Full Body vs. Split Routines - Which to Choose?

[haugstad07]

Agreed.

Exactly what I did and I am 205lbs now up from 130 ( from 2 years ago ! )


Full Body -> upper/lower 3x a week -> body split each muscle 2x a week


: )


Good post

would rep u if I had rep that was worth a ****

There is absolutely no way you gained even remotely close to half of that weight in lean mass within that time frame. Mostly fat.

[AndySnr]

its very very helpfull, thanks a lot vox

[DonJPClarke]

After just starting All Pro's full body beginners routine


I have no ****ing idea how i am going to be able to squat on my Medium day tomorrow.

Can barely walk up the stairs or squat to take a dump.

Even the simple process of having a poo, is painful now!

[kronkness]

After just starting All Pro's full body beginners routine


I have no ****ing idea how i am going to be able to squat on my Medium day tomorrow.

Can barely walk up the stairs or squat to take a dump.

Even the simple process of having a poo, is painful now!

Same thing happened to me after starting it. Just gotta do it man, once you start squatting you will loosen up and won't be quite as sore. Go for it bro.

[chris1o]

Maybe combine with a push/pull commentary and get this batch stickied!

[brettster55]

I stopped a 3 day split and now just do wahtever and got better results from the variety. I obviously don't do bench followed by bench, but I change it up

[TrackStar1087]

I haven't lifted for a few years but have remained in relatively good shape.. before my long break here I was doing split routines working out 6 days a week(P/P/L/Off/P/P/L). Getting back into things here i am considering starting on a 3 day a week full body routine. Do you guys think this is the best route? 3 days a week just seems like nothing compared to what I used to do.

[maKINGwaffles]

Nice thread. Thanks for the sticky.

[chris6575]

Hello Vox and anyone else. I recently made a thread and wanted to copy most of it here asking anyone reading for advice. Because your topic basically hits what I am lost on, I felt like I needed to ask. Here goes :


I got back into Muscle and Fitness with a subscription, I have 3 months worth at my house. As with anything to do with fitness, each month I read and it feels like everything I know about weights and fitness contradict itself. From reading say a workout from the Rock and Mark Whalberg filming pain and gain, to Chris Hemsworth filming thor, to say pro bodybuilder Dorian Yates.

What I will tell you is I am 5 foot 6. Over the summer I weighed in at 220. I had shoulder surgery last year from a torn labrum. It's fine now, although sometimes doing presses I do burn out perhaps faster then years ago. It doesn't hurt and that's all I care about. Currently I am down to 205. I did some jail time, not that I am bragging. But came home at 180. The main difference for me is in there, I weight trained, I also jogged 7 days a week and played basketball.

Depending on my work schedule now, I may get an hour to exercise, vs jail I did on any day 5-6 hours. What I did over the summer was a for me very basic routine. Very similar to the all pros. I have been doing Monday, Wed, Friday and then the other 4 days, try for an hour of jogging. Be it 5 miles on the treadmill, or an hour before work.

My routine I try to make a full body. I start with either Squat or Deadlift depending on the week and my first 3 are compound movements. Example, Squat for legs, Bench for Chest, one arm or bent over row for back. Maybe 2 weeks later because I don't want to get stale. Start with Deadlift for back, then leg press for legs, flyes on chest.

Being those are the top 3. I will follow those up with shoulder presses, be it smith machine or flat barbell and superset those with upright rows or shrugs. Now shoulders are done. What is left is arms and many times I will do pull ups with any assisted machine followed by dips. They focus on your tri and bi but also I feel get some extra back and chest. At the end do crunches, sit ups etc. Calves I usually skip because my calves are huge beyond belief lol.

The thing is the more I read about 5x5 and say the Rock hitting his legs once a week. I am very lost. I only do this basic routine because it's something for now. I don't understand and please feel free to explain how people hit a bodypart once for the week. I couldn't see myself benching on Monday, then not again for 7 days. How would my chest grow and develop from just one day? Currently I am doing 1 warm-up set then 3 sets of 8-10 for each movement.

