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  1. #781
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder FATHER FLEX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heracles26 View Post
    go for 600 already, you've got it in you!!
    Think so
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  2. #782
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  3. #783
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder FATHER FLEX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JRemix View Post
    Would you say I'm a beginner intermediate in terms of training experience? Is beginner based on amount of muscle youve gained/is the beginner phase something that lasts a year? That's the part I'm confused on. I know an intermediate (middle level) is someone who has at least gained 20+lbs of muscle. I'm 127lbs at 5"5 and I think my genetic limit is something like 170lbs at 10%.

    Stats: 127lbs/5"5/13% body fat/early 20s. By beginner I mean that I've not gained the muscle to get out of the honey moon phase (the beginner YEAR where you can gain 20lb of muscle, not even close to gaining that):haven't lifted for a year consistently or bulked for more than 3 months (in 2011, now into my 2nd bulking month since returning from a long layoff from 2011). I have lifted for 7 months in a row before (4 dieting/3 bulking) in 2011. In my avatar (from 2011) I was 132lbs at 10-11%.

    I just watched one of your January Q&A videos and you say the beginner phase (not year in terms of muscular potential) of linear gains usually lasts 3-4 months and most do 5x5 programs. I think based on my lifting experience/strength I'm past that stage of learning to lift with proper form....but I have not gained even close to the muscle mass needed to be considered a real intermediate.

    Some of my current best lifts: 285x7 deadlift 3 sets, DB flat bench 75lbx6 2 sets, DB row 85x6/80x9, military press standing 100lb BBx8 2 sets, 35lb DB curlx7 2 sets.

    Should I do the "beginner intermediate 3 day full body" program you outline in the Q&A series? It seems appropriate for where I am at. The upper/lower one as you said is for an "intermediate-intermediate" (they've gone from 160 to 180-185). I think (correct me if I am wrong) that I am past the 3 month newbie adaptation phase that requires someone do a 5x5 program but I am still a beginner in terms of muscular development/how far I am from my genetic ceiling.

    Should I only be lifting 3x a week until I add another 15lb+ of muscle? If the beginner intermediate routine you made isn't right for me what would you recommend I do and for how long?

    I appreciate the help Berto, I do want to make sure that i choose a routine that is optimal for my current phase of development.
    I think you are an intermediate bro, to put it bluntly if you look weight trained you are not a beginner. I would say that no...20lbs rule doesn't apply to you because you are 130ish lbs...I think you are on the right track with your training
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  4. #784
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  5. #785
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    405 x 21
    You trying to be the next doug miller B?

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  6. #786
    Registered User JRemix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FATHER FLEX View Post
    I think you are an intermediate bro, to put it bluntly if you look weight trained you are not a beginner. I would say that no...20lbs rule doesn't apply to you because you are 130ish lbs...I think you are on the right track with your training
    You cleared up so many of my questions in a single paragraph, thank you.

    Which routine do you feel is more appropriate for me: your four-five day upper/lower split for mid-level intermediates or your 3 day full body beginning intermediate split? I feel as if I am a beginning intermediate.

    I appreciate the help.
    Last edited by JRemix; 02-13-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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  7. #787
    Banned The Solution's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JRemix View Post
    You cleared up so many of my questions in a single paragraph, thank you.

    Which routine do you feel is more appropriate for me: your four-five day upper/lower split for mid-level intermediates or your 3 day full body beginning intermediate split? I feel as if I am a beginning intermediate.

    One last question, since I'm intermediate should I still try to gain 3lb a month on my bulk? I remember you saying in your last reply that a 3lb a month gain for a non-total beginner equals to perma bulk mode (is 2lb a month a better idea). Being only 128lbs can I still gain 1.7-2lb of muscle a month now (since you can gain up to 2lb of muscle a month your first year of training)?

    I appreciate the help.
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  8. #788
    Registered User JRemix's Avatar
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    Thanks. I read the articles (Berto recommends 1-2lb a month for intermediates) but If a first year lifter (based on the muscular potential scale from bodyrecomposition.com/in the levels of development article) can gain up to 2lb of muscle a month, wouldn't some extra fat be needed to add those 2lbs?

    I had already read the first article (just the beginner section though, just re read it) and the other two had a good take home message of slow and steady wins the race. There's also the fact that more fat gain now means more dieting later.

    I will watch the video series.
    Last edited by JRemix; 02-13-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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  9. #789
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    Too much overthinking, and not enough time spent lifting, eating, resting, and sleeping ^^^ Just being real. Trying to pinpoint if you gain 2 or 2.2 or 2.5 or 1.5 pounds a month and if you make good success is great and all, but why not use the mirror, your gym performance, and your lifts/energy/mood as key indicators of your progress. Berto cant read your body unlike yourself which you have to learn through trial and error. We are all different.

