stupid question: fried vs unfried

[PISTELERO]

Is frying potatoes in olive oil the same as eating raw olive oil covered potatoes? Or does the frying process somehow make it unhealthy?
Thanks.

[SOJA]

Same thing.

[synthetic]

Same thing.

no

frying hydrogenates oils quicker since there is no warm up period

[SOJA]

no

frying hydrogenates oils quicker since there is no warm up period

In case you failed chemistry, it isn't possible to hydrogenate oils on a home stove. The most damage you'll do is oxidize the oils and its related fragrances. You would need to do it on a commercial scale with the required equipment or in a laboratory.

[fsd2]

i would say its the same thing if your using the same amount of oil in both cases

[Mr_Aryze]

In case you failed chemistry, it isn't possible to hydrogenate oils on a home stove. The most damage you'll do is oxidize the oils and its related fragrances. You would need to do it on a commercial scale with the required equipment or in a laboratory.

BOOM!! Headshot.

[lokilok]

Olive oil is intolerant to high heat at 200 to 250 degree. At high heat, all the nutrients will be gone.
So eating potato with raw olive oil is not the same as fried olive oil.
Frying at very high temperature also creates radicals and carcinogens. It is not advisable to eat fried food often.

[SOJA]

Olive oil is intolerant to high heat at 200 to 250 degree. At high heat, all the nutrients will be gone.
So eating potato with raw olive oil is not the same as fried olive oil.
Frying at very high temperature also creates radicals and carcinogens. It is not advisable to eat fried food often.

Present nutrient balance will decrease ever so slightly, not become destroyed. Free radicals are present in all grades of olive oil. Exposure to air and sunlight starts the oxidation process. Carcinogenic properties don't appear until well past the smoke point. Olive oils start at a smoke point of 375°F and go upwards to the mid 400s. It's the same and higher than other vegetable/seed source oils.

[WonderPug]

Olive oil is intolerant to high heat at 200 to 250 degree. At high heat, all the nutrients will be gone.

You seem to be "intolerant" towards logic.

OP: Listen to SOJA.

[SOJA]

You seem to be "intolerant" towards logic.

OP: Listen to SOJA.

So does Synthetic. He left me a rep telling me to look at some study that used pressurized heating, pure hydrogen gas, a metal catalyst and temperatures that would cause a stove to melt down. Thanks for wasting my time.

[synthetic]

So does Synthetic. He left me a rep telling me to look at some study that used pressurized heating, pure hydrogen gas, a metal catalyst and temperatures that would cause a stove to melt down. Thanks for wasting my time.

a catalyst speeds a reaction up, so in due TIME, it will hydrogenate.

[SOJA]

a catalyst speeds a reaction up, so in due TIME, it will hydrogenate.

Again, how stupid are you? What stove is capable of putting out over 1,000* F and how will you be able to pump in pure hydrogen into the mixture for dozens of hours without the entire thing exploding or melting down the stove? Your in due time will be hundreds if not thousands of hours. Go take a HS chemistry class. You're a delusional troll. The oil will breakdown before you get to that point.


High pressure vat + metal + extreme high heat + pure hydrogen gas injected into the medium + many, many, many hours = hydrogenated oils.

Conventional stove top heating to and past smoke point multiple times won't hydrogenate the oils. The oil would breakdown before it ever got the chance to turn into a solid.

[WonderPug]

You're a delusional troll.

Synthetic is not a troll

[synthetic]

Again, how stupid are you? What stove is capable of putting out over 1,000* F and how will you be able to pump in pure hydrogen into the mixture for dozens of hours without the entire thing exploding or melting down the stove? Your in due time will be hundreds if not thousands of hours. Go take a HS chemistry class. You're a delusional troll. The oil will breakdown before you get to that point.


High pressure vat + metal + extreme high heat + pure hydrogen gas injected into the medium + many, many, many hours = hydrogenated oils.