Now I understand that obviously if you are putting one day into one part, your doing 5-6 exercises, but again once for the week, I am lost. But then again I see the Rock in Pain and Gain and his size and well he's doing something right. Obviously he takes supplements I can't afford and I have read his diet, that's way beyond my budget right now.

If your asking my goal. Honestly to lose weight and maintain some size, but I am not trying for mass. You may ask why. Basically I can afford a tub of whey protein and I eat a protein bar from my supermarket after work outs. But my diet is limited because of how much I am making, my bills and honestly I am on food stamps watching my budget. Many times at work I pack 2 pb and j sandwiches with a banana. I try to eat the best I can with cereal or oatmeal, but my point is for me I know size requires many calories and protein that I don't have. I can't control that, so I can lose some weight and eat decent.

It's like today I was shaking my head, buying some yogurt, some oatmeal, a dozen of eggs for the house, and 7 bags of groceries and 100 dollars gone. I been cutting out junk food, but I cheat now and then I admit with a pop tart, but I been drinking sugar free Hawaiin Punch or instead of a coke, grab a coke zero.

But with jogging home from work sometimes or before and a steady program I know I can lose some pounds and maintain some size. I just the more I read and even here about advanced routines and splits and upper and lower body I am just lost. I mean I been weight training since I was 15. For high school we just did pure strength and I just ate lol. Never worried the way I do now. I have in the past done 4 day upper and lower body routines.

But as I age and I know hey I am not the biggest guy in the gym. I like being strong and I think I am for my size, but I know I will never Deadlift 800 pounds or squat 600. My frame doesn't have that ability. But if I can bench 250 in my life or Deadlift 400, I am fine with that. So I guess I want to lose some of this belly and I dunno just be in good shape for now. Once I get a better job and am able to afford better things like diet and some supplements, that's one thing, for now just trim up.

I dunno if I am writing this correctly, but any advice? It's like currently I am not losing progress in terms of what I can bench or leg press, but I am not getting better. I want my stomach to drop down more and be more lean and my arms decent size and my chest. But I think my frame being 5'6, even 205, I liked when I came home and I was 180. I still didn't have a 6 pack, but I felt great and looked like I was 25. Even now at 32 I have a baby face, but I want to get back to 175-180.

Any tips? Thank you for reading this also. I just can read endless articles, endless topics. But asking people helps a lot more then just reading yet another program. Every month in Muscle and Fitness it's 80 pages of a new technique and new program. My head hurts lol

[Giovanni1992]

one of the most interesting thread

[Giovanni1992]

Of course splits

[ladygray111]

i was actually looking for a post on split vs whole body. i used to be semi active after my first child. i mainly would do split. i was thin but not toned or anything. im pregnant with my second child and i am looking foward into working my ass off since ill be spending money on my self in cosmetic surgeries. im due in a couple of weeks and ive been trying to get more information on all this to get the most out of it. i have lose skin from my first pegnancy and now that im pregnant again my skin isnt tight how it was with my first. i have a baby bump but skin isnt tight around it. well anyway. i was wondering what would be more effective split or full body. thankyou for answering with your post. so from my understanding it will be better if i start off with full body then get into split once i start targeting muscles right? woudl it help to get tight again better than split? i was thinking for split do 3 days of lift seperate muscle group split and 3 days of cardio/core. do you think its a good split to accommodate my goals or full body maybe upper/lower split? im still small even though im dude in less than a month just have that skin problem and eventually build to my body.

