Do Squats really help upper body mass?!

[nickkkkkk408]

LOL go raid your mom's pantry you fat infant.

I'M full of broscience?

I take only ONE supplement.

I train fasted every morning.

I eat 2-3 meals per day (and my first meal is 4 hours after my workout)

and you think IM full of broscience?

Please, link me to a reviewed, profressional atricle that proves frequency > Volume... you stupid, stupid child.

you really need to grow up. you wonder why your not growing and why you weigh 160 pounds at 6 feet!! eat more ****in food and stop giving people bad advice. Im 6 inches shorter than you and weigh 10 pounds more! Think I'm fat? think again, sitting at 9-10% bf right now. You really don't know what your talking about. Doing 15 reps for squats is not a bad thing, some people respond better to high reps less weight, higher reps can help bring out the separation in the quads, and its good to go light every now and then confuse your muscles. think i don't know what I'm talking about? look at my stats and vvvv

[AdamWW]

Brb, Listening to you instead of Mr Olympia Phil Heath. And I'm not talking about the crap they spew for sales.

You will never look like Phil heath.

What do you think he weighed at your age?

Oh, and did you know he takes steroids? Shocker...

Also, I don't think Phil heath squats 3 times a week.

Nice try though.

[AdamWW]

you really need to grow up. you wonder why your not growing and why you weigh 160 pounds at 6 feet!! eat more ****in food and stop giving people bad advice. Im 6 inches shorter than you and weigh 10 pounds more! Think I'm fat? think again, sitting at 9-10% bf right now. You really don't know what your talking about. Doing 15 reps for squats is not a bad thing, some people respond better to high reps less weight, higher reps can help bring out the separation in the quads, and its good to go light every now and then confuse your muscles. think i don't know what I'm talking about? look at my stats and vvvv

I can read, thanks.

So, you're telling me you squat 15 reps on the regular?

I doubt it. Im betting you also do heavy squats with low reps.

And who says im not growing? I'm gaining ~1lb per week right now and increasing weight on lifts EVERY week.

I'm eating 3500+ calories per day.

Pretty sure im doing it right.

[Havu93]

Well core for sure, but upperbody... nah.

[nickkkkkk408]

I can read, thanks.

So, you're telling me you squat 15 reps on the regular?

I doubt it. Im betting you also do heavy squats with low reps.

And who says im not growing? I'm gaining ~1lb per week right now and increasing weight on lifts EVERY week.

I'm eating 3500+ calories per day.

Pretty sure im doing it right.

yes i do, first 2 sets are 15-20 reps at 135, next 3 sets 12 reps at 225, last 1-2 sets 8 reps at 315, and yes i go ass to the ground, no quarter squat pussy ****

[AdamWW]

yes i do, first 2 sets are 15-20 reps at 135, next 3 sets 12 reps at 225, last 1-2 sets 8 reps at 315, and yes i go ass to the ground, no quarter squat pussy ****

First of all, I use proper form and go about 10% past parallel on squats.

Second, you said you do 8 reps.. 8 on your heavy set.. NOT 15-20 on EVERY set like they were suggesting, which means you agree with my post and reps not needing to be that high.

Third.. calm down, junior.. it's just a forum.

[joelBrk]

Lifting stats/weight do not = knowledge.

I started at 6feet and 125lbs.

I'm 35lbs heavier at the same or less bodyfat.

Seriously, stop spewing bull**** around. There is no scientific proof of overtraining if you're squatting over 2 times a week, nor do i overtrain and i squat 4 times a week with light weights on mondays. So please gtfo the tmisc.

[SamTek]

You will never look like Phil heath.

What do you think he weighed at your age?

Oh, and did you know he takes steroids? Shocker...

Also, I don't think Phil heath squats 3 times a week.

Nice try though.

I will never look like Phil Heath? lolk, We'll see.

What do I think he weighed at my age? This is him at least 2-3 years older.

Did I know he took steroids? I guess I should start soo...OWAIT LALLL. Also, he started taking steroids in his 20s, well after he finished playing Basketball and started Bodybuilding.

What's this? An advanced trainee, specifically an IFBB Pro and Mr Olympia not doing high frequency? Good lord, it almost seems like less frequency (1x per week splits) is better for advanced trainees! WHAT A SURPRISE!

Nice try, you've failed on all counts in your arguements in this thread. I can't even begin to comprehend why you're still in here after being embarrassed so much.

[nickkkkkk408]

First of all, I use proper form and go about 10% past parallel on squats.

Second, you said you do 8 reps.. 8 on your heavy set.. NOT 15-20 on EVERY set like they were suggesting, which means you agree with my post and reps not needing to be that high.

