What's the real difference between 'Marriage' and 'civil unions'?

[T150]

Aside from the name.

[tk217]

Aside from the name.

I would say understanding ---

If I say I am married in any nation - people understand what I mean.

If I say I am civilly unionized -- they'll bert stare me.

Besides that you need to re-write all marriage laws on the book to include the terminology "civil union" otherwise it doesn't "count" under that law.

[sydneyalysse]

both = stupid

[Shoesfly]

Marriage - religious and legal institution.
Civil Union - legal institution.

If you could give the same legal benefits of a civil union as that of a marriage, you could allow the homosexuals to do that instead, without "defiling" marriage as a religious act.

Win win for everyone.

[Godfrd824]

These are some rights marriage affords you that civil unions don't.

Social Security benefits upon death, disability or retirement of spouse, as well as benefits for minor children.
Family and Medical Leave protections to care for a new child or a sick or injured family member
Workers' Compensation protections for the family of a worker injured on the job
Access to COBRA insurance benefits so the family doesn't lose health insurance when one spouse is laid off
ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act) protections such as the ability to leave a pension, other than Social Security, to your spouse
Exemptions from penalties on IRA and pension rollovers
Exemptions from estate taxes when a spouse dies
Exemptions from federal income taxes on spouse's health insurance
The right to visit a sick or injured loved one, have a say in life and death matters during hospitalization.

[Thinman]

These are some rights marriage affords you that civil unions don't.

Social Security benefits upon death, disability or retirement of spouse, as well as benefits for minor children.
Family and Medical Leave protections to care for a new child or a sick or injured family member
Workers' Compensation protections for the family of a worker injured on the job
Access to COBRA insurance benefits so the family doesn't lose health insurance when one spouse is laid off
ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act) protections such as the ability to leave a pension, other than Social Security, to your spouse
Exemptions from penalties on IRA and pension rollovers
Exemptions from estate taxes when a spouse dies
Exemptions from federal income taxes on spouse's health insurance
The right to visit a sick or injured loved one, have a say in life and death matters during hospitalization.

Regardless if it is called marriage or civil unions, these are the things gays should be fighting for.

[amtharin]

These are some rights marriage affords you that civil unions don't.

Social Security benefits upon death, disability or retirement of spouse, as well as benefits for minor children.
Family and Medical Leave protections to care for a new child or a sick or injured family member
Workers' Compensation protections for the family of a worker injured on the job
Access to COBRA insurance benefits so the family doesn't lose health insurance when one spouse is laid off
ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act) protections such as the ability to leave a pension, other than Social Security, to your spouse
Exemptions from penalties on IRA and pension rollovers
Exemptions from estate taxes when a spouse dies
Exemptions from federal income taxes on spouse's health insurance
The right to visit a sick or injured loved one, have a say in life and death matters during hospitalization.

"Civil unions" is a wide encompassing term that is used in many different states and countries with different meanings in each.

[Godfrd824]

"Civil unions" is a wide encompassing term that is used in many different states and countries with different meanings in each.

In the US they do not purport the same rights as marriage, in any state.

[semitope]

Regardless if it is called marriage or civil unions, these are the things gays should be fighting for.

been saying this for the past few days. Its why I don't take the gay marriage thing seriously at all. Its not about rights, its a secular attack on religious morality with "gay marriage" being the angle.

[tk217]

been saying this for the past few days. Its why I don't take the gay marriage thing seriously at all. Its not about rights, its a secular attack on religious morality with "gay marriage" being the angle.

Because marriage was a creation of religion right? Marriage doesn't pre-date religion or anything -- right? Marriage is a creation by Christianity huh?

[semitope]

Because marriage was a creation of religion right? Marriage doesn't pre-date religion or anything -- right? Marriage is a creation by Christianity huh?

no. Doesn't change what it is widely recognized as by a majority of people in western society today.

[Godfrd824]

no. Doesn't change what it is widely recognized as by a majority of people in western society today.

So since the majority of people in the west had slaves, it was ok, and it shouldn't have been changed?

[Tekkendo]

been saying this for the past few days. Its why I don't take the gay marriage thing seriously at all. Its not about rights, its a secular attack on religious morality with "gay marriage" being the angle.

Saying cock+cock or pussy+pussy is the same as cock + pussy, is along the same line of fat chicks demanding everyone to think that fat is hot.

[AboveAverage]

Give them the same rights and call it something else. As long as the definition of marriage doesn't change I'm happy with that. I don't want this to be the beginning of modifying the english language to be politically correct because of rustled Jimmies.

[flairon]

These are some rights marriage affords you that civil unions don't.

Social Security benefits upon death, disability or retirement of spouse, as well as benefits for minor children.
Family and Medical Leave protections to care for a new child or a sick or injured family member
Workers' Compensation protections for the family of a worker injured on the job
Access to COBRA insurance benefits so the family doesn't lose health insurance when one spouse is laid off
ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act) protections such as the ability to leave a pension, other than Social Security, to your spouse
Exemptions from penalties on IRA and pension rollovers
Exemptions from estate taxes when a spouse dies
Exemptions from federal income taxes on spouse's health insurance
The right to visit a sick or injured loved one, have a say in life and death matters during hospitalization.

