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  1. #31
    Animal Rep G Diesel's Avatar
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    A lot of knowledge in this thread... Rev8 knows of what he speaks.

    I always look to pick up a tip or a nugget of training wisdom here and there from him in order to raise my own game.

    Peace, G
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  2. #32
    Animal Rep ragingmuscle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by G Diesel View Post
    A lot of knowledge in this thread... Rev8 knows of what he speaks.

    I always look to pick up a tip or a nugget of training wisdom here and there from him in order to raise my own game.

    Peace, G
    I just try to keep up with the guy!
    Lets get to work

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  3. #33
    Registered User rev8ball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by G Diesel View Post
    A lot of knowledge in this thread... Rev8 knows of what he speaks.

    I always look to pick up a tip or a nugget of training wisdom here and there from him in order to raise my own game.

    Peace, G

    Originally Posted by ragingmuscle View Post
    I just try to keep up with the guy!

    You guys are gonna make me blush.....lol

    Seriously, bros, thanks for the props. A wise man once said that a man who does what he loves for a living will never work a day in his life. That is how I try to roll.....
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  4. #34
    The Deadman mrdead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by G Diesel View Post
    A lot of knowledge in this thread... Rev8 knows of what he speaks.

    I always look to pick up a tip or a nugget of training wisdom here and there from him in order to raise my own game.

    Peace, G
    Originally Posted by ragingmuscle View Post
    I just try to keep up with the guy!
    Great... Now his head won't fit through conventional doorways... *LOL*


    Originally Posted by rev8ball View Post
    You guys are gonna make me blush.....lol

    Seriously, bros, thanks for the props. A wise man once said that a man who does what he loves for a living will never work a day in his life. That is how I try to roll.....
    Too true... As a matter of fact, Rage and I were just talking about this earlier today... *LOL*
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  5. #35
    Registered User jdyqf's Avatar
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    1 Question: I am a powerlifter at the moment. I want to do this training because I am trying to put on around 20 lbs as soon as possible, but not a dirty bulk. Since this program does not use squats or deadlifts, at the end of the session, how bad are my numbers going to be affected? Is this program for someone like me?
    PR's: 365 | 280 | 500 = 1145 lbs

    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161814243&p=1242966893#post1242966893
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  6. #36
    Registered User rockwood51's Avatar
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    I'm going to step in and reply and rev or dead can correct me if I say anything out of turn:

    HRT is more of a technique than a program. Some of us are indeed following Tom's "program" including his diet/split/cardio/lifts. However, the HRT principles can be applied to most any exercise. So if deadlifts and squats are required on your leg day, sub them in for the leg press (squats) and reverse hack squats (deadlifts).

    There are actually several people in the program who do one or both of these on their leg days who are doing great. I'd be willing to say that you'd probably come out the other end of 12 weeks using the HRT method and be stronger. I know many of us who are 6-10 weeks in are seeing serious strength improvements.

    As far as a "dirty bulk" I'd say that revolves mostly around how you eat to gain the weight not what "program" you choose (as long as its heavy ass weight.)

    Crap in = Crap out. <-- Trust me I'm an expert in that.
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  7. #37
    HUGEbanks BB2K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rockwood51 View Post
    I'm going to step in and reply and rev or dead can correct me if I say anything out of turn:

    HRT is more of a technique than a program. Some of us are indeed following Tom's "program" including his diet/split/cardio/lifts. However, the HRT principles can be applied to most any exercise. So if deadlifts and squats are required on your leg day, sub them in for the leg press (squats) and reverse hack squats (deadlifts).

    There are actually several people in the program who do one or both of these on their leg days who are doing great. I'd be willing to say that you'd probably come out the other end of 12 weeks using the HRT method and be stronger. I know many of us who are 6-10 weeks in are seeing serious strength improvements.

    As far as a "dirty bulk" I'd say that revolves mostly around how you eat to gain the weight not what "program" you choose (as long as its heavy ass weight.)

    Crap in = Crap out. <-- Trust me I'm an expert in that.

