**OFFICIAL** Trading and Investing Thread- Part -IV-

[adambomb]

Theres a lot of knowledge being shared in here and I appreciate it fellas!

[mcichocki]

Pigs get slaughtered. Look at the weekly chart, AAPL has been in serious need of a breather.

I thought I was the only black sheep in here. Of course timing a correction is risky but it eventually is likely to happen.

[Sldge]

If I made an average of $200 a day on 100K that's 50% a year. You can't day trade / scalp the same way to do longer term trades.

But why would you day trade AAPL stock when you could day trade AAPL options?

This a.m. you could have bought the AAPL 580 call weekly options (day trading so why buy anything longer) about $7.65 or $756 per contract. You could have bought 65 options (and risked 50% less then what you did) and sold them for about $8.15 in the exact same amount of time. That would put you up about $3250 in the same period of time, with half the risk. Do that very same thing every day and you'd be up a zillion % for the year.

I understand why you would be in for the short trading period if you are day trading but then you would never let you winners run because that isnt day trading. Thats long term trading / investing.

[potentialhazzer]

Im not trying to nitpick Im just trying to understand the trade. If the goal is let the winners run, then when winning shouldnt it be running? Instead it seems like he did exactly the opposite of what he said he should do. My winner is winning a very very small amount especially compared to my risk, so Ill sell it. It would be different if AAPL were up $50 or $75 today. Id want to take a little off the table too at that point.

Ok then Im probably not missing something. Im looking at his trade and thinking Im totally lost.

Agreed. If I had the capital to tie up into AAPL i'd be loading my boat everytime it bounced the 580 support.

[badbart]

Im not trying to nitpick Im just trying to understand the trade. If the goal is let the winners run, then when winning shouldnt it be running? Instead it seems like he did exactly the opposite of what he said he should do. My winner is winning a very very small amount especially compared to my risk, so Ill sell it. It would be different if AAPL were up $50 or $75 today. Id want to take a little off the table too at that point.

Ok then Im probably not missing something. Im looking at his trade and thinking Im totally lost.

Sometime's i'll open a position in the morning and if it shows strength I'll hold half for the longer term and sell half before the close or the entire position if its weak. AAPL is looking weak so I decided to keep the $400 I made and try CMG which is looking better but hitting intraday resistance as I type this. Sometimes the half I hold turns into longer trades days, weeks months.

[badbart]

Agreed. If I had the capital to tie up into AAPL i'd be loading my boat everytime it bounced the 580 support.

100k is a too much for me too hold over night 50k is good.

[AFDestruction]

I thought I was the only black sheep in here. Of course timing a correction is risky but it eventually is likely to happen.

Exactly, people buying in now are what blows me away. Wait for a solid entry point, peoples appetite for risk with these whipsaws is nuts.

[Mr.Hat]

Right....

Can anyone tell me the best program / website to register on to buy and sell shares?

[mcichocki]

But why would you day trade AAPL stock when you could day trade AAPL options?

This a.m. you could have bought the AAPL 580 call weekly options (day trading so why buy anything longer) about $7.65 or $756 per contract. You could have bought 65 options (and risked 50% less then what you did) and sold them for about $8.15 in the exact same amount of time. That would put you up about $3250 in the same period of time, with half the risk. Do that very same thing every day and you'd be up a zillion % for the year.

I understand why you would be in for the short trading period if you are day trading but then you would never let you winners run because that isnt day trading. Thats long term trading / investing.

Not to mention as an option buyer you benefit from leveraged fixed risk.

[potentialhazzer]

Right....

Can anyone tell me the best program / website to register on to buy and sell shares?

You mean a discount brokerage? It depends on your country a lot of the time... I see you're in the UK so i'm not sure. Do your due diligence and read up on the reviews and reports about DBs available to UK customers. Personally I use Interactive Brokers and it's quite popular amongst serious traders; good platforms and I have never encountered a problem.

[Tekkendo]

.....

I must be missing something. You risked $116,210 to make $390?