Conventional stove top heating to and past smoke point multiple times won't hydrogenate the oils. The oil would breakdown before it ever got the chance to turn into a solid.

so your telling me at mcdonalds the fryers have a tank of hydrogen gas pumping hydrogen into the fryer?

[oskarhul09]

so your telling me at mcdonalds the fryers have a tank of hydrogen gas pumping hydrogen into the fryer?

or maybe they cook with an already hydrogenated oil?

[synthetic]

or maybe they cook with an already hydrogenated oil?

deep fryers have a catalyst which is used to speed of the hydrogenation rate ; the hydrogen atoms are already present in fat molecules - high heat rearranges the molecules, you do not need to add hydrogen to make artifical transfat ... you can creat the same thing by dropping hydrogen

[ironwill2008]

Is frying potatoes in olive oil the same as eating raw olive oil covered potatoes? Or does the frying process somehow make it unhealthy?
Thanks.

If you heat the oil beyond it's smoke point, it will begin to break down, and lose it's healthful properties.

The solution? Turn the heat down a bit, use a cooking oil with a higher smoke point, or both.

[keramon02]

Synthetic is not a troll

It's true. Trolls are actually funny, not just sad.

[345ehfg346nger]

I've had the same question in the back of my head for awhile. One of the ways I cook chicken is dipping it in egg, rolling it in flour or breadcrumbs then "frying" it in olive oil. Is this considered unhealthy or perfectly fine to eat?

[ironwill2008]

I've had the same question in the back of my head for awhile. One of the ways I cook chicken is dipping it in egg, rolling it in flour or breadcrumbs then "frying" it in olive oil. Is this considered unhealthy or perfectly fine to eat?

What might possibly be "unhealthy" about this?

[synthetic]

What might possibly be "unhealthy" about this?

that the heat damages/alters the oil to something unnatural

[oskarhul09]

deep fryers have a catalyst which is used to speed of the hydrogenation rate ; the hydrogen atoms are already present in fat molecules - high heat rearranges the molecules, you do not need to add hydrogen to make artifical transfat ... you can creat the same thing by dropping hydrogen

i find this very hard to believe, that would mean that cooking anything would turn it bad and make it contain trans fats. Got any studies to prove this or just hypothetical nonsense?

[synthetic]

i find this very hard to believe, that would mean that cooking anything would turn it bad and make it contain trans fats. Got any studies to prove this or just hypothetical nonsense?

use google .. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true

[oskarhul09]

use google ..

strong sources.

Googling also lead to this:
Trans Fatty Acids Are Not Formed by Heating Vegetable Oils
By Mary G. Enig, PhD
One of the frequent questions I receive in my email concerns the formation of trans fatty acids in the typical cooking process. I was quite surprised the first time I received this question, for several reasons. I knew that there were several things that were necessary for the formation of the trans fatty acids. One was a tank of hydrogen; second was a closed container, which allowed an adequate vacuum to form; third, an appropriate catalyst was needed; and last, the heat that would allow the chemical changes to occur had to be sufficiently high in conjunction with the other components.

During my many years of analyzing foods for the presence of trans fatty acids, I had found numerous examples of used frying oil that had started out without being partially hydrogenated and did not have any trans fatty acids, and there was still never any trace of trans fatty acids in the used oil unless the oil had been used for frying foods that had been prefried in a partially hydrogenated oil.

I am not sure who started the rumor that frying or even just cooking or heating polyunsaturated oils would produce trans fatty acids in those oils; but it is just that, an untrue rumor. It was likely started by one of the many internet writers hired to fill space or by someone who thought he or she knew the reason that there was trans fat in a particular product.