    I agree with you, i love this program and my strength is really staring to climd, it wasnt so good in the beginning but now its going up nicely. Rev Hacks are wondeful, i love them.
    Gotoatmeal.com
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  8. #38
    Registered User jdyqf's Avatar
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    Ok thanks you two. Appreciate the responses. Also, where can I find the solo training for this. I cannot find anyone as dedicated to lifting as I am. I have friends that lift, but not CONSISTENTLY.
    PR's: 365 | 280 | 500 = 1145 lbs

    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161814243&p=1242966893#post1242966893
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  9. #39
    HUGEbanks BB2K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jdyqf View Post
    Ok thanks you two. Appreciate the responses. Also, where can I find the solo training for this. I cannot find anyone as dedicated to lifting as I am. I have friends that lift, but not CONSISTENTLY.
    I'm doing the solo routine. The link is in my sig. Come follow along.
    Gotoatmeal.com
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  10. #40
    The Deadman mrdead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jdyqf View Post
    Ok thanks you two. Appreciate the responses. Also, where can I find the solo training for this. I cannot find anyone as dedicated to lifting as I am. I have friends that lift, but not CONSISTENTLY.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=139729913
    "No one cared who I was until I put on the mask..."

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  11. #41
    Registered User rev8ball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jdyqf View Post
    1 Question: I am a powerlifter at the moment. I want to do this training because I am trying to put on around 20 lbs as soon as possible, but not a dirty bulk. Since this program does not use squats or deadlifts, at the end of the session, how bad are my numbers going to be affected? Is this program for someone like me?

    An exercise can be substituted, but doing the forced negatives on DLs and squats may prove difficult, whether solo or with a partner.

    This program focuses on increasing Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is primarily for adding size, not strength. However, there has been some anecdotal support that it may increase strength, albeit maybe not as progressive as actually training for strength. We think it may be partially due to increased motor recruitment, better coordination (mind/muscle connection, for example), etc. We are still studying that; in fact, we are currently running a few of our strength athletes through it, varying exercises, sets, reps, percentages, etc., to see how this affects their abilities.

    As a side note, our athletes do not focus on their competitive lifts all the time. There are cycles where they focus on other aspects of their training. In other words, it is possible to train another regimen for a time without losing the ability to hit your main lifts; in fact, they can increase, depending on the cycles.

    That all being said, how fast is “soon as possible?” I’m asking because putting on quality weight can be a long progress. I mean 20 lbs. of legitimate (and in your case, functional) mass takes time, and no training program, diet, etc., is going to change that.

    Hope that helps, and best of luck…..
    Dominate Your Game!

    Trample the Weak. Hurdle the Dead.
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  12. #42
    Registered User AlanApe's Avatar
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    I work out at home, on my own in the garage, with a full cage, leg press machine, bench etc etc. I'd never get the wife to wake up with me at 4.30am to push down on the bar! Are there any alternatives?

    I read (I think it was Steve Holman from Iron Man magazine) that slow eccentric and explosive (or standard speed) concentric would also develop sarcoplasm growth. Would this be an alternative for those unable to get a partner? Would a 1 second concentric and 4 to 6 second eccentric work similarly??
    "I'll do today what others won't so I can do tomorrow what others can't" - such a fitting quote for bodybuilding!
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  13. #43
    HUGEbanks BB2K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlanApe View Post
    I work out at home, on my own in the garage, with a full cage, leg press machine, bench etc etc. I'd never get the wife to wake up with me at 4.30am to push down on the bar! Are there any alternatives?

    I read (I think it was Steve Holman from Iron Man magazine) that slow eccentric and explosive (or standard speed) concentric would also develop sarcoplasm growth. Would this be an alternative for those unable to get a partner? Would a 1 second concentric and 4 to 6 second eccentric work similarly??
    You can do the solo version. Check out my log. Link in my sig. I do 8 regular reps followed by 6 slower reps (I aim for 5 second eccentric) this has been working VERY well for me. When you don't have a partner the solo version of HRT is perfect and IMO just as good as the regular HRT program.
    Gotoatmeal.com
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  14. #44
    Registered User rev8ball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BB2K View Post
    You can do the solo version. Check out my log. Link in my sig. I do 8 regular reps followed by 6 slower reps (I aim for 5 second eccentric) this has been working VERY well for me. When you don't have a partner the solo version of HRT is perfect and IMO just as good as the regular HRT program.