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  10. #790
    Registered User JRemix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Too much overthinking, and not enough time spent lifting, eating, resting, and sleeping ^^^ Just being real. Trying to pinpoint if you gain 2 or 2.2 or 2.5 or 1.5 pounds a month and if you make good success is great and all, but why not use the mirror, your gym performance, and your lifts/energy/mood as key indicators of your progress. Berto cant read your body unlike yourself which you have to learn through trial and error. We are all different.

    other good reads:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html
    Yeah you are right, I just remembered that Berto already told me that month to month you'll gain diff amounts of weight and it's all about adjusting etc and results over time (since gaining phases are 6 months+). In that case small differences of 0.5lb a month aren't that big of a deal. At least I know that I should not be gaining 3lbs a month.

    I have one question left from my above post (the one of whether 3dmjs 3 day full body or their upper/lower split would be best for me)...but I have a feeling Berto implied that 3 day full body is ideal for now since I discussed that in my post (and I said upper/lower prob isn't right just yet).
    Last edited by JRemix; 02-13-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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  11. #791
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    but why not use the mirror, your gym performance, and your lifts/energy/mood as key indicators of your progress.
    Originally Posted by JRemix View Post
    Y
    I have one question left from my above post (you helped me answer my other questions in a second/through the links): the one of which intermediate routine would be best for me (3dmj's 3 day full body vs their 4-5 day upper/lower).
    Already answered above....
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  12. #792
    Registered User JRemix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Already answered above....
    True that. I thought one would be better than the other just based on what type of intermediate I was. I don't know which body parts grow easily for me so the full body one is prob best for now. I'll run with it for a bit and see how it goes.
    Last edited by JRemix; 02-13-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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  13. #793
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    Very inspiring, as always! That 5x 525 looked insainely easy!
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  14. #794
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    Long time lurker, very motivating stuff here! I always look at your pics for motivation when dieting down for a show, which is currently the case as well haha.


    I saw in a previous thread that you mentioned you use the premier cut posing trunks (I'm assuming from jagware? didn't see that style anywhere else). what size did you go with? I'm a little confused on their sizes. it says they have a medium, a med/small, and a small. I know i'll at least get the medium and not the small, but didn't know about the med/small size which was a new one to me. your competition stats are fairly close to what mine will be I think, so just curious and wanting to know for reference.
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  15. #795
    Registered User NaturalMarty's Avatar
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    ok ill keep it short just wanna confirm i am a intermediate before i start 3DMJ Push/pull/legs
    weight 88kg
    lifting 3 years
    current pbs squats 140x2, deadlift 150, bench 100x2, db bench 44x4 (all KGS)
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  16. #796
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    what specific injuries have you dealt with in your career so far Berto?
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  17. #797
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder FATHER FLEX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JRemix View Post
    Yeah you are right, I just remembered that Berto already told me that month to month you'll gain diff amounts of weight and it's all about adjusting etc and results over time (since gaining phases are 6 months+). In that case small differences of 0.5lb a month aren't that big of a deal. At least I know that I should not be gaining 3lbs a month.

    I have one question left from my above post (the one of whether 3dmjs 3 day full body or their upper/lower split would be best for me)...but I have a feeling Berto implied that 3 day full body is ideal for now since I discussed that in my post (and I said upper/lower prob isn't right just yet).


    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Already answered above....

    Originally Posted by JRemix View Post
    True that. I thought one would be better than the other just based on what type of intermediate I was. I don't know which body parts grow easily for me so the full body one is prob best for now. I'll run with it for a bit and see how it goes.

    You are beyond linear progression dude

    Originally Posted by JureRus View Post
    Very inspiring, as always! That 5x 525 looked insainely easy!
    I think two more reps would have been possible...Going for 3's tomorrow

    Originally Posted by XClassic10 View Post
    Long time lurker, very motivating stuff here! I always look at your pics for motivation when dieting down for a show, which is currently the case as well haha.


    I saw in a previous thread that you mentioned you use the premier cut posing trunks (I'm assuming from jagware? didn't see that style anywhere else). what size did you go with? I'm a little confused on their sizes. it says they have a medium, a med/small, and a small. I know i'll at least get the medium and not the small, but didn't know about the med/small size which was a new one to me. your competition stats are fairly close to what mine will be I think, so just curious and wanting to know for reference.
    I think for you a medium small would be best, because mediums I think are best for natural heavies, and then the other sizes are for dudes that are 200+ + +



    Originally Posted by NaturalMarty View Post
    ok ill keep it short just wanna confirm i am a intermediate before i start 3DMJ Push/pull/legs
    weight 88kg
    lifting 3 years
    current pbs squats 140x2, deadlift 150, bench 100x2, db bench 44x4 (all KGS)
    Intermediates should NOT be on a split that has you workout 6 our of 8 days. In my opinion...

    Originally Posted by Heracles26 View Post
    what specific injuries have you dealt with in your career so far Berto?
    Shoulder in 2003
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  18. #798
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    First post back on bb.com in a month r so, just wanted to drop a quick ty for the youtube vids.
    Prepping at the moment and the info helps me stay on track!!

    Thanks mang and the rest of the 3dmj crew
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    Originally Posted by Bnizzle163 View Post
    S*** getting real in here!
    And SWOLE!

    Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    405 x 21
    You trying to be the next doug miller B?

    Can't high rep dead for crap, now squat for reps! Getting there!

    Originally Posted by TheNaturalOak View Post
    First post back on bb.com in a month r so, just wanted to drop a quick ty for the youtube vids.
    Prepping at the moment and the info helps me stay on track!!

    Thanks mang and the rest of the 3dmj crew
    Thank you dude, and you might dig this one because I know being precise is a big part of your life right now

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  21. #801
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    Great to see you on MFP!

    And I have a question if it's okay. For a beginner that's seriously lifted for about 6 months now, is linear progress that important? Because while I've gained about 7 pounds in like 4 months, my lifts haven't progressed that much. My bench press and overhead press have hardly moved, maybe about 5 pounds for a 5x5, but my squats/deads have improved quite a bit, by around 30 pounds each with proper form, what do you think could be causing the upper body stalling? Should I be getting a bigger surplus? Is it probably an issue of form or overreaching?

    I'm on Jason Blaha's 5x5 bodybuilder novice routine, 160 pounds and 18 years old. Thanks for reading if you did!
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  22. #802
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    Hey Berto, i have a question about shoulder rehab. in the past couple of weeks i've had to stop doing heavy DB presses, overhead and all Bench angles, so i've dropped the weight in half, also for my 'delts' workout i just did really light rotator cuff moves, what are your thoughts on this as i am asking because you've had a shoulder injury if i remember correctly? cheers.
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    Originally Posted by FATHER FLEX View Post
    You are beyond linear progression dude
    I will begin your 5 day upper lower split ASAP then (the one you recommend for mid level intermediates). I'll scrap the full body routine.
    Last edited by JRemix; 02-17-2013 at 07:54 PM.
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    Your protein seems kinda low? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought earlier in this log you stated you'd be starting at 300g daily since you've known in the past that worked better for you?

    Awesome stuff in here thought, I'm starting to really see the need for the RPE scale as I pass that "beyond intermediate" phase and I'm enjoying how you have continued to bring up the significance of going to failure or not.
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    Pro Natural Bodybuilder FATHER FLEX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by benjobb View Post
    Great to see you on MFP!

    And I have a question if it's okay. For a beginner that's seriously lifted for about 6 months now, is linear progress that important? Because while I've gained about 7 pounds in like 4 months, my lifts haven't progressed that much. My bench press and overhead press have hardly moved, maybe about 5 pounds for a 5x5, but my squats/deads have improved quite a bit, by around 30 pounds each with proper form, what do you think could be causing the upper body stalling? Should I be getting a bigger surplus? Is it probably an issue of form or overreaching?

    I'm on Jason Blaha's 5x5 bodybuilder novice routine, 160 pounds and 18 years old. Thanks for reading if you did!
    Progress should in large should be linear, when it isn't then you can do something with undulating rep work but still in a full body fashion. One thing we have to remember with that all these phases look different on everyone...Bryce Lewis as a early to middle level intermediate was pulling 500lbs so don't go by numbers, but more so the pace of your recovery

    Originally Posted by tomcardno1 View Post
    Hey Berto, i have a question about shoulder rehab. in the past couple of weeks i've had to stop doing heavy DB presses, overhead and all Bench angles, so i've dropped the weight in half, also for my 'delts' workout i just did really light rotator cuff moves, what are your thoughts on this as i am asking because you've had a shoulder injury if i remember correctly? cheers.
    Shoulder injuries can vary soooooooooooooooooooooo much from person to person, so many thing can go wrong with that joint. Do your research, and see a specialist. That way you have good questions, and can help him/her narrow down the problem some

    Originally Posted by JRemix View Post
    I will begin your 5 day upper lower split ASAP then (the one you recommend for mid level intermediates). I'll scrap the full body routine.
    Yeah the 5th day is VERY VERY optional but of course people will do it because it means more gym time Four days is about right for most, but feel fee to play around with it

    Originally Posted by DiamondMaker View Post
    Your protein seems kinda low? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought earlier in this log you stated you'd be starting at 300g daily since you've known in the past that worked better for you?

    Awesome stuff in here thought, I'm starting to really see the need for the RPE scale as I pass that "beyond intermediate" phase and I'm enjoying how you have continued to bring up the significance of going to failure or not.
    The fatter and more well fed you are the less you need. Right now my is heavier than it wants to be, but I need it...I am accumulating good "fat boy strength"

    And yeah totally is helping me progress at the right rate for me, and this is despite the fact that I am not focusing on strength to much, and really won't until after the the March meet.
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    Bit of youtube exposure and thread proceeds to turn into a q&a just like Layne's...
    Last edited by GHOSTN; 02-18-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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    Originally Posted by GHOSTN View Post
    Bit of youtube exposure and thread proceeds to turn into a q&a just like Layne's...
    It has always kinda been that way...I think my old threads turned into Q&As than this one
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    Originally Posted by FATHER FLEX View Post
    YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! Bertron in Aus FTMFW!
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