The idea that cooking with heat damages the oils that are highly polyunsaturated is true and the warning against cooking or frying using fragile oils such as flaxseed oil is valid, but not because trans fats are formed. What is formed under harsh circumstances such as high-temperature cooking and frying is a polymerized oil, and this is because the heat has helped to form free radicals and then various breakdown products. (Flaxseed oil that is still in the ground seed can be heated in baking and it does not become damaged.)
A number of years ago, a dietitian/nutritionist told me about her experience trying to make trans fatty acids in an open pan on top of the stove. She wanted to make a video of the process to use for teaching purposes. She was unsuccessful with this venture, and she had contacted me to ask me why her project had failed. She had not actually known how the trans were formed to begin with and assumed from what she had been told that the raising of the temperature would cause the trans to form. The project had been undertaken in one of the laboratories in a local university, and the analysis was to be done by someone in the same laboratory who knew how to use the instrument for analyzing the oil.

Certain types of trans fatty acids could probably be formed from a highly polyunsaturated oil during deep fat frying in one of the new pressure cooker fryers, but these types of trans fats would be like those formed in high pressure deodorization. They would not be the broad range of trans fats with delta-6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. So far, none of the groups doing analysis have reported this. Very small amounts of trans fatty acids have been found in corn chip products formed by extrusion cooking. This is due to the high pressure and the presence of a type of alkaline catalyst; but those trans that are formed are reported only in trace amounts from omega-6 or omega-3 oils.

Those fats and oils that are appropriate for cooking or sautéing and will withstand fairly high temperatures are those that have been in use for thousands of years, including olive oil as well as the more stable saturated coconut and palm oils and the animal tallows. Oil such as sesame oil with its special heat-activated antioxidants can be blended with coconut oil and olive oil to form very stable good cooking oil.


Pretty much confirms wut soja is saying.

[synthetic]

strong sources.

Googling also lead to this:
Trans Fatty Acids Are Not Formed by Heating Vegetable Oils
By Mary G. Enig, PhD
One of the frequent questions I receive in my email concerns the formation of trans fatty acids in the typical cooking process. I was quite surprised the first time I received this question, for several reasons. I knew that there were several things that were necessary for the formation of the trans fatty acids. One was a tank of hydrogen; second was a closed container, which allowed an adequate vacuum to form; third, an appropriate catalyst was needed; and last, the heat that would allow the chemical changes to occur had to be sufficiently high in conjunction with the other components.

During my many years of analyzing foods for the presence of trans fatty acids, I had found numerous examples of used frying oil that had started out without being partially hydrogenated and did not have any trans fatty acids, and there was still never any trace of trans fatty acids in the used oil unless the oil had been used for frying foods that had been prefried in a partially hydrogenated oil.

I am not sure who started the rumor that frying or even just cooking or heating polyunsaturated oils would produce trans fatty acids in those oils; but it is just that, an untrue rumor. It was likely started by one of the many internet writers hired to fill space or by someone who thought he or she knew the reason that there was trans fat in a particular product.

The idea that cooking with heat damages the oils that are highly polyunsaturated is true and the warning against cooking or frying using fragile oils such as flaxseed oil is valid, but not because trans fats are formed. What is formed under harsh circumstances such as high-temperature cooking and frying is a polymerized oil, and this is because the heat has helped to form free radicals and then various breakdown products. (Flaxseed oil that is still in the ground seed can be heated in baking and it does not become damaged.)
A number of years ago, a dietitian/nutritionist told me about her experience trying to make trans fatty acids in an open pan on top of the stove. She wanted to make a video of the process to use for teaching purposes. She was unsuccessful with this venture, and she had contacted me to ask me why her project had failed. She had not actually known how the trans were formed to begin with and assumed from what she had been told that the raising of the temperature would cause the trans to form. The project had been undertaken in one of the laboratories in a local university, and the analysis was to be done by someone in the same laboratory who knew how to use the instrument for analyzing the oil.

Certain types of trans fatty acids could probably be formed from a highly polyunsaturated oil during deep fat frying in one of the new pressure cooker fryers, but these types of trans fats would be like those formed in high pressure deodorization. They would not be the broad range of trans fats with delta-6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. So far, none of the groups doing analysis have reported this. Very small amounts of trans fatty acids have been found in corn chip products formed by extrusion cooking. This is due to the high pressure and the presence of a type of alkaline catalyst; but those trans that are formed are reported only in trace amounts from omega-6 or omega-3 oils.