[ladygray111]

thats great I mix both particularly full boy when cutting to ease stress on your joints (you will be lacking nutrients so they are more prone to injury)

Can u give me an idea how u mix both

[VoxExMachina]

i was actually looking for a post on split vs whole body. i used to be semi active after my first child. i mainly would do split. i was thin but not toned or anything. im pregnant with my second child and i am looking foward into working my ass off since ill be spending money on my self in cosmetic surgeries. im due in a couple of weeks and ive been trying to get more information on all this to get the most out of it. i have lose skin from my first pegnancy and now that im pregnant again my skin isnt tight how it was with my first. i have a baby bump but skin isnt tight around it. well anyway. i was wondering what would be more effective split or full body. thankyou for answering with your post. so from my understanding it will be better if i start off with full body then get into split once i start targeting muscles right? woudl it help to get tight again better than split? i was thinking for split do 3 days of lift seperate muscle group split and 3 days of cardio/core. do you think its a good split to accommodate my goals or full body maybe upper/lower split? im still small even though im dude in less than a month just have that skin problem and eventually build to my body.

Keep in mind that doing a full body routine vs. a split routine has nothing specifically to do with weight loss, and you cannot pick a magic routine that will spot-reduce fat or fix loose skin. What one routine vs. another will do for you is to enable you to build muscle more quickly and effectively, while allowing yourself proper recovery.

The point of the original post is that as a beginner, and being young as you are, a full body routine will allow you to hit muscles more often and still recover. Build more muscle, and you'll look better overall.

[Ecasx]

So essentially, full body workouts will focus less on each muscle group (with less exercises per muscle group per workout) but work the muscle more often, compared to split workouts? And this is more effective in gaining mass and strength in beginners?

I'm a 16 year old beginner and after lots of research I devised my own workout program where every day was allocated to a specific muscle group e.g. Monday would be Chest/Triceps. This would consist of 4 chest-specific exercises and 2 tricep exercises, so it was pretty high volume and intensity. This did fatigue my muscles a lot during the workout though and I'll admit that towards the latter stages of my workouts I lost intensity and some elements of proper form. Does this mean that, because I'm a beginner, I am not strong/experienced enough to hit my muscles with sufficient intensity and do sufficient damage when I concentrate on a single muscle group in a workout, even though the volume of exercises targeting that muscle group is high?

[Hank19]

I did splits for years - over a decade. During that time I gained mass and strength.
But in the past year I began to grow bored and my gains really plateaued.
Through some google searches I bumped into articles about this debate. Then I found Madcow 5x5.
Since then, I'm never going back. My gains went through the roof. In 8 weeks, I added 50lbs to my squat and 20lbs to my bench.
I've also seen more definition on my body.

Every body is different, but for me, full body is the way to go.

[Hank19]

So essentially, full body workouts will focus less on each muscle group (with less exercises per muscle group per workout) but work the muscle more often, compared to split workouts? And this is more effective in gaining mass and strength in beginners?

I'm a 16 year old beginner and after lots of research I devised my own workout program where every day was allocated to a specific muscle group e.g. Monday would be Chest/Triceps. This would consist of 4 chest-specific exercises and 2 tricep exercises, so it was pretty high volume and intensity. This did fatigue my muscles a lot during the workout though and I'll admit that towards the latter stages of my workouts I lost intensity and some elements of proper form. Does this mean that, because I'm a beginner, I am not strong/experienced enough to hit my muscles with sufficient intensity and do sufficient damage when I concentrate on a single muscle group in a workout, even though the volume of exercises targeting that muscle group is high?

Depends on the program.
But normally, full-body workouts focus heavily (and in some cases, exclusively) on compound movements.

I'm on Madcow and I don't do any arm workouts. No curls, extensions, nothing. And yet my arms have grown since going from splits where I did 12-15 sets for each bi's and triceps.
The only movements I perform are squats, bench, presses, deadlifts and row's. And my arms have grown.

If you're a beginner, give Stronglifts 5x5 a shot. Or if you're already too strong, graduate to Madcow.

You'll gain size and strength. And really, the workouts are so short (30 min max) that you can add in 3 to 4 sets for your bi's and tri's.

[Savyna]

Thanks Vox for this. Very informative and helpful when it comes to continuing to build my own workout routines. Hoping to continue to learn more

[Gindy321]

First person to reply now banned.

