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  1. #1
    Registered User clank72's Avatar
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    Can't lose any weight at 1800 - 2500 cal/day (Endomorph)

    It's time to cut. I'm 6'2 230lbs. 18 - 19%. It's hard as hell for me to lose weight unless I go on a starvation diet and dip into the 1500's for 4 days a week. Then I have no problems. But I'm always hungry.

    For all you gifted folks that can eat 2500 a day and lose weight, How much of that is carbs?

    I can't lose crap with a 1800 - 2500 zig zag diet (40-40-20). I also burn my butt in the gym. My carbs vary from 130 to 150 per day. Been doing this experiment for almost a month and a half. I'm getting off it.

    Should I cut the carbs below 100 or cut the calories?
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  2. #2
    Registered User Blackjack68's Avatar
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    Insulin resistant? Constant hunger and tired after meals?

    Try a keto diet. If nothing else it will drastically reduce the hunger problem, allowing you the willpower boost to keep the cal intake very low. And if you do have blood sugar issues, keto will put you back on track with it.
    Part of my transformation here - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149287533
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  3. #3
    Registered User clank72's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blackjack68 View Post
    Insulin resistant? Constant hunger and tired after meals?

    Try a keto diet. If nothing else it will drastically reduce the hunger problem, allowing you the willpower boost to keep the cal intake very low. And if you do have blood sugar issues, keto will put you back on track with it.
    Yes! I need to watch fast carbs. Protein bars make me tired. Any sugar puts me to sleep. Complex carbs and good balanced meals I do very well.

    Thanks for your advice on the Keto diet. I will look into it.
    Last edited by clank72; 11-08-2011 at 12:25 AM.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Blackjack68's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clank72 View Post
    Yes! I need to watch fast carbs. Protein bars make me tired. Any sugar puts me to sleep. Complex carbs and good balanced meals I do very well.
    Probably "pre-diabetic" friend. If not keto, at least get the carbs number down considerably, you'll be much happier guaranteed.
    Part of my transformation here - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149287533
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  5. #5
    Audaces fortuna iuvat BillReilly's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clank72 View Post
    It's time to cut. I'm 6'2 230lbs. 18 - 19%. It's hard as hell for me to lose weight unless I go on a starvation diet and dip into the 1500's for 4 days a week. Then I have no problems. But I'm always hungry.

    For all you gifted folks that can eat 2500 a day and lose weight, How much of that is carbs?

    I can't lose crap with a 1800 - 2500 zig zag diet (40-40-20). I also burn my butt in the gym. My carbs vary from 130 to 150 per day. Been doing this experiment for almost a month and a half. I'm getting off it.

    Should I cut the carbs below 100 or cut the calories?
    I'm thinking this zig-zag diet business is an issue. Try setting a 2,000 calorie target a day for a month and see what happens. There's two reasons, one psychological and one physiological. The first one is that you are probably lying to yourself. You say you're hitting the 1800 level for four days, but probably a little higher. On those "cheat" days you are blowing past the 2500 barrier. It does not take much self-delusion before you're at 2300-2500 calories per day on average. Try a diet with a daily target of 2,000, relying on foods like carrots, cucumber and celery as snacks to fill the time between meals. They have few calories and are great at taking the edge off hunger.

    The second part is the fact your body was built to handle sever scarcity. Everything about us is wired to consume as much as possible whenever possible and conserve fat for lean times. Jerking your intake around sends the wrong signals to the body. Steady caloric intake over a long period of time conditions the body to that level of intake.

    I started out with your specs, but about ten pounds heavier. I've kept intake at 2,000 calories or less every day with very few exceptions. My daily average is 1935 at this point. I've dropped 1.5 pounds per week. I ever took a couple weeks off when I was on vacation. During that period, I ate and drank whatever was in front of me.
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  6. #6
    Master Yourself First NYkarate's Avatar
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    I would be more concerned with losing fat than weight. Are you lifting? Are you looking at your bodyfat levels or just your weight?
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  7. #7
    Registered User paqua17's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clank72 View Post
    I'm always hungry.
    We can't provide advice unless you tell us what you eat on a daily basis. Are you eating/drinking foods that are calorie dense (ex. nuts, juice)? Do you eat a lot of vegetables (great source of calories/g)?

    Originally Posted by clank72 View Post
    For all you gifted folks that can eat 2500 a day and lose weight, How much of that is carbs?
    It's not a matter of being gifted or not. It's a matter of knowing how many calories you need to consume in a day to maintain your current weight and drop your calories below this for an extended period. The key is exactly what you're stuck in for many people... finding the mix of foods that allow you to stay full throughout the day so your mind doesn't have you cheat.