Third.. calm down, junior.. it's just a forum.

i never once suggested you do 15+ reps every set read again. funny you call me junior cuz id make you my bitch in the gym

[AdamWW]

i never once suggested you do 15+ reps every set read again. funny you call me junior cuz id make you my bitch in the gym

The point was you are younger.. and i have no interest in being your bitch in any way shape or form, so thanks but no thanks.

My points are as follows:

- Doing HIGH reps (15-20reps) on squats is not NECESSARY and if you ALWAYS do 15-20 reps on every set, in addition to training legs 3 times per week, you are to overtrain. I never said you should NEVER do that.. I think all kinds of training have value, this includes machines, cables, high reps, low reps, 1-rep max, partial reps, negatives, etc. I simply mean you shouldn't train legs, 3 times per week, always doing 15-20 reps. I think there should be variation, and it's not NEEDED to train them 3 times per week.

- Saying that I don't know what i'm talking about because I weight 160lbs is completely ridiculous. Would you listen to anything a pro lifter told you simply because he was stronger than you? I hope not.. I have known HUGE guys, probably my height and 240lbs at maybe 7% BF who can lift INSANE amounts (back in college) who drank every night, smoked weed every night, etc. Am I to assume because they are bigger and stronger it was their drinking and smoking pot that got them there?

Just because someone is bigger or stronger, doesn't mean they are doing EVERYTHING they can to help themselves. Who is to say you wouldn't see even MORE benefit from only training twice unless you TRY it?

- If you train legs three times per week, how are you expecting to deadlift, bench, etc, on the other days? The central nervous system can only take so much strain before you are going to start effectiing your other lifting days. If you are always exhausted, how can you give 100%? BY ALL MEANS.. if you really can train 110%, every muscle group 3 times per week.. be my guest.. but I doubt it.

[nickkkkkk408]

The point was you are younger.. and i have no interest in being your bitch in any way shape or form, so thanks but no thanks.

My points are as follows:

- Doing HIGH reps (15-20reps) on squats is not NECESSARY and if you ALWAYS do 15-20 reps on every set, in addition to training legs 3 times per week, you are to overtrain. I never said you should NEVER do that.. I think all kinds of training have value, this includes machines, cables, high reps, low reps, 1-rep max, partial reps, negatives, etc. I simply mean you shouldn't train legs, 3 times per week, always doing 15-20 reps. I think there should be variation, and it's not NEEDED to train them 3 times per week.

- Saying that I don't know what i'm talking about because I weight 160lbs is completely ridiculous. Would you listen to anything a pro lifter told you simply because he was stronger than you? I hope not.. I have known HUGE guys, probably my height and 240lbs at maybe 7% BF who can lift INSANE amounts (back in college) who drank every night, smoked weed every night, etc. Am I to assume because they are bigger and stronger it was their drinking and smoking pot that got them there?

Just because someone is bigger or stronger, doesn't mean they are doing EVERYTHING they can to help themselves. Who is to say you wouldn't see even MORE benefit from only training twice unless you TRY it?

- If you train legs three times per week, how are you expecting to deadlift, bench, etc, on the other days? The central nervous system can only take so much strain before you are going to start effectiing your other lifting days. If you are always exhausted, how can you give 100%? BY ALL MEANS.. if you really can train 110%, every muscle group 3 times per week.. be my guest.. but I doubt it.

yes i know I'm younger, my point was even tho I'm younger id make you my bitch whether you liked it or not.

idk why I'm still arguing with this tool, he seems like he's pretty dead set on the fact that he knows EVERYTHING

[AdamWW]

yes i know I'm younger, my point was even tho I'm younger id make you my bitch whether you liked it or not.

idk why I'm still arguing with this tool, he seems like he's pretty dead set on the fact that he knows EVERYTHING

If this is your impression I strongly suggest increasing your reading comprehension somehow.

[joelBrk]

yes i know I'm younger, my point was even tho I'm younger id make you my bitch whether you liked it or not.

idk why I'm still arguing with this tool, he seems like he's pretty dead set on the fact that he knows EVERYTHING

Yeah, just ignore him.

[SamTek]

The point was you are younger.. and i have no interest in being your bitch in any way shape or form, so thanks but no thanks.

My points are as follows:

- Doing HIGH reps (15-20reps) on squats is not NECESSARY and if you ALWAYS do 15-20 reps on every set, in addition to training legs 3 times per week, you are to overtrain. I never said you should NEVER do that.. I think all kinds of training have value, this includes machines, cables, high reps, low reps, 1-rep max, partial reps, negatives, etc. I simply mean you shouldn't train legs, 3 times per week, always doing 15-20 reps. I think there should be variation, and it's not NEEDED to train them 3 times per week.