He is not risking 116210. AAPL is never at risk of going to 0 during his holding period.

[pachovia]

But why would you day trade AAPL stock when you could day trade AAPL options?

This a.m. you could have bought the AAPL 580 call weekly options (day trading so why buy anything longer) about $7.65 or $756 per contract. You could have bought 65 options (and risked 50% less then what you did) and sold them for about $8.15 in the exact same amount of time. That would put you up about $3250 in the same period of time, with half the risk. Do that very same thing every day and you'd be up a zillion % for the year.

I understand why you would be in for the short trading period if you are day trading but then you would never let you winners run because that isnt day trading. Thats long term trading / investing.

I didn't explain myself very well, I enter the trade as a 1/2 day trade 1/2 longer term. If the stock looks strong; example rising on strong volume I'll sell 1/2 at close and keep 1/2 for a long term trade. I posted under Badbart but I'm at work and I forget my password.

[Tekkendo]

Right....

Can anyone tell me the best program / website to register on to buy and sell shares?

A real brokerage? www.Selftrade.co.uk. The UK stamp duty can kill you.

[adambomb]

Anybody own or plan to own Abbot Labs?

[mcichocki]

He is not risking 116210. AAPL is never at risk of going to 0 during his holding period.

It's highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely but it's not 100% impossible. Some use their target stop loss as their full "risk" but I assume we've all seen gaps that produce huge slippage and/or paralysis leading to a bigger than anticipated loss, no?
Now that I see it was Pachovia though it changes things...he's earned respect and I know he knows what he's doing.

[Tekkendo]

It's highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely but it's not 100% impossible. Some use their target stop loss as their full "risk" but I assume we've all seen gaps that produce huge slippage and/or paralysis leading to a bigger than anticipated loss, no?
Now that I see it was Pachovia though it changes things...he's earned respect and I know he knows what he's doing.

If AAPL goes to zero in a day, we got bigger **** to worry about..

[mcichocki]

If AAPL goes to zero in a day, we got bigger **** to worry about..

Indeed, it would involve the USD to $0 given how much cash Apple is sitting on. Nothing is impossible. haha

[Barn01]

Pigs get slaughtered. Look at the weekly chart, AAPL has been in serious need of a breather.

AAPL has been getting it's breather for the last couple weeks. The data from Samsung is keeping AAPL modest. It was getting silly there for a month or so.

Sometime's i'll open a position in the morning and if it shows strength I'll hold half for the longer term and sell half before the close or the entire position if its weak. AAPL is looking weak so I decided to keep the $400 I made and try CMG which is looking better but hitting intraday resistance as I type this. Sometimes the half I hold turns into longer trades days, weeks months.

Not sure I understand the reason for only holding half if all you pull is a few Hundy on a 6 figure trade? If you have reason to believe it's going to keep going up (enough that you hold half a position) then why would you put money into something else? Also if you have half your money tied up in one stock then how do you play the next one?

Trades today
Sell $7.16 ESIC +63.5% held 51d (got bought out by Open Text)

[badbart]

AAPL has been getting it's breather for the last couple weeks. The data from Samsung is keeping AAPL modest. It was getting silly there for a month or so.



Not sure I understand the reason for only holding half if all you pull is a few Hundy on a 6 figure trade? If you have reason to believe it's going to keep going up (enough that you hold half a position) then why would you put money into something else? Also if you have half your money tied up in one stock then how do you play the next one?

Trades today
Sell $7.16 ESIC +63.5% held 51d (got bought out by Open Text)

I didn't have 1/2 my cash tied up in AAPL I had twice the percentage I would allocate to one position on a longer term trade. If aapl reminded strong, price action and volume I would exit half the position at close leaving me with my full percentage for of a position for the longer term trade. Since price and volume action was weak today I decided to close the entire position. I need price and volume to confirm each other for my longer term plays, if volume isn't high with a decent price increase I exit and wait to try again. A good example is DHI I bought on the 27th rising price and volume, today it had huge price and volume increase confirming my position.