    If you feel that 2,500 is your target cut level of calories the following would be an approx breakdown of your macros:
    P = 230g (920 calories)
    F = 115g (1,035 calories)
    C = 136g (535 calories)

    Believe it or not there are people out there at your size that have to eat fewer than 2,500 calories/day to lose weight AND there are also some that at your size can eat more than 2,500 calories/day to lose weight.

    BTW - Where do you arrive at your cut calories of 1,800 - 2,500 per day?
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  8. #8
    Registered User paqua17's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blackjack68 View Post
    Probably "pre-diabetic" friend. If not keto, at least get the carbs number down considerably, you'll be much happier guaranteed.
    Don't scare people with your e-diagnosis. You do realize why simple carbs can make pretty much every single person in this world (including those of us that are not diabetic/pre-diabetic) more tired than complex carbs?

    Also, it is mental struggle to a large degree to maintain a caloric deficit.
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  9. #9
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    Endo.....'nuff said. We have to work twice as hard and eat half as much to look decent. However when the big famine hits we will still be standing at the end.
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  10. #10
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    not much to go on here but here are a couple reasons why most people say they cant lose weight.

    1- they are not eating enough to support their activity. If you are working out 6- 7 days per week then back off of all of that until you get the food part down. then ad in workouts.

    2- the time between meals is too long.

    the simple remedies for this are to figure out what you want to eat for 5-6 meals per day. Then eat a more about every 3 hours. Limit workouts to 2-3 this week to get your diet straight first.
    "To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives. Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an average man. We make ourselves into one or the other."-- Carlos Castaneda
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  11. #11
    Bringin the Synergy Back xR1pp3Rx's Avatar
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    i recomend you have a read on Lyle Mcdonalds book UD2.0 wich will teach you every thing you need to know about Keto.. you dont even have to pay for it you can read it on his website. this is the fastes way for endos to lose fat ... hands down. you follow his recomendation for a CKD then transition into a regular style diet after you have reached your goal.
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  12. #12
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Post a pic..... At 230 and 18% bf you carry about 10 more lbs of lean mass then I do. Your cals are waaaaay low. My maintenance is about 2800 and I do NO cardio and only workout 3 days per week for an hour or so.

    Either 1) you have slowed your metabolism down from excessive dieting, or 2) you are not tracking as well as you thought.

    If it is 1)Take a break and bump up cals 200 for two weeks then another 200 for two weeks, till you get in the 2600-2800 range... then stay there a few weeks. Then go back to a deficit.

    If it is 2)....stop lying to yourself or guessing....weigh and measure EVERYTHING you eat....and most important....make sure the entries you are using from the logging database are accurate! I often have to search through 4or 5 different entries to find correct ones when I add a new food....and even then sometimes I have to make a custom one beacsue I cant find an accurate one.
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  13. #13
    Audaces fortuna iuvat BillReilly's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    .make sure the entries you are using from the logging database are accurate! I often have to search through 4or 5 different entries to find correct ones when I add a new food....and even then sometimes I have to make a custom one beacsue I cant find an accurate one.
    This.

    I've found the free sites to be all over the map on many basic foods. I suspect some of them publish lower numbers knowing fatties would like being lied to about their diets.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    i recomend you have a read on Lyle Mcdonalds book UD2.0 wich will teach you every thing you need to know about Keto.. you dont even have to pay for it you can read it on his website. this is the fastes way for endos to lose fat ... hands down. you follow his recomendation for a CKD then transition into a regular style diet after you have reached your goal.
    Found the website and articles and such but can't find the book, got a link?
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by clank72 View Post
    It's time to cut. I'm 6'2 230lbs. 18 - 19%. It's hard as hell for me to lose weight unless I go on a starvation diet and dip into the 1500's for 4 days a week. Then I have no problems. But I'm always hungry.

    For all you gifted folks that can eat 2500 a day and lose weight, How much of that is carbs?

    I can't lose crap with a 1800 - 2500 zig zag diet (40-40-20). I also burn my butt in the gym. My carbs vary from 130 to 150 per day. Been doing this experiment for almost a month and a half. I'm getting off it.

    Should I cut the carbs below 100 or cut the calories?
    Rule #1!!! for verified endos used to be excessive(1.5-2 hours) cardio. Is that you?
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  16. #16
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Either 1) you have slowed your metabolism down from excessive dieting, or 2) you are not tracking as well as you thought.
    ^^^^This.

    The only other expalanation for your situation is a possible medical issue (not very likely).
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  17. #17
    Registered User clank72's Avatar
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    Not sure really what to say. Everyone is an expert, right?