Lulz. Strong thread start.

hehe ty men

[WN86]

I chose full body to start off strength training as opposed to a split like I was doing for bodybuilding.

[phrog801]

Fullbody definitely had loads of strength gains from it,Tried bro splits in the past the progress was alot slower.

[gymratbum]

Full Body Routines vs. Splits

The question often arises, especially from beginners, about what type of routine to use. Your buddy told you to use a full body routine, but the muscle mags suggest a 5-day "bodybuilder" split. You don't want to start off on the wrong foot, but there is so much information out there that sorting through what to do can be difficult.

This is some of my opinion on the subject, and maybe it'll help a few people out.


Full Body Routines:

In my opinion, this is the place for a beginner to start. I have many years of lifting experience, and have pretty much always used some form of bodybuilding split routine. However, if I had it to do over again, I would have begun with a good full-body routine, built around the compound lifts, done 3 times per week. When you are a beginner you don't generally have the muscular strength to work intensely enough, or with enough volume, to require as much recovery time as someone who is stronger or more experienced. If you are a young beginner, on top of that, you have very good recovery abilities due to high hormone levels. So, because you are recovered relatively quickly after each workout, you want to stimulate each muscle group more often to induce strength and growth.

Another reason to start with a full body program is that this gives you the opportunity to learn and practice the basic lifts: squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, barbell rows, etc. Whether your goal is bodybuilding, strength athlete, sports, or just remaining fit, these really ought to form the basis of any routine. No matter what path you choose to "branch out" on later, these core lifts will serve you well.


2-Day Split Routines:

So the next question becomes: when should I think about split routines? In very simple terms, the answer is: when full body routines become too much. Usually, as you get stronger, it becomes very difficult to maintain enough energy to do squats, deadlifts, bench press, etc. all on the same day. You may also find that you want to add in a few isolation exercises to bring up your weak areas, or you may want to begin focusing more on each core lift. Another issue is recovery; as you get stronger, you are able to work out more intensely, and that means longer recovery times. So at that point, it makes sense to "split" things up by only doing a part of your previous full routine on any given day.

A logical place to make your first split is into an Upper / Lower type routine. This will have you doing your upper body work like bench press, rows, overhead pressing on 1 day, and your lower body work like squats on another day. Another way to go would be a "push/pull" type split where you do all your pulling exercises (rows, deads) on one day and your pushing exercises (squats, overhead press, bench) on another day. Exactly how you do it is up to you, but the point is to divide the workload per session. This will give you more time (and volume) per body part, and also give you a bit more recovery before you work that muscle again. Most people will typically cycle through a 2-day split like these twice per week. So instead of every muscle being stimulated 3 times per week with the full body, now it's twice per week with the 2-day split.


3+ Day Splits:

3, 4, 5 (or more!) day splits come in when you again feel the need to divide your workload to match your recovery abilities, or increase the amount of work you want to do on specific muscles or lifts. Generally, these type of splits are mostly bodybuilding related, but even strength athletes may chose to split so they can work on speed lifts one day, strength work another, etc.

At this point (speaking to bodybuilding) many lifters will only hit each muscle group once per week. This has the advantage of letting you really hammer a muscle group with a lot of weight and volume, and then give it plenty of time to recover while you're bringing the pain to the next group. Your full body effort is broken down into segments that are manageable from a workload, energy, and recovery standpoint.

If you are an "experienced" (older) lifter with decreased recovery abilities (we all ain't as young as we used to be), this type of split often is useful for staying healthy due to the increased recovery time per body part. The kids might not think it's important, but your tendons might.



There are so many variations of splits that I won't even attempt to detail all the possibilities. If you follow the advice in this post, by the time you need a multiple day split, you'll know your body, your goals, and have a pretty good idea of what you want to do.


Final Thoughts:

I believe it's a logical notion to start with a full body routine, and begin splitting only when you feel the need to increase your recovery or increase your volume. If you stick with the concept that you're trying to hit a muscle as often as you are able while still recovering adequately, and let that be your guide, you'll do okay.

