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  1. #1
    deapee deapee's Avatar
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    Eating clean, not losing weight...

    First, a little background -- I've pretty much spent my younger life around a gym...always reading articles, etc. 2 years ago we had our son and we just never made the time to go to the gym anymore. Anyway, right now I'm 5'10", 191 pounds, I'd estimate about 20% BF (ie. I look like crap with a shirt off, but great with a shirt on).

    Well, a month ago, 11/14/2011 I started back at the gym, 3 days a week with a full body routine and occasionally hitting it 1-2 extra times a week for a late night cardio session and extra calf/ab work.

    I've calculated my daily needs to be 2950 calories to maintain (even if I choose completely sedentary, my needs were still like 2700)...so I've been eating a pretty clean 2500 calories a day for the past month. I've completely cut out soda (used to drink 3-4 a day), mostly all refined sugars (used to eat at least a pack of skittles a day, now the only refined sugars I get would be in a nutra grain bar or an occasional red bull), and been eating really good, mainly chicken, eggs, whey, oats, fruits, veggies, milk and calculating my calories every single day to be between 2400 and 2600...with about 160-190 grams of protein a day.

    I have not lost a single pound, and in reality, I've probably gained 2 pounds.

    As far as weights go, I've really been hammering them hard...I mean I still get sore when I leave...doing mainly compound lifts like deads, rack pulls, pushups, pull-downs, heavy t-bar or BB standing rows, close-grip bench, skull crushers, standing bb curls, the real meat and potatoes stuff. I've always been really in tune with my body when it comes to working out. I've cut from 20% BF to 10% in 3 months before about 5 years ago the same exact way.

    --

    1) Is it *possible* that I have some type of muscle memory and I'm losing fat and gaining muscle?

    2) Should I cut my calories down to 2100? -- I REALLY feel like I'm on a deficit, and have all month. My original plan was to stay in a deficit for 90 days then continue to eat at about 100-200 calories above maintenance.

    3) Should I give it another month at 2500 and go from there -- worst case if I'm not on a deficit, I am definitely building muscle. In this case, aim more for a recomposition over a longer period of time, say 6 months to a year?

    4) Is it my age? I've read that once you hit 30, especially if you have a kid, your testosterone gets way jacked. My sex drive is not any different than when I was 18...my hair is just as full as ever..."everything" works just like always...I still FEEL the same as I did when i was 18, minus, of course, a few aches and pains in a knee or whatever every now and then, etc.

    THANKS
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  2. #2
    Registered User ilovegreg05's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deapee View Post
    First, a little background -- I've pretty much spent my younger life around a gym...always reading articles, etc. 2 years ago we had our son and we just never made the time to go to the gym anymore. Anyway, right now I'm 5'10", 191 pounds, I'd estimate about 20% BF (ie. I look like crap with a shirt off, but great with a shirt on).

    Well, a month ago, 11/14/2011 I started back at the gym, 3 days a week with a full body routine and occasionally hitting it 1-2 extra times a week for a late night cardio session and extra calf/ab work.

    I've calculated my daily needs to be 2950 calories to maintain (even if I choose completely sedentary, my needs were still like 2700)...so I've been eating a pretty clean 2500 calories a day for the past month. I've completely cut out soda (used to drink 3-4 a day), mostly all refined sugars (used to eat at least a pack of skittles a day, now the only refined sugars I get would be in a nutra grain bar or an occasional red bull), and been eating really good, mainly chicken, eggs, whey, oats, fruits, veggies, milk and calculating my calories every single day to be between 2400 and 2600...with about 160-190 grams of protein a day.

    I have not lost a single pound, and in reality, I've probably gained 2 pounds.

    As far as weights go, I've really been hammering them hard...I mean I still get sore when I leave...doing mainly compound lifts like deads, rack pulls, pushups, pull-downs, heavy t-bar or BB standing rows, close-grip bench, skull crushers, standing bb curls, the real meat and potatoes stuff. I've always been really in tune with my body when it comes to working out. I've cut from 20% BF to 10% in 3 months before about 5 years ago the same exact way.

    --

    1) Is it *possible* that I have some type of muscle memory and I'm losing fat and gaining muscle?

    2) Should I cut my calories down to 2100? -- I REALLY feel like I'm on a deficit, and have all month. My original plan was to stay in a deficit for 90 days then continue to eat at about 100-200 calories above maintenance.

    3) Should I give it another month at 2500 and go from there -- worst case if I'm not on a deficit, I am definitely building muscle. In this case, aim more for a recomposition over a longer period of time, say 6 months to a year?

    4) Is it my age? I've read that once you hit 30, especially if you have a kid, your testosterone gets way jacked. My sex drive is not any different than when I was 18...my hair is just as full as ever..."everything" works just like always...I still FEEL the same as I did when i was 18, minus, of course, a few aches and pains in a knee or whatever every now and then, etc.