    I highly doubt I have "destroyed" my metabolism and I think that is well overused on this forum. "No weight loss? Your motab is damaged!" You guys serious? I've been this way forever. I gain muscle easy and gain fat easy as hell. Everyone is different. I am a class A Endomorph. I can tell you right now because I know my body, eating MORE will result in MAINTENANCE, or more water and some possible fat gains no matter which way you put it. Even with a 5 day exercise plan. From history, I'm actually an overeater, not a chronic low calorie dieter.

    Food ::

    Half cup oats
    Egg whites
    Smart Chicken Sausage
    Chicken breasts
    MRM Egg white protein (Sensitive to dairy)
    Flax Oil
    Olive oil
    Almond butter
    LOW carb bread
    96% Lean ground beef.
    Yams
    Broccoli
    Cauliflower
    Tons of salad, spring greens with olive oil, salt.
    Roasted Chicken breast at Subway when I'm out.
    Clif Builder Bars on the go.
    Brown rice
    Multivitamin
    Glutamine for recovery.

    Friday's I like a 1/2 lb. burger and french fries and a pepsi or coke. Followed by a cookie.
    I log and weigh everything with "Perfect Diet Tracker" for the Mac.

    Weight training ::

    8-12 rep range (except legs).
    3-4 sets per body part.
    Always go to failure (except legs).
    1 hour cardio twice or three times a week (used to be one hour a day but was exhausting).
    I have strength gains weekly under 2500 calories.
    I feel fantastic everyday!
    I feel strong as heck!
    But I want to lose this fat and be lean.



    Before 4 months ago I was an "eater" and ate well over 2500 daily with no exercise. I slowly creeped up to 255lbs being very unhappy. This has got me back into getting in shape. Even with a 1000 cal daily deficit it's hard to meet a 2lbs a week loss. It usually comes out to be 1 or 1.5. with 1 hour of cardio a DAY. I did this for 3 months and lost about 20lbs. My BF has went down 4% and I have a lot more definition. I'm happy with that progress, but you have hungry days in the process which suck. If I can only lose 1.5 a week on this diet, then how is eating 2000 to 2500 a day going to make me lose more weight? I've been stuck at 230lbs for the last 2 months. Eating more is NOT the solution, I'm telling you right now.

    Blackjack68, has caught my attention with Keto. I have tried days with low carbs in the past and the weight flew off quickly, but I didn't have a solid plan so I went back to "normal" eating. I've never been on a low carb diet for a long period of time, this might be something to consider.
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  18. #18
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    One more question; what brand of food scale are you using to weigh your portions with?
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    One more question; what brand of food scale are you using to weigh your portions with?
    Only the best :-)

    Cuisinart KML-KO3B Precision Chef Bowl Electronic Kitchen Scale
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  20. #20
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    If you're actually weighing all your portions, and are tracking everything you eat, and you haven't been eating at a deficit for an excessive period of time, and you have no medical issues, I have no other explanation as to why you've stalled. Apparently you're physiology is different from everyone else's.

    But then, I'm no expert.

    Good luck in meeting all your fitness goals in 2011.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    If you're actually weighing all your portions, and are tracking everything you eat, and you haven't been eating at a deficit for an excessive period of time, and you have no medical issues, I have no other explanation as to why you've stalled. Apparently you're physiology is different from everyone else's.

    But then, I'm no expert.

    Good luck in meeting all your fitness goals in 2011.
    I rarely disagree with with you but I posted this in all seriousness.

    Originally Posted by OTH51 View Post
    Endo.....'nuff said. We have to work twice as hard and eat half as much to look decent. However when the big famine hits we will still be standing at the end.
    I'm in this boat and I need to eat well under 2000 calories a day to lose weight. It isn't pleasant as the OP stated but eating ~1500 calories a day is what will do the trick for him.
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  22. #22
    Audaces fortuna iuvat BillReilly's Avatar
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    OP, I think cutting carbs is a good place to start. Be careful with going overboard. The keto freaks will tell you otherwise, but you need complex carbs in the diet. Just get the numbers down below you protein intake. See how that works for a month.

    I go back to the maintenance of a consistent daily intake. It is bad juju to be bouncing all over the place with your intake. Cap it at 2000 a day every day.
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  23. #23
    Squat onslaught hammerfelt's Avatar
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    I also burn my butt in the gym.
    What exactly is your workout?
    Dirt is my Path - Steel is my Barbell: log - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=154931833

    300/195/277.5
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  24. #24
    Registered User clank72's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BillReilly View Post
    OP, I think cutting carbs is a good place to start. Be careful with going overboard. The keto freaks will tell you otherwise, but you need complex carbs in the diet. Just get the numbers down below you protein intake. See how that works for a month.