    Bingo. Good stuff....
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  15. #45
    Hellraiser Training rbowman91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rev8ball View Post
    An exercise can be substituted, but doing the forced negatives on DLs and squats may prove difficult, whether solo or with a partner.

    This program focuses on increasing Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is primarily for adding size, not strength. However, there has been some anecdotal support that it may increase strength, albeit maybe not as progressive as actually training for strength. We think it may be partially due to increased motor recruitment, better coordination (mind/muscle connection, for example), etc. We are still studying that; in fact, we are currently running a few of our strength athletes through it, varying exercises, sets, reps, percentages, etc., to see how this affects their abilities.

    As a side note, our athletes do not focus on their competitive lifts all the time. There are cycles where they focus on other aspects of their training. In other words, it is possible to train another regimen for a time without losing the ability to hit your main lifts; in fact, they can increase, depending on the cycles.

    That all being said, how fast is “soon as possible?” I’m asking because putting on quality weight can be a long progress. I mean 20 lbs. of legitimate (and in your case, functional) mass takes time, and no training program, diet, etc., is going to change that.

    Hope that helps, and best of luck…..
    On a side note, Steve and I both feel like the strength gains may be more noticable than origionally expected. Prior to doing HRT, steve couldn't do any dips (even just body weight). Its week 11, and he can do dips with a 45 lb weight chained to him while I apply hellcentrics for a full 8+4.

    Whenever we finish a hell session, we like to do one set of something "normal" without hellcentrics just to see where they are at compared to when we started. My poundages overall are consistently roughly 50% higher than they were before the program (this is if I do a low-rep heavy set.) Not only that, but I noticed a lot more muscle control (more noticable on freeweights). For instance, when I used to fail and lose form (getting shakey) at, say, the 11th rep out of 12, I am now able to control the weight significantly and slowly raise it up for the final rep, even if i THINK there's no way I'll finish. I'm somehow generally able to make it happen. Maybe the stabilizers are kicking in?
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  16. #46
    Registered User weakestaround's Avatar
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    im a noob

    Hey guys I have read a lot of your posts, and not sure but it sounds very similar to mike mentzer basis of high intensity weight training. I'm by no means an expert, but have read a few of his books. Am I correct, is this a similar systematic approach to full on muscle destruction?
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  17. #47
    Registered User weakestaround's Avatar
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    one more thing.

    Could someone private message me and tell me how to subscribe or follow these thread? Like I said I'm totally new, and don't want to forget or miss a reply. Thanks!
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  18. #48
    Registered User rev8ball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rbowman91 View Post
    On a side note, Steve and I both feel like the strength gains may be more noticable than origionally expected. Prior to doing HRT, steve couldn't do any dips (even just body weight). Its week 11, and he can do dips with a 45 lb weight chained to him while I apply hellcentrics for a full 8+4.

    Whenever we finish a hell session, we like to do one set of something "normal" without hellcentrics just to see where they are at compared to when we started. My poundages overall are consistently roughly 50% higher than they were before the program (this is if I do a low-rep heavy set.) Not only that, but I noticed a lot more muscle control (more noticable on freeweights). For instance, when I used to fail and lose form (getting shakey) at, say, the 11th rep out of 12, I am now able to control the weight significantly and slowly raise it up for the final rep, even if i THINK there's no way I'll finish. I'm somehow generally able to make it happen. Maybe the stabilizers are kicking in?
    Glad to hear the improvements!
    There may be several things involved with this, including stabilizers, and we are currently studying it. This is one of the reasons why it may be applicable to other demographics (i.e. rehab, etc.).
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  19. #49
    The Deadman mrdead's Avatar
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    I heard there was going to be a HRT seminar at the Cage...
    "No one cared who I was until I put on the mask..."