    THANKS
    Glad to see you are hitting it again! There is a guideline I sort of use with my goals and maybe this will help you out:

    If weight stays the same for 1 week- Its chance
    If weight stays the same for 2 weeks- Its a coincidence
    If weight stays the same for 3 weeks- its a trend time to change something up

    I'm not a very patient person but this helps. Also, get some body fat test done this will help out with knowing if your building any muscle or not.
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  3. #3
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    I was cutting at 1800 to 2000 at your weight.
    I think you are eating too much.

    How much protein & fats?
    April '09 to Dec 15th 2011: 260 to 158.8 - 101 lb loss
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  4. #4
    Registered User canadiancoops's Avatar
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    Biggest question is did you measure your waist at the start? Has it gone down? If so then you are losing fat and gaining muscle, which shouldnt be a surprise if you used to hit the weights, it'll come back quick.

    If not then you're at too many calories. Reduce to say 2200 and see how that goes for a few weeks.

    I cut at 2000 a day, hit gym 6 times a week and lose approix 1-1.5 lbs a week but then I have an office job
    The body doesn't struggle to lose weight...the mind does - keep measurements, keep your sanity.

    I'm an Englishman living in Canada...oh how I miss a decent curry!

    Former skinny fat member @ 158lbs and 18% body fat - now 205lbs and 15%. It's been a long journey but a rewarding one.
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  5. #5
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    agree with other posters, try dropping another 200 cals or so and give it 3 to 4 weeks
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  6. #6
    deapee deapee's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by canadiancoops View Post
    Biggest question is did you measure your waist at the start? Has it gone down?
    That's a good point...I did not measure my waist but my pants that I couldn't button, I can now button almost comfortably. So my waist is getting smaller and I know for a fact my arms are getting bigger, but that's mostly pump I'd say.

    I'm really considering just cutting an extra 100 calories from my last meal of the day and continuing on. I'd personally rather do that and set up my punching bag and jump rope / run stairs two extra nights a week, if necessary, than cut all the way down to 2k.
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  7. #7
    deapee deapee's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NitrogenWidget View Post
    I was cutting at 1800 to 2000 at your weight.
    I think you are eating too much.

    How much protein & fats?
    Protein is 150-180g per day. Fat, is just in moderation. I avoid saturated fat, and just eat healthy. I never really had to consider measuring the fat in every meal in the past...until I hit about 10% body fat, then I would worry about it. If I had to guess, I'd probably say 40:30:30 or 40:35:25.

    agree with other posters, try dropping another 200 cals or so and give it 3 to 4 weeks
    Thanks.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Mightymuff's Avatar
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    Not sure how at 5ft10 and 192lbs you managed to get 2700 caloires at sedentary, 2300 would be more accurate. It seems as though you have overestimated how many calories you burn.
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  9. #9
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    Your body is a biological machine. It runs on energy(calories), it stores energy in fat cells. If you don't get enough external energy your body uses internal sources-fat.
    A deficit is below your caloric needs from external sources-(food) so your body uses internal sources-(fat).

    Lower calories to lose weight. Its that simple.

    The only hard part is figuring out how many calories you need. Most of the equations to figure it out seem kinda inaccurate or lots of wiggle room. So Just figure something out and wait a month and see if it works.

    1) If you haven't gone to the gym in 2 years, you're probably gaining a bit of muscle. I'm 5'11 and 200 pounds, I only eat right around 2k gaining muscle and losing fat right now, slowly though not in a hurry, around 21% bf.

    2) yes if you aren't losing weight you aren't in a deficit

    3) You can wait and see. Or not, it could be small gains or loses. Recomp is slower a lot slower than bulking or cutting. If you aren't really documenting your weight your data and conclusions are immediate red flags that shouldn't be trusted. Our memories are horrible over long periods write **** down.
    Faster results cut calories by a bigger amount, slower keep around or a bit under maintenance.

    4) I don't think so. I always thought it was 40's when that's suppose to happen, but that just drains you of life along with the need to drain your balls all day. I think it only lowers your caloric needs by a a hundred or two.
    I might be wrong though.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by deapee View Post
    ... but that's mostly pump I'd say.
    Keep in mind that "pump" is mostly water weight, and water is heavy. Even if you're not actually gaining muscle, the swelling and extra water retention in the muscles could be part of your weight gain.

    Since you didn't take measurements before, I'd take them now, cut an extra 100 calories (to 2400) for 3 weeks and take measurements again. That should give you a better picture of what's going on.
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  11. #11
    deapee deapee's Avatar
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    @corb158 Thanks. Good points.

    @Kelvandros Very good point. I did switch from (I hate to admit it) nearly 100% soda...to 90% water.
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  12. #12
    Registered User fau5t's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deapee View Post
    First, a little background -- I've pretty much spent my younger life around a gym...always reading articles, etc. 2 years ago we had our son and we just never made the time to go to the gym anymore. Anyway, right now I'm 5'10", 191 pounds, I'd estimate about 20% BF (ie. I look like crap with a shirt off, but great with a shirt on).