Those fats and oils that are appropriate for cooking or sautéing and will withstand fairly high temperatures are those that have been in use for thousands of years, including olive oil as well as the more stable saturated coconut and palm oils and the animal tallows. Oil such as sesame oil with its special heat-activated antioxidants can be blended with coconut oil and olive oil to form very stable good cooking oil.


Pretty much confirms wut soja is saying.

you post a blog post i post something that indicated results from a study...

[vrundmc]

you post a blog post i post something that indicated results from a study...

And you cited this one article from 2003 that wasn't a scientific study. Still, the claim is still ridiculous...500 degrees for 30 mins?

From the Article:
"Wolke also explains that trans fatty acids can be "formed by the high temperatures of frying, so you may be making them yourself." High heat can cause the formation of minuscule amounts of trans fatty acids over extended lengths of time. But temperatures for traditional frying (300 to 350 degrees) and relatively short cooking times (5 to 10 minutes) would have a negligible effect on the formation of trans fat in cooking oil. For example, a recent study conducted to determine the levels of trans fat isomers formed by heat found that in canola oil heated to 500 degrees for 30 minutes, trans fat levels were increased by only 1 percent. Traditional frying at lower temperatures for shorter lengths of time would produce significantly fewer trans fats."

[Kirra]

Lmao, 5 star thread.

[SOJA]

Synthetic, one day there will be a time and a place for you. Today simply is not one of those days. I'm sorry to inform you of this saddening news. May your bagel fearing heart murmur for success one day.

[synthetic]

Synthetic, one day there will be a time and a place for you. Today simply is not one of those days. I'm sorry to inform you of this saddening news. May your bagel fearing heart murmur for success one day.

this year is not one of your years...

Hudlický, Miloš (1996). Reductions in Organic Chemistry. Washington, D.C.: American Chemical Society. pp. 429. ISBN 0-8412-3344-6.

Hydrogenation, to treat with hydrogen, also a form of chemical reduction, is a chemical reaction between molecular hydrogen (H2) and another compound or element, usually in the presence of a catalyst. The process is commonly employed to reduce or saturate organic compounds. Hydrogenation typically constitutes the addition of pairs of hydrogen atoms to a molecule, generally an alkene. Catalysts are required for the reaction to be usable; non-catalytic hydrogenation takes place only at very high temperatures. Hydrogen adds to double and triple bonds in hydrocarbons.[1]


roasting of nuts (a fat) leading to transfatty acid formation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18680380

The aim of the present study was to quantify some nutritional and safety quality parameter changes that take place in nuts (roasting) and sesame seeds (dehulling, roasting, milling, and sterilization) during processing. Such evaluation was based on chemical analysis of various indicators of lipid alteration in raw and processed pistachios, almonds, peanuts, and tahina. Lipid oxidation was assessed by the evolution of lipid oxidation products including hydroperoxides, p-anisidine, and thiobarbituric acid reactive substances, as well as carboxymethyllysine (CML) and trans fatty acids (tFAs). All these parameters were significantly affected by the different processing stages, especially by roasting and sterilization (tahina). Nut roasting and sesame heat treatment increased the primary (hydroperoxides) and secondary (aldehydic compounds) lipid oxidation products, with the p-anisidine value reaching 6-11.5 and thiobarbituric acid reactive substances 3-5 mg/kg (equiv of malondialdehyde) in the different end products. In addition, roasting led to the formation of CML (between 12.7 and 17.7 ng/mg) and tFAs (between 0.6 and 0.9 g/100 g) in nuts and tahina, which were absent in the raw material. Roasting parameters appear as the critical factor to control to limit the CML and tFA formation in the final product.

[AlwaysTryin]

Synthetic, I'm sure I speak for 99% of BB.com here......



















Please just stop with your transfat crap