Craze - is it even safe?

[kerplunk]

For anyone not aware, Dendrobex and Citramine have GRAS status. This meaning that they are safer than 95% of supplements you most likely currently use. These ingredients were all sold prior to 1994, meaning they are pre-DHSEA era.

Let's just take a step back and look at how many ingredients user's on this site take that aren't necessarily safe.

[DASBUNKER]

Hipster Craze

Using vintage ingredients before they were cool

[boognish666]

I'm 36 years old and I've been around the supplement game for a long time. I've taken many preworkouts and fat burners over the years and while some are better than others none are ever anything amazing. There are very few game changers in this category and when they are it's because a new ingredient is introduced. Before I go any further let me start by saying I haven't tried Craze because I've seen the hype of too many products come and go. I'm hoping if the product is everything they say it is we will soon see free samples to show the market that it's the real deal. Everything seems to be the latest, greatest when it first comes out. I have no doubt DS created a solid product and I have never been disappointed with anything of their's I've tried. That being said, let's look at the game changers. Years back there was Geranamine. PA gave us that and at the time every review was positive and people were ranting and raving about how great it was. Fast forward to today and there seem to be more negative reviews than positive. I respond well to 1,3 and enjoy the product but many do not seem to and there's constant talk of it being pulled off the market any day. Another product that stood above the rest was SX. I am confident that a reputable company like DS would not pull shady stuff like that but it's a great example of a product everybody loved at first and look where it is now. I couldn't hope more that DS has really stumbled upon something great and if anybody would it would be them but the fact of the matter is there has to be an ingredient in there that is the game changer and making this stand above the rest if all of the reviews are true and correct and more than new product hype. What is that ingredient? What is it's history? What tests on safety have been done on it? Why has nobody in this competitive market come across this before? As responsible consumers (purchasing and ingesting) these are questions we should be asking ourselves.

[yourname2221]

Remember, Ay El Are Eye and AX were both reputable companies at one point.

This is also DS's opportunity to shine as a supplement company and admit that Craze may not be for everyone instead of pimping it to every newb asking for an "intense" preworkout like almost every other company rep on these boards

they were never on DS level. DS has been putting out solid **** since those other companies were around and years later is still doing it. The formulator is here, accessible, and brilliant unlike ****'s leaders dumbass; or TimDULL. All the reps are extremely knowledgeable with anything you throw at them as well.

Activate and triazole are staples in my hormonal arsenal and in activate's case has been for years and triazole is the go to AI on the market. They dont put out bad products so when DS talks i listen and they hit the nail on the head with this one.

[DaneNZL]

Hipster Craze

Using vintage ingredients before they were cool

I lolled...hard

[kerplunk]

I'm 36 years old and I've been around the supplement game for a long time. I've taken many preworkouts and fat burners over the years and while some are better than others none are ever anything amazing. There are very few game changers in this category and when they are it's because a new ingredient is introduced. Before I go any further let me start by saying I haven't tried Craze because I've seen the hype of too many products come and go. I'm hoping if the product is everything they say it is we will soon see free samples to show the market that it's the real deal. Everything seems to be the latest, greatest when it first comes out. I have no doubt DS created a solid product and I have never been disappointed with anything of their's I've tried. That being said, let's look at the game changers. Years back there was Geranamine. PA gave us that and at the time every review was positive and people were ranting and raving about how great it was. Fast forward to today and there seem to be more negative reviews than positive. I respond well to 1,3 and enjoy the product but many do not seem to and there's constant talk of it being pulled off the market any day. Another product that stood above the rest was SX. I am confident that a reputable company like DS would not pull shady stuff like that but it's a great example of a product everybody loved at first and look where it is now. I couldn't hope more that DS has really stumbled upon something great and if anybody would it would be them but the fact of the matter is there has to be an ingredient in there that is the game changer and making this stand above the rest if all of the reviews are true and correct and more than new product hype. What is that ingredient? What is it's history? What tests on safety have been done on it? Why has nobody in this competitive market come across this before? As responsible consumers (purchasing and ingesting) these are questions we should be asking ourselves.

It is honestly the synergy of ingredients as opposed to any single ingredient.

[PinchTheBear]

It is honestly the synergy of ingredients as opposed to any single ingredient.

Answer not complex enough. Must be a lie.

[justfive]

Answer not complex enough. Must be a lie.

It saddens me that this is what you concluded from the concerns that people have

Theres a significant difference between someone asking for your company secrets which you cant disclose VS asking for more information than the generic "just give it a try cause it works" response.