    I go back to the maintenance of a consistent daily intake. It is bad juju to be bouncing all over the place with your intake. Cap it at 2000 a day every day.
    The 2000 cap sounds promising. I herd your body gets used to the same calories everyday so it can adjust for a weight loss plateau. Is this true? Guess I'll find out.

    As for the carbs I've been thinking about cutting my grams each week. So lets say 80 carbs/day for a week, then see how that goes, then lower it if needed. Of course making up with fat and protein. The keto plan sounds scary at first. Whole different mind set then what I've been taught. Reading that book on it now.
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  25. #25
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    Originally Posted by hammerfelt View Post
    What exactly is your workout?
    I mostly mean, I give it 110% and push myself.

    2 body parts a day
    8-12 rep range (except legs).
    3-4 sets per body part.
    Always go to failure (except legs).

    1 hour cardio twice or three times a week (used to be one hour a day but was exhausting).
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  26. #26
    Audaces fortuna iuvat BillReilly's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clank72 View Post
    The 2000 cap sounds promising. I herd your body gets used to the same calories everyday so it can adjust for a weight loss plateau. Is this true? Guess I'll find out.
    I've been doing the 2,000 a day approach. I'm a well marbled guy and weight loss is slow. I'll get stuck at one weight for a few weeks, then blammo, a big drop off. The slow and steady approach works for two reasons. One your body is going to adjust to the caloric intake. Swinging up and down sends signals that food is not always plentiful. Most important is your appetite adjusts. Being hungry sucks. I do six small meals a day and never get hungry.
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  27. #27
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    Yea, starting a keto diet will lose weight quick at first, because losing 1 lb of carb (glycogen) will also lose 3 lbs of water, and that's before you burn any fat.

    90% chance either the diet or the exercise isn't as stated. Personally, I'd go the other way. Increase fruits and veggies to feel full, and cut down the oils. Just 1 tablespoon is 120 calories, and I'll bet 2 or 3 are going on your salad. On Friday have a 1/4 lb burger (the mayo and cheese alone are another 300 cals) , only eat 1/2 the fries, make sure the soda is a small and don't refill it.
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  28. #28
    Registered User Blackjack68's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paqua17 View Post
    Don't scare people with your e-diagnosis. You do realize why simple carbs can make pretty much every single person in this world (including those of us that are not diabetic/pre-diabetic) more tired than complex carbs?
    Not trying scare tactics friend. He's 38 yrs old, endomorph shaped, and has issues with carbs. I'd give 10 to 1 odds that if he checks with his doctor, he'll be diagnosed as pre-diabetic or type 2 diabetic. I didn't say he "was", I suggested it's "likely". He should probably check with his doctor.

    Not sure why that would make you angry at me.
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  29. #29
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    First, if you suspect a medical issue, have that checked out first.

    OK....now to this idea that you are an "extreme endo" b.s.. Listen....while there are differences in body types the similarities are much greater then the differences.....and the differences are not as great when viewing the overall picture.

    Simple facts here..and laws of thermodynamics are not broken just cause you are an "extreme endo". It really is about calories in can calories out in the end.... (not talking about contest dieting where you try to hit 4-5%)

    I hold to my statement with the one addition Ironwill made.

    1) You have slowed your metabolism from extended dieting. (yes this can happen....studies have shown as much as 30%)

    2) You are consuming more then you think in total calories


    or as IW added...

    3) You have a medical issue...and I agree with IW....this is fairly unlikely...although possible.



    In closing....you did not like to hear it...but time and time again this has shown to be the case, many people come on here saying they are different, their genetics....what ever....always an excuse.

    Actually you are correct.... You are a unique individual....just like every one of the SEVEN BILLION other humans on this planet. (I hope you recognize the irony in that statement...it was intended to illustrate how silly people are sometimes in their thoughts if individuality)

    Being an "endo" does not mean a 230lb muscular man can live on the calories of a pre-teen girl.....there is something else at play.
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  30. #30
    Kicking sarcopenia's azz ljimd's Avatar
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    OP,not here to nit pick your diet or training. That's for you to do, and most of the posters here are trying to be helpful with brainstorming your issues. So I will tell you 6 things I try to keep in mind. I hope they help.


    I will stall or fail to make progress if I:

    1. underestimate the amount of body fat I carry (like most guys I'm off by 50%)

    2. never re-examine my maintenance macros and make adjustments up/down according to goals

    3. overestimate the amount of intensity and effort in the gym

    4. find any excuse possible to explain my failure (body type, metabolism, no time... blah blah)

    5. expect over nite success (I've been at this for weeks and ...........)

    6. watch the scale more than the mirror


    Good luck to you.
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