- Saying that I don't know what i'm talking about because I weight 160lbs is completely ridiculous. Would you listen to anything a pro lifter told you simply because he was stronger than you? I hope not.. I have known HUGE guys, probably my height and 240lbs at maybe 7% BF who can lift INSANE amounts (back in college) who drank every night, smoked weed every night, etc. Am I to assume because they are bigger and stronger it was their drinking and smoking pot that got them there?

Just because someone is bigger or stronger, doesn't mean they are doing EVERYTHING they can to help themselves. Who is to say you wouldn't see even MORE benefit from only training twice unless you TRY it?

- If you train legs three times per week, how are you expecting to deadlift, bench, etc, on the other days? The central nervous system can only take so much strain before you are going to start effectiing your other lifting days. If you are always exhausted, how can you give 100%? BY ALL MEANS.. if you really can train 110%, every muscle group 3 times per week.. be my guest.. but I doubt it.

I doubt those guys would tell you drinking and smoking pot is the reason for their success. And if they did, I'd assume one would have enough logic as to not take it seriously. You're going wayyyy off topic here now. Those guys obviously did something to make them successful, regardless of their unhealthy habits, they were better than you for a reason and its your loss if you dont listen to them.

You seem to have no idea what overtraining is. The ability to become overtrained is greatly exaggerated. No one in this section apart from an advanced few have the ability to become overtrained. Any trainee following a 3x a week split will definitely not become overtrained. It simply is HIGHLY unlikely with the weight they are moving.

My advice to you is this; Worry less about overtraining and more about lifting. You're impeding your own progress.

[Zunehmer]

Thanks.

However, considering that article pertains to elderly individuals (aged 74+), it doesn't seem 100% apples-to-apples. In fact one kind of wonders WHY it was designed that way.

No problem. Please remember this is 1 study out of a lot that came out recently. These are done in younger individuals with the same conclusion. Some are also comparing whey to milk and milk turns out to be better, so theres probably no supplement company funding the studies. The study I posted is what you usually will find in a lot more studies with average trainees, not some exception.

So wheres your evidence to back up your claims? What you do is working (if you gained 35 lbs of muscle) but probably you would've been even better off with post / preworkout shake and higher frequency.

Thing is lots of these post / preworkout shakes have the caveat that their done in fasted subjects so its not clear how to apply it to the normal guy that eats before and after workout. However you seem to workout in a fasted state so you would benefit a lot from incorporating this.

[AdamWW]

Yeah, just ignore him.

who asked you?

[Xuaxace]

- If you train legs three times per week, how are you expecting to deadlift, bench, etc, on the other days? The central nervous system can only take so much strain before you are going to start effectiing your other lifting days. If you are always exhausted, how can you give 100%? BY ALL MEANS.. if you really can train 110%, every muscle group 3 times per week.. be my guest.. but I doubt it.

Well, intermediate programs like madcows makes you do just that, 3x squat (different 1rm% and volume), benchx2, rowx2 deadlift x1, it is a dual factor program, not an all balls out everyday program. You also get to deload after x amount of time.

I think you are miss interpretating what people here mean by squating 3x a week.


By the way, with your numbers you need to do just that, add frequency. You don't move enough weight to worry about overtraining and you definitely can benefit from squating more, making your body adapt to more load, making your cns learn to handle more weight, also it takes reps to dial down form. When I squat once a week, by the time the week has gone, by form has gone down the drain "de-training", I absolutely need more frequency to keep the form fresh and keep the form improvements going. I think you are slightly too cough up in what "pro bodybuilders" and think that splits are the only way to train.

[AdamWW]

No problem. Please remember this is 1 study out of a lot that came out recently. These are done in younger individuals with the same conclusion. Some are also comparing whey to milk and milk turns out to be better, so theres probably no supplement company funding the studies. The study I posted is what you usually will find in a lot more studies with average trainees, not some exception.

So wheres your evidence to back up your claims? What you do is working (if you gained 35 lbs of muscle) but maybe you would've been even better off with post / preworkout shake and higher frequency.

Thing is lots of these post / preworkout shakes have the caveat that their done in fasted subjects so its not clear how to apply it to the normal guy that eats before and after workout. However you seem to workout in a fasted state so you would benefit a lot from incorporating this.

Hard to say.. i'm kind of a unique case.

I have bad acid reflux so I have to wait a while between meals or I get nauseous.

I'd be interested in seeing those studies with younger persons.

I don't have "proof" of any claim except that their is no proof to the contrary other than anecdotal evidence to support the contrary. Mainly what im saying is there isn't a benefit, over a long period of time, to squatting 3 times a week vs two. Again, this is just anecdotal, but I personally have never seen a benefit.

