Nut Misc "Do You Even Lift?" Thread

[joelash302]

Never did one so it's safe to say its probably sh!t

Might help to add paused DB bench to your accessories. It seems to be helping me get more pop off the chest. I only use 55's and put my feet up on the bench so it's like 100% chest/anterior delts to get it moving.

[Vitek92]

LoL...

I was working out fasted and loving the adrenaline and concentration...but I was stalled and not having good workouts...changed to a fed wo, bumped 10kg for 5 reps and 3 sets easily in 2 WO...dafuq?

Oh....inb4coolstorybro

What Joel said, I always have a good workout if I have a big pre-wo meal.

[TXguy33]

This is the last thing i'll say about my own programming. Then i'll try to contribute more to JasonDB's "best thread on BB.com" thread. I want to get all of my assistance lifts set and keep them the same for a while. Doing Madcows, but want to add just a tad more volume with some assistance lifts that make sense. I know that I can handle it, because i'm on week 6 and so far haven't even come close to plateauing while lifts are going up steadily. Here's what i've got right now. Tell me if it looks good or suggest what I could do to improve it.

Monday:
Squat 5 x 5
Bench 5 x 5
Rows 5 x 5
Assistance:
weighted hypers 3 x 8
face pulls 3 x 8 (only thing extra on this day)
weighted abs 3 x 15
Cardio: HIIT

Wednesday:
squat 4 x 5
OH press 4 x 5
DL 4 x 5
Assistance:
DB incline 3 x 8 (really want to try to prioritize "upper" chest a little more, but don't want to take out OH press. I feel my "lower" chest is more developed creating a slight droop effect)
weighted planks
Cardio: LIIT

Friday:
squat 4 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8
Bench 4 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8
Rows 4 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8
Assistance:
BB curls 3 x 8
Weighted dips 3 x 8
Tri pushdown 3 x 8
Cardio: HIIT

so, pretty much the only extra's i'm doing are DB incline on wednesdays and face pulls on mondays. Although i'd really like to add some weighted chins somewhere, I haven't figured out where would be the best w/out taking anything else out.

[TXguy33]

I did 4x8 sets of face pulls starting up with 40 lb and then moving up 10 lb per set. They're challenging yet fun. I definitely felt my rear delts being working. So I'm adding to my modified program for 1.5x a week.

I also started doing face pulls and really like them. I'm going to start with adding 3 sets of 8 per week and go from there. Might try to get them in 1.5x week after a while. Do you have any recommendations or advice for my programming posted ^ there?

[TXguy33]

ya, it def. felt awkward the first time I did them. I also started off with pretty light weight kinda like you....about 50 lbs or so. Could have done more, but just wanted to get the movement right.

[ehayes]

First time posting in thread, bout to head to work to train some clients and hit a heavy leg day tonight. Always been a fan of the face pulls when burning out my upper back as well, referring to the above posters.

[snrygo]

Deloadwd for a week about 6-7 weeks ago and then back cycled all my lifts by 10-15% about 2 weeks ago and was supposed to reach my maxes again last Friday. Still haven't been able to even touch them

Basically I have been bombing my last 3 sessions hard. Watdo?

[snrygo]

You could eat even more. If you're not showing the signs of a deload need, you might be eating short of recovery.

-.-

[PR1MO]

I just got done watching Ian's video on shoulders and I had a question about rotator cuff muscle health. Are facepulls a good "lift" for strengthening the rotator cuffs and to avoid the hunched look?

I watched that too and thought it was odd that he said Military presses are bad for the rotator cuffs, whereas DB presses are better. Which seems odd since DB presses are basically elbows flared while BB Military press you have your elbows tucked. Then I read a Joe DeFrance article where he makes the overhead press sound more evil than red meat with sugar on it, then I read a Bill Starr article where he says that's nonsense, OHPing makes for healthy shoulders and the increase in popularity of the bench and lack of OHP is to blame for most of the shoulder issues these days. Any one got any insight here? (I'm looking at you Jason)

[TXguy33]

This is the last thing i'll say about my own programming. Then i'll try to contribute more to JasonDB's "best thread on BB.com" thread. I want to get all of my assistance lifts set and keep them the same for a while. Doing Madcows, but want to add just a tad more volume with some assistance lifts that make sense. I know that I can handle it, because i'm on week 6 and so far haven't even come close to plateauing while lifts are going up steadily. Here's what i've got right now. Tell me if it looks good or suggest what I could do to improve it.