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  20. #50
    Registered User rev8ball's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrdead View Post
    I heard there was going to be a HRT seminar at the Cage...
    Yeppers, Friday at 4pm.
    Really looking forward to this one, especially with some of the stuff we've come up with over the last few months... 'nuff said..... *evil laugh*
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  21. #51
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    Hello,

    On my off days I go in the hot tub after swimming. In the cardio portion for the off days you say to keep your heart rate around 110 and after swimming its usually 120, will it hurt me to go into the hot tub immediately after.
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    1. Research shows that during the normal positive and negative movement, the load should be about 70% 1RM. After this, it is necessary to force the body to increase the levels of fluids in the muscles by increasing the demand on them. This is done with the eccentric-only part of the movements. The load for this segment should be about 100-140% 1RM, and reps should stay between 3-5 reps per set, with a 3 to 5 second count. Hellcentrics does just this.

    Sorry to be a hassle, was just curious if you had the reference for this research so I could do some further reading on this area?

    Thanks, great information
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    Had never heard of this till today, something I will Certainly be looking into.
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    Thanks for the thread Michael. This was very helpful.
    weight loss - http://lifetime-fitness.net/healthy-lifestyle/2012/becoming-fit-this-summer-season
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  25. #55
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    Originally Posted by rev8ball View Post
    Increasing muscle size (hypertrophy) can be done in two ways: by increasing the size of muscle fibers (Myofibrillar); and by increasing the amount of fluids in the muscles (Sarcoplasmic).

    The body keeps certain fluids within the muscles in order to keep the tissue functioning normally. These fluids contain nutrients such as carbohydrates, calcium, Creatine, ATP, etc. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy occurs when the body is forced to increase the amount of these fluids in the muscles in order to keep up with the demands of training; this increases the overall size of the muscles.

    One of the best ways to increase these fluids is through eccentric training, that is, training the negatives. Muscles are much stronger in this part of the lift (about 20-50% stronger than in the positives), so they are able to handle much heavier loads. Hitting muscles hard during the negatives has been shown to produce greater gains in lean mass than just training the positives alone. But it is tough to train the negatives intensely enough when muscles are limited by the positives in just how much they can handle. And what makes it even more difficult is that these benefits will only happen when the negatives and the positives are trained together.

    Hellcentrics is a great yet simple way to accomplish all of this and reap the benefits of eccentric training, and it will demolish your muscles from several directions:

    1. Research shows that during the normal positive and negative movement, the load should be about 70% 1RM. After this, it is necessary to force the body to increase the levels of fluids in the muscles by increasing the demand on them. This is done with the eccentric-only part of the movements. The load for this segment should be about 100-140% 1RM, and reps should stay between 3-5 reps per set, with a 3 to 5 second count. Hellcentrics does just this.

    2. Hellcentrics not only hits fast twitch fibers hard, but it also decreases the use of slow twitch fibers. Fast twitch fibers are the best for growth, while slow twitch are not. Therefore, this is a great recipe for hypertrophy.

    3. Research also shows that anabolic hormonal levels increase after specifically focusing on highly intensive eccentrics during a training regimen. Need we say more?

    By overloading the muscles during the negatives while at the same time still hitting the positives without mercy, Hellcentrics creates a great environment for muscle growth.
    thanks for posting this it been feeling like im about to hit a platuea i dont want to go there
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  26. #56
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    My main question from the beggining of my cycle has been this: The way the routine is set up doesnt seem to hit complimenting muscle areas. By this I mean typically a workout for me consisted of chest/tri back/bi shoulders. I'm no expert, not even close... but why is this, and what are the benefits/negatives associated with it?
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    Here is the abstract of a study on HRT that we recently concluded:

    Abstract
    Palmieri, Michael S.; The Institute of Sport Science & Athletic Conditioning; 2012. The effects on lean body mass by using a split-set with forced eccentrics training regimen. Several studies have reported on the successful effects of forced eccentrics on Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Yet, specific applications to physique athletes are not common. The aim of this investigation was to examine the effects of an exercise regimen consisting of full range of motion movements followed by force eccentric repetitions on the overall body mass of physique athletes. Eight intermediate-experienced physique athletes completed twelve weeks of a specific training program, designated as “Hellcentrics” by its developer, which involves this method. Though a relatively small n is not conducive for using inferential statistics, post-intervention results did demonstrate with the participants a three pound average increase in body weight, and a 3.9 percent average decrease in body fat.
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    THis is a real good read thanks for all the clarity in this training!
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