So really, I have no proof, but neither does anyone else. However, when I ask people how often they squat and they say "3 times a week and 15-20 reps", I wonder WHY they are doing that because there is no apparent NEED for that kind of routine.

[Xuaxace]

So really, I have no proof, but neither does anyone else. However, when I ask people how often they squat and they say "3 times a week and 15-20 reps", I wonder WHY they are doing that because there is no apparent NEED for that kind of routine.

Honestly, who has ever said they squat 3 times a week 15-20 reps, I have never heard such thing and I wonder around the forums quite a lot. People that train that much will in most cases be in a strength program in low rep ranges.

[AdamWW]

Well, intermediate programs like madcows makes you do just that, 3x squat (different 1rm% and volume), benchx2, rowx2 deadlift x1, it is a dual factor program, not an all balls out everyday program. You also get to deload after x amount of time.

I think you are miss interpretating what people here mean by squating 3x a week.


By the way, with your numbers you need to do just that, add frequency. You don't move enough weight to worry about overtraining and you definitely can benefit from squating more, making your body adapt to more load, making your cns learn to handle more weight, also it takes reps to dial down form. When I squat once a week, by the time the week has gone, by form has gone down the drain "de-training", I absolutely need more frequency to keep the form fresh and keep the form improvements going. I think you are slightly too cough up in what "pro bodybuilders" and think that splits are the only way to train.

Sir, weight is all relative. 300lbs to me is going to be heavier than someone who is much stronger. Some people can overtrain at half the weight of another person.

A person who has a 1 rep bench max of 135lbs (hypothetical) can easily overtrain doing chest 3 times per week trying to lift 125lbs for 4 reps and 5 sets whereas if someone who has a 1 rep bench max of 300lbs were to only lift that amount, they wouldn't basically never overtrain.

Overtraining happens at different levels for EACH person.

[AdamWW]

im checking out.. i have a 2 hour conference meeting.

[Xuaxace]

Sir, weight is all relative. 300lbs to me is going to be heavier than someone who is much stronger. Some people can overtrain at half the weight of another person.

A person who has a 1 rep bench max of 135lbs (hypothetical) can easily overtrain doing chest 3 times per week trying to lift 125lbs for 4 reps and 5 sets whereas if someone who has a 1 rep bench max of 300lbs were to only lift that amount, they wouldn't basically never overtrain.

Overtraining happens at different levels for EACH person.

You are missing something, at your level you don't have the level to exert too much impact to your body, in terms of cns overloading, or efficient muscle recruitment. This is the same reason why a newbie can do its 5 rep max all day long, but a powerlifter would be crawling on the floor after only 1 set of 5rm squats. The more recruitment the more damage, both mentally and physically. I hardly doubt you are doing much damage at 150lb, this is why newbie probrams get away with so much squating, if that makes sense.


By the way, programs like 5x5 madcows are tailored around an individuals true MAXES, not someone elses.

[fafaedras]

2-3 times a week? Seriously, I can hardly walk 4 days after my leg day, then theres soreness for next 2 days. Can anyone prove why 2-3 times would be better?

[spiderman997]

2-3 times a week? Seriously, I can hardly walk 4 days after my leg day, then theres soreness for next 2 days. Can anyone prove why 2-3 times would be better?

Frequency > volume
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287373

[fafaedras]

Frequency > volume
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287373

I lift similarly : 60% of 1RM and about 3-4 sets.
But the problem is - recovery.
My legs bend easily, hardly walk down stairs, hardly walk at all for 4 days after. What should I do? Still lift? But lift sh*tty?

[spiderman997]

I lift similarly : 60% of 1RM and about 3-4 sets.
But the problem is - recovery.
My legs bend easily, hardly walk down stairs, hardly walk at all for 4 days after. What should I do? Still lift? But lift sh*tty?

DOMS decreases significantly with a higher frequency, lower volume routine. Most on this forum who do high frequency routines NEVER get DOMS.

[SamTek]

DOMS decreases significantly with a higher frequency, lower volume routine. Most on this forum who do high frequency routines NEVER get DOMS.

This is true. After my first few months of training, I never got DOMS again.

[fafaedras]

DOMS decreases significantly with a higher frequency, lower volume routine. Most on this forum who do high frequency routines NEVER get DOMS.

so the first few times I should just fight through the weakness and lift still?

[Icepray]

so the first few times I should just fight through the weakness and lift still?

Yeah, you might be a bit stiff, but stick with it, I'm on week 3 of billstars 5x5, I came off something similar to PHAT so I didn't have too much soreness except for the legs, your body adapts, it's pretty hard to overtrain really

[fafaedras]

Ok, i'll try it out. thanks