Regardless if it is called marriage or civil unions, these are the things gays should be fighting for.

this and this.

If they gave civil unions the same rights and privileges of marriage, but just let the religious keep the term 'marriage', everybody is happy.

[JAGERBOY]

Marriage - religious and legal institution.
Civil Union - legal institution.

If you could give the same legal benefits of a civil union as that of a marriage, you could allow the homosexuals to do that instead, without "defiling" marriage as a religious act.

Win win for everyone.

In the eyes of the law marriage should have nothing to do with religion. What one chooses to label it as privately or at their church is up to them. Otherwise two atheists getting married should not be recognized as a marriage.

[flairon]

In the eyes of the law marriage should have nothing to do with religion. What one chooses to label it as privately or at their church is up to them. Otherwise two atheists getting married should not be recognized as a marriage.

Hmm...this is an interesting point.



God says a man laying down with a man is a no-no, but anyone can be saved and forgiven, and granted access to his kingdom.

Jesus doesn't say anything bad about homosexuality and taught honoring thy mother and father, so he's probably going the same way as his father. So apparently neither God or Jesus would have a problem with homosexual marriage. I would imagine it is the same for most every other religion because they all generally follow each other most of the time.
So why is religion against this again?
Now one could say 'oh, but they don't stop being gay, so they are never forgiven'...and that's true. But I'm guessing most every other sinner on the planet is getting married isn't required to repent all sins before saying 'I do' and they get all the rights/benefits of the more pious of the population.


And even if religion is against it, the Constitution makes a point adamantly about the separation of church and state, so who gives a sh*t what the church says anyway.

So it would sound to me as though the church should have no problem with gay marriage to begin with, and the government's role in this should end with basically recording the marriage for government legal purposes.

The problem isn't the church, the problem is the government. The enemy is not 'god', the enemy is legislators.

[AboveAverage]

I have no problem with any of it, except for the rewriting the dictionary part. Call it gay marriage if you want, just not marriage. Marriage is clearly defined as the union of a man and woman. That's the only minor thing that irks me.

[semitope]

So since the majority of people in the west had slaves, it was ok, and it shouldn't have been changed?

Nice comparison

not.

The actual word might actually be tied to religion. The equivalent in other societies back then may really be considered a civil union. Haven't looked into it though. I suspect people think marriage is not a religious concept because the idea of being married pre-dates the word.

The word might very well be christian. Again, not sure.

[JAGERBOY]

I have no problem with any of it, except for the rewriting the dictionary part. Call it gay marriage if you want, just not marriage. Marriage is clearly defined as the union of a man and woman. That's the only minor thing that irks me.

Then redefine it. We redefine and amend things all the time. Ever heard of the constitution? Do a quick Google search on Pluto as well.

[NeoKantian]

It's usually religitards that want a marriage and civil union dichotomy.

[Tekkendo]

this and this.

If they gave civil unions the same rights and privileges of marriage, but just let the religious keep the term 'marriage', everybody is happy.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's what I have been saying.

but noo.. some gays and their supporters just want to " IN YOUR FACE.."

[Tekkendo]

The problem isn't the church, the problem is the government. The enemy is not 'god', the enemy is legislators.

right again.

[b.spencer]

this and this.

If they gave civil unions the same rights and privileges of marriage, but just let the religious keep the term 'marriage', everybody is happy.

Not from what I have seen, especially on the religious right groups like NOM. They claim any bundle of rights associated with marriage is marriage. They claim civil unions are "marriage by another name"and must be banned too. They even fight hospital partnership registries for visitation. And since even non-equal civil unions were killed by religious conservative republicans in my state this year, despite having the votes to pass and the approval of 70 % in opinion polls . . . No, not every would be happy. Not by a long shot.

[JAGERBOY]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's what I have been saying.

but noo.. some gays and their supporters just want to " IN YOUR FACE.."

There's no reason to make the distinction since our government should not have anything to do with religion. Having two types of marriage is an unnecessary complication. Just have it encompass both or neither.

[amtharin]

In the US they do not purport the same rights as marriage, in any state.

Thanks captain obvious, but my post really had nothing to do with comparing a civil union to a marriage. It was pointing out that there is no standard definition.

[semitope]

There's no reason to make the distinction since our government should not have anything to do with religion. Having two types of marriage is an unnecessary complication. Just have it encompass both or neither.

which would mean not forcing the redefining of religious concepts, right?

The government is not the one responsible here. This is voted on by citizens and gays would have less of a hard time if this was actually about their rights.

[brighamw]

So since the majority of people in the west had slaves, it was ok, and it shouldn't have been changed?

[Tekkendo]

There's no reason to make the distinction since our government should not have anything to do with religion. Having two types of marriage is an unnecessary complication. Just have it encompass both or neither.

There is only ONE type of marriage, that is between a man and a woman. Anything else is not a marriage.

Calling a tail a leg doesn't mean the cow can now walk on 5 legs.

A same sex couple just cannot have sex and produce offsprings naturally. Calling it a marriage doesn't change that.

[IAmBatman]

which would mean not forcing the redefining of religion concepts, right?

The government is not the one responsible here. This is voted on by citizens and gays would have less of a hard time if this was actually about their rights.

Marriage is a religious concept?