Hopefully, this gives some food for thought to help you decide what type of routine you should use. Ultimately, however, it's worth saying that you can do fine with any well-designed program even if you begin with a split routine right from the beginning.



Repost from my thread in the Exercises Section...it's more applicable here.

Great info. Had to write on this to bookmark it folks. Calm down. Calm down.

[JPS93]

What would you suggest for a full body routine for a beginner? Can bench 120

[Cheesin]

As I progressed, I did away with super strict routines and went on to a simple alternation of frequency and volume.

I have 3 different rough routines:

1. Full body, 2 alternate days for variety, more-so than anything. But none-the-less, every body part is hit each day, which allows me to hit at a frequency of at least 3 times a week.

2. Push Pull, which let me hit at a frequency of 2 times a week. The benefit is that I don't have to be in the gym as often as a split routine. It's also a blend of full body + split.

3. Split, which let me hit 1 - 2 times a week, but with much more volume per body part.

I typically like to hit a body part at least twice a week, even if I'm doing a split. The inclusion of a split isn't because I think the muscle needs more time to rest; it's because I'm trading frequency for volume (if there's any benefit in that, I'm capitalizing on it).

Since I don't go strictly by the days of the week, it's quite simple for me to organize my workouts and alternate routines as I see fit. Usually, I'll switch after 1 cycle of a routine which is within the span of a traditional week, no longer. In each of my routines I use the same exercises to gauge strength (I log it), though with the split I add other exercises as well.

This may not be easy to remember for beginners, and it might not be optimal for them, but I'm somewhat advanced strength wise (235x16 on Incline bench was my most recent record). I've been lifting for so long that this loose routine is not complicated at all. The only rules are to: a, be careful not to hit same body parts two days in a row (not that I see it as necessarily bad, maybe just unnecessary) and 2, log the strength performance of at least one exercise for each body part (keep this one at the beginning of a workout).

The main benefits of this plan are that I get infinite variety, and I can organize my days off as I see fit as I'm not going by the traditional week schedule. I have an odd condition that hasn't been diagnosed so, occasionally I'll need to take more days off and switch to one of the three routines that allows me to be in the gym with more frequency but less time spent in gym.

[Matty8]

Upper body A
Chin ups 4x6-10
Dead lift 3x6-8
Bench press 3x6-8
Incline dumbbell press 3x6-8
Shoulder press 3x6-8
T bar 3x6-8
Barbell curl 4x10
Tricep extension 4x10

Lower body A
Squats 3x6-8
Leg press 3x8-10
Leg curl 3x10
Calf raise 4x15-20
Lunges 30 lunges
Leg extension 3x10
Abs

Upper body B
Bench press 3x6-8
Pec flys 3x10-12
Lat raise 3x10-12
Lat pull down 3x8-10
Dumbell rows 3x8-10
Shrugs 4x20
Rear delt 3x10
Bicep curl 4x10-12
Tricep dips 3x10

Lower body b
Calf raise 3x15-20
Leg press 3x8-10
Leg extension 3x10
Leg adductor 3x10
Leg abductor 3x10
Leg curl 3x10
Abs

What does anyone think of this, 4 day split? Just can't decide what to do, trying to gain mass.
Any help appreciated.

[Angelvoice]

split routine obviously

[nondrik]

I prefer splits. Every 6 weeks or so I switch it up and do a full body workout for a week.

[BulkingPhase101]

Personally I started off on a 3 day split as a beginner and still doing the 3 day split 6 months later and I am making a whole load of gains.

[Leonida87]

Been training dips, push ups, chin ups, pull ups for long time...When started gym i went for full body for 2-3 months, then on Upper Lower power-hypertrophy program...4 days, 2 for power, rest, then two for hypertrophy...and its all goood

[KJ1224]

Repped! Thanks for this great thread Vox! Very reassuring that I'm on the right track doing a Full Body Routine (currently on SS) as a beginner.