Theres also a significant differene between someone asking questions because they are either concerned with their own safety or they want to know more about the product VS them thinking everything is a lie and trying to take DS down.

[tooslowandfat]

It saddens me that this is what you concluded from the concerns that people have

Theres a significant difference between someone asking for your company secrets which you cant disclose VS asking for more information than the generic "just give it a try cause it works" response.

Theres also a significant differene between someone asking questions because they are either concerned with their own safety or they want to know more about the product VS them thinking everything is a lie and trying to take DS down.

Very true.

[CatFunt]

It is honestly the synergy of ingredients as opposed to any single ingredient.

Im struggling to understand why people cant grasp this. It makes perfect sense to me that a combination of the right volumes of ingredients will produce a better effect than the sum of the individual parts. Illegal drugs taught me that much.

That said I dont think the responses are thorough enough and Just Five is correct in what hes saying, we should have full disclosure in what we are taking and be assured that each ingredient has been thoroughly researched.

Kinesis™ Proprietary Blend 4,580mg *
Trimethylglycine (Betaine Anhydrous), Creatine Monohydrate, L-Citrulline, Dendrobex™ (Dendrobium Extract) (Stem) (Concentrated For Alkaloid Content Including Dendrobine, Dendroxine, Dendramine, B-Phenylethylamine, N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince, And N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Citramine™ (Citrus Reticulata Extract) (Fruit) (Concentrated For N-Methyltyramine Content), Caffeine Anhydrous

However if that list IS conclusive of whats in the product then surely its as simple as checking each one and finding out the human interactions?

[justfive]

Im struggling to understand why people cant grasp this. It makes perfect sense to me that a combination of the right volumes of ingredients will produce a better effect than the sum of the individual parts. Illegal drugs taught me that much.

A well formulated product can make a whole world of a difference in terms of how effective it is.

That said I dont think the responses are thorough enough and Just Five is correct in what hes saying, we should have full disclosure in what we are taking and be assured that each ingredient has been thoroughly researched.

Zing. Bingo. Whatever else the cool kids say these days with regards to statements they agree with

[D3Baseball]

A well formulated product can make a whole world of a difference in terms of how effective it is.



Zing. Bingo. Whatever else the cool kids say these days with regards to statements they agree with

There are three ingredients that matter in this product (the others are really, really underdosed. Remind you of any other popular preworkouts?) - Dendrobex (which is metabolites of PEA), Citramine (NMT), and Caffeine. The PEA is the issue and what is causing side effects.

[PinchTheBear]

It saddens me that this is what you concluded from the concerns that people have

lolwut I'm joking around with 'plunk lighten up

Im struggling to understand why people cant grasp this.

Exactly.

There are three ingredients that matter in this product (the others are really, really underdosed.

[CatFunt]

There are three ingredients that matter in this product (the others are really, really underdosed. Remind you of any other popular preworkouts?) - Dendrobex (which is metabolites of PEA), Citramine (NMT), and Caffeine. The PEA is the issue and what is causing side effects.

When you mention PEA so you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine this stuff? Doesnt sound safe to take if you are on any MAO or SSRI etc.

Wonder if those with bad effects/sides are on anti depressants?

[PinchTheBear]

Wonder if those with bad effects/sides are on anti depressants?

I'm hopeful that users would read the label before making that mistake.

[D3Baseball]

lolwut I'm joking around with 'plunk lighten up



Exactly.

So you're telling me there is room for proper dosages of Betaine, Creatine, and L-Citrulline in the 4580mg blend? That's not even enough for the creatine. There could be enough Betaine, but I haven't seen conclusively what a good dose of what that would be or if dosing solely pre-workout and on workout days would be enough.

L-Citrulline? No way there's an efficacious or even worthwhile amount.
Creatine? Not even close.

[D3Baseball]

When you mention PEA so you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine this stuff? Doesnt sound safe to take if you are on any MAO or SSRI etc.

Wonder if those with bad effects/sides are on anti depressants?

The ones I know of are not and my impression is that these folks are having problems specifically with the PEA metabolites and don't have issues with PEA HCl, which is what would normally be included in different kinds of supplementation and is also a part of this formula separate from Dendrobex.

[CatFunt]

I'm hopeful that users would read the label before making that mistake.

Never underestimate the stupidity of others.

Out of interest how many calories and or carbs are in a 5g scoop? Negligible?

[justfive]

lolwut I'm joking around with 'plunk lighten up

Even though you were joking, you actually summed up how it really is very nicely.

