originally Posted by OverTrapped View Post
    maybe add a 5th point where you say some ppl just have an injury too.. lol, i agree with the most things you say tho
    And done.
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  30. #30
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    if you ask ANY bodybuilder who has gone far in competitions they will tell you they dont lift solely for strength, you make a few good points in your post ill admit but if you take two identical lifters with ~5 years experience, same diet but one lifts solely for mass anf the other trains solely for strength i think its pretty obv who will have better size gains
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