    Well, a month ago, 11/14/2011 I started back at the gym, 3 days a week with a full body routine and occasionally hitting it 1-2 extra times a week for a late night cardio session and extra calf/ab work.

    I've calculated my daily needs to be 2950 calories to maintain (even if I choose completely sedentary, my needs were still like 2700)...so I've been eating a pretty clean 2500 calories a day for the past month. I've completely cut out soda (used to drink 3-4 a day), mostly all refined sugars (used to eat at least a pack of skittles a day, now the only refined sugars I get would be in a nutra grain bar or an occasional red bull), and been eating really good, mainly chicken, eggs, whey, oats, fruits, veggies, milk and calculating my calories every single day to be between 2400 and 2600...with about 160-190 grams of protein a day.

    I have not lost a single pound, and in reality, I've probably gained 2 pounds.

    As far as weights go, I've really been hammering them hard...I mean I still get sore when I leave...doing mainly compound lifts like deads, rack pulls, pushups, pull-downs, heavy t-bar or BB standing rows, close-grip bench, skull crushers, standing bb curls, the real meat and potatoes stuff. I've always been really in tune with my body when it comes to working out. I've cut from 20% BF to 10% in 3 months before about 5 years ago the same exact way.

    --

    1) Is it *possible* that I have some type of muscle memory and I'm losing fat and gaining muscle?

    2) Should I cut my calories down to 2100? -- I REALLY feel like I'm on a deficit, and have all month. My original plan was to stay in a deficit for 90 days then continue to eat at about 100-200 calories above maintenance.

    3) Should I give it another month at 2500 and go from there -- worst case if I'm not on a deficit, I am definitely building muscle. In this case, aim more for a recomposition over a longer period of time, say 6 months to a year?

    4) Is it my age? I've read that once you hit 30, especially if you have a kid, your testosterone gets way jacked. My sex drive is not any different than when I was 18...my hair is just as full as ever..."everything" works just like always...I still FEEL the same as I did when i was 18, minus, of course, a few aches and pains in a knee or whatever every now and then, etc.

    THANKS
    My maintenance is 2900 and I weigh a solid 30lbs more than you do and play hockey 3-5 days a week. What are you using to calculate your calorie needs?
    Last edited by fau5t; 12-09-2011 at 08:47 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by fau5t View Post
    My maintenance is 2900 and I weigh a solid 30lbs more than you do and play hockey 3-5 days a week. What are you using to calculate your calorie needs?
    Yep, as I said earlier his calcs are way off, he's eating at maintenance.
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  14. #14
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    I saw a commercial for a sixty day fitness program called Insanity- It might be just what you're looking for. I then tried it and it really helped. It also has nutrition tips!!!
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    only read thread title and all i have to say is you're simply eating too many calories if you've been eating a certain amount and haven't dropped any weight within a few weeks. cut them another few hundred or so and go from there.

    and 6Zeros, wtf are you an Insanity Sales Rep or something? nothing against the program but i'll take a lifting split > insanity/p90x any day.
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  16. #16
    deapee deapee's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fau5t View Post
    My maintenance is 2900 and I weigh a solid 30lbs more than you do and play hockey 3-5 days a week. What are you using to calculate your calorie needs?
    Yep, as I said earlier his calcs are way off, he's eating at maintenance.
    To calculate BMR, I use the most universally-accepted method which is BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

    This gives me a BMR of 1935

    Then I was using the Harris-Benedict formula


    To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

    If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
    If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
    If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
    If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
    If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9


    1935 * 1.55 is 2999 calories a day.

    Even if I were at light exercise 1 day a week it's saying to multiply by 1.375 which gives me a 2660 requirement to eat each day...in which case I should STILL be losing weight at 2500 especially with working out 3 days very hard each week and being active during the day.

    --

    Let me know what you think.
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    Originally Posted by deapee View Post
    To calculate BMR, I use the most universally-accepted method which is BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

    This gives me a BMR of 1935

    Then I was using the Harris-Benedict formula


    To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

    If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
    If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
    If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
    If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
    If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9


    1935 * 1.55 is 2999 calories a day.

    Even if I were at light exercise 1 day a week it's saying to multiply by 1.375 which gives me a 2660 requirement to eat each day...in which case I should STILL be losing weight at 2500 especially with working out 3 days very hard each week and being active during the day.

    --

    Let me know what you think.
    If you took the BMR the formula gave you then factored in the actual exercise you were doing using resources like livestrong I think you might get a better picture.

    From Wikipedia: "The equation does not take into account calories burned by existing large amounts of muscle mass, nor does it account for the additional calories provided by excess body fat—so the equation is more effective for individuals at an ideal body weight or close to it."

    I take this to mean that the equation is more relevant to the type of person that was kicking around in 1919 when the equation was developed. Personally I dont think it is entirely accurate and perhaps it is a bit misleading.

    You could try calculating your calories burned on a daily basis and aim for a daily calorie deficit, rather than multiplying your BMR based off a subjective factor. Ie. "moderate" activity.
    Last edited by fau5t; 12-09-2011 at 10:25 AM.
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