Plus $400 is real money, I'll take it. Sometimes I forget I trade to make money and get too much into the mental masturbation of charts, indicators support and resistance and when I come to my senses I'll cash out and enjoy my profits.

[Tekkendo]

i know a guy with a million $$ yacht, paid for with scalping a few $$ per trade days in days out. He trades from his freaking yacht... His trades look like chicken feed. But it adds up....

Now if you would excuse me, my shift at McDonald starts very soon...

[badbart]

i know a guy with a million $$ yacht, paid for with scalping a few $$ per trade days in days out. He trades from his freaking yacht... His trades look like chicken feed. But it adds up....

I would love to be able to scalp on a daily basis but I always seem to blow all my profits after a week or so. I can't find enough opportunities to trade my system like I did today on a daily basis.

[AFDestruction]

AAPL has been getting it's breather for the last couple weeks. The data from Samsung is keeping AAPL modest. It was getting silly there for a month or so.

Its starting to cool off, but for long term holds it has quite a bit more to go before any kind of hint of margin of safety to where you could call it an investment and not just gambling.

[adambomb]

Just curious as to if anyone here has an IRA - If so, what type and list your holdings

Just started my Roth

Intel
Mcdonalds
Looking to add a 3rd....

[RandomWalk]

I would love to be able to scalp on a daily basis but I always seem to blow all my profits after a week or so. I can't find enough opportunities to trade my system like I did today on a daily basis.

If it's a systematic strategy, then you should be able to trade it algorithmically.

[NumberOneStunna]

Bam green mountain strangle!!! 50 contracts weekly 55 calls, 80 contracts weekly 42 puts. I was down quite a bit due to horrible initiation of position. Up huge now. Will buy a crap load of calls with all profits and try to double up to 200 grand woooooo

[NumberOneStunna]

Not to mention as an option buyer you benefit from leveraged fixed risk.

Ya but if you hold that large of a position without a hedge you're asking for trouble. You could lose half your position in a matter of minutes, heck even in a matter of seconds. Not wise unless there is momentum.

[koh19]

Hey guys,

so I've closely been following the french elections, watched the debate tonight hollande vs. sarkozy and it's pretty much decided, hollande will be the next president of France. His program is awful, more taxes, more spending, more public sector workers, 75% tax rate on income above 1 million euros, wants to renegotiate the European treaty and more. Personally I think that if he gets elected, France and possibly the Euro Zone is going down the shythole or at least will be in great difficulty. France is almost a sure bet IMO, Euro zone less though, will have to see what happens during the first few meetings of the eurozone, G8, etc...

What kind of financial instrument can I use to make a profit of this situation (that France will soon be in great difficulty and could possibly become the next country that has a debt crisis)?

I have a small account, nothing serious but I believe I can make some money out of this situation.

I heard a few weeks ago that Eurex, after some institutions had demanded it, created a special derivative that would go up in value if France's situation becomes worse.

Do you guys agree?
Do you know of any special instruments, derivatives, stocks,... that we could benefit from if France goes down?
Do you have any plans of your own?


Cheers brahs

[gouscfootball]

Bam green mountain strangle!!! 50 contracts weekly 55 calls, 80 contracts weekly 42 puts. I was down quite a bit due to horrible initiation of position. Up huge now. Will buy a crap load of calls with all profits and try to double up to 200 grand woooooo

Nice man. How much are you up $ wise YTD?

[badbart]

If it's a systematic strategy, then you should be able to trade it algorithmically.

My system is based on daily charts using Metastock end of day its and I don't have a real time data subscription for Metastock. The system is based of volatility adjusted oversold indicators and momentum indicators, I also use volume to confirm my buys. The system suppose to work on intraday data but I've never tried it. I'm hesitant to spend $250 a month and fail again.


Example

[Valjean]

Do a swap,

Buy fixed LIBOR, receive floating something relative to french yields. If french goes down, rates go up, you profit...

Or you could screw around with a ted spread related thing, but that's gonna be more of something to profit from all of Europe's demise.