[justfive]

When you mention PEA so you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine this stuff? Doesnt sound safe to take if you are on any MAO or SSRI etc.

Wonder if those with bad effects/sides are on anti depressants?

This will be the case for a very small %, but I wouldnt even consider this as the reason for why people get the side effects that they get. It seems too abstract of a reason to me and I know many people who arent on them, including myself.

[PinchTheBear]

So you're telling me there is room for proper dosages of Betaine, Creatine, and L-Citrulline in the 4580mg blend?

Absolutely definitely yes. This product underwent performance testing and each dose was adjusted for an independent, unique criterion; viz., any other ratio of citrulline:betaine within ~1g variance of each tended to cause either nausea or cramps, too much CrM caused bloating, creatine HCl ruined the taste and too little CrM reduced performance, et cetera.

Never underestimate the stupidity of others.

Word.

Out of interest how many calories and or carbs are in a 5g scoop? Negligible?

Negligible.

[D3Baseball]

Absolutely definitely yes. This product underwent performance testing and each dose was adjusted for an independent, unique criterion; viz., any other ratio of citrulline:betaine within ~1g variance of each tended to cause either nausea or cramps, too much CrM caused bloating, creatine HCl ruined the taste and too little CrM reduced performance, et cetera.



Word.



Negligible.

So a dusting of Citrulline > No citrulline? I'm trying to figure out if you're saying that the citrulline was needed along with Betaine or just that Betaine restricted the amount of citrulline that was present.

Same with creatine. Couldn't you have just said, "looks like a dose of creatine doesn't work in this product" instead of putting a useless ~1g dose of Mono?

[CatFunt]

This will be the case for a very small %, but I wouldnt even consider this as the reason for why people get the side effects that they get. It seems too abstract of a reason to me and I know many people who arent on them, including myself.

Just a thought that sprung up when I saw the compound, I also know half the population are on anti depressants these days it seems!

[Yamar1]

maybe its because the lack of credibility?

What makes a positive review that much more creditable? This is one of the things that drives me nuts on this board. 100 people can post bogus reviews with ZERO objective data on a product change 100,000 other things in their training/lifestyle, and credit the product for the reason they get a hard on in the morning and than it turns into a 20 page butt slapping thread.

BUT.....

God forbid if just one person posts a negative subjective review on a product.

I have tried products on here that have been way over-fluffed by supplement fan boys that I think are complete garbage... I won't dare to post my review (which I believe can be helpful) simply because I don't feel like dealing with the flac.

[PinchTheBear]

So a dusting of Citrulline > No citrulline? I'm trying to figure out if you're saying that the citrulline was needed along with Betaine or just that Betaine restricted the amount of citrulline that was present.

Same with creatine. Couldn't you have just said, "looks like a dose of creatine doesn't work in this product" instead of putting a useless ~1g dose of Mono?

They were all needed in their exact proportions to make the complete formula better than its several predecessors throughout testing. There is greater than one gram of all three individually in one scoop. The creatine dose improved performance, plainly and simply.

[justfive]

Just a thought that sprung up when I saw the compound, I also know half the population are on anti depressants these days it seems!

No doubt theres people who will be using this product when they shouldnt. Cant single out craze when it comes to the stupidity of certain individuals in the population.

[CatFunt]

What makes a positive review that much more creditable? This is one of the things that drives me nuts on this board. 100 people can post bogus reviews with ZERO objective data on a product change 100,000 other things in their training/lifestyle, and credit the product for the reason they get a hard on in the morning and than it turns into a 20 page butt slapping thread.

BUT.....

God forbid if just one person posts a negative subjective review on a product.

I have tried products on here that have been way over-fluffed by supplement fan boys that I think are complete garbage... I won't dare to post my review (which I believe can be helpful) simply because I don't feel like dealing with the flac.

Hes not suggesting a negative review lacks credibility and a positive has auto credibility.

Hes saying that reviews from certain accounts lack credibility good or bad.

[itzDodge]

To all the people attacking the DS reps for not giving out enough information, have you even tried PMing the reps asking your specific questions or do you just prefer to openly talk bad about a company and their reps for not spoon feeding you everything about their product without even being questioned directly?

[PinchTheBear]

To all the people attacking the DS reps for not giving out enough information, have you even tried PMing the reps asking your specific questions or do you just prefer to openly talk bad about a company and their reps for not spoon feeding you everything about their product without even being questioned directly?

One has, calmly and respectfully.

[itzDodge]

One has, calmly and respectfully.

You'd think with the amount of people who have taken issue with Craze, the number would much higher.