Monday:
Squat 5 x 5
Bench 5 x 5
Rows 5 x 5
Assistance:
weighted hypers 3 x 8
face pulls 3 x 8 (only thing extra on this day)
weighted abs 3 x 15
Cardio: HIIT

Wednesday:
squat 4 x 5
OH press 4 x 5
DL 4 x 5
Assistance:
DB incline 3 x 8 (really want to try to prioritize "upper" chest a little more, but don't want to take out OH press. I feel my "lower" chest is more developed creating a slight droop effect)
weighted planks
Cardio: LIIT

Friday:
squat 4 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8
Bench 4 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8
Rows 4 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8
Assistance:
BB curls 3 x 8
Weighted dips 3 x 8
Tri pushdown 3 x 8
Cardio: HIIT

so, pretty much the only extra's i'm doing are DB incline on wednesdays and face pulls on mondays. Although i'd really like to add some weighted chins somewhere, I haven't figured out where would be the best w/out taking anything else out.

bumping this to a new page.....

[TXguy33]

Jason should be paid for training the whole nutmisc, lol.

[SoulZeppelin]

-.-

How have you been sleeping? Sleep has a huge effect on my performance.

[PR1MO]

I don't recall him saying anything like that.

Watch from 7:35

[ErickStevens]

Watch from 7:35

[youtube]jkOG9sFgYeA[/youtube

[PR1MO]

Hmm. Can't agree with what he said. I find the DBs to be more intensive on the rotator cuffs. Despite hating the OHP, I don't walk away with sore cuffs like I did after a session of DB SPs. I'm a form Nazi, and it's painful.

Yeah, there seems to be conflicting views so I'm after some more thoughts, gonna hit the interwebz for more information.

[snrygo]

I'm serious. I know you don't like being told that, but all signs would lead to that or you're having subconscious issues with your grandfather's death.

i doubt it was the latter seeing as the crap WOs started friday before he passed.

How have you been sleeping? Sleep has a huge effect on my performance.

sleeping the same less restful over the weekend but sleep never really has a huge effect on my performance

[PerpetualMotion]

I watched that too and thought it was odd that he said Military presses are bad for the rotator cuffs, whereas DB presses are better. Which seems odd since DB presses are basically elbows flared while BB Military press you have your elbows tucked. Then I read a Joe DeFrance article where he makes the overhead press sound more evil than red meat with sugar on it, then I read a Bill Starr article where he says that's nonsense, OHPing makes for healthy shoulders and the increase in popularity of the bench and lack of OHP is to blame for most of the shoulder issues these days. Any one got any insight here? (I'm looking at you Jason)

Barbell OHP requires a certain level of mobility and flexibility that most people simply don't possess, which is why you see them arch the **** out of their lower back. From a rotator stand point, you need less internal rotation at the glenohumeral joint as well as better scapular stability to be able to safely OHP with a BB. Modern day life has people in excessive kyphosis meaning excess internal rotation, poor scapular function, and horrible thoracic mobility, all of which compromise the rotator during the OHP. Tons of people injure themselves OHPing. I personally wouldn't demonize the lift because people haven't taken care of their body.

With DBs, it's different. There's a reason why people can do a lot of things with DBs pain free and not with BBs and that's because the latter essentially puts you in a fixed position. There's far more freedom with a DB so you'll probably looking at less subacromial space.

Eric Cressey adds some stuff I didn't mention:
http://www.ericcressey.com/the-overhead-press

So, it's not complete hogwash.

[snrygo]

Add 250 kcal to what you're eating now and evaluate after a few sessions.

So you're saying 4.7k





I think I just shat myself

[PR1MO]

Barbell OHP requires a certain level of mobility and flexibility that most people simply don't possess, which is why you see them arch the **** out of their lower back. From a rotator stand point, you need less internal rotation at the glenohumeral joint as well as better scapular stability to be able to safely OHP with a BB. Modern day life has people in excessive kyphosis meaning excess internal rotation, poor scapular function, and horrible thoracic mobility, all of which compromise the rotator during the OHP. Tons of people injure themselves OHPing. I personally wouldn't demonize the lift because people haven't taken care of their body.

With DBs, it's different. There's a reason why people can do a lot of things with DBs pain free and not with BBs and that's because the latter essentially puts you in a fixed position. There's far more freedom with a DB so you'll probably looking at less subacromial space.

Eric Cressey adds some stuff I didn't mention:
http://www.ericcressey.com/the-overhead-press

So, it's not complete hogwash.

Interesting points. However it seems more like the reason to avoid the exercise is physical issues affecting certain people, not because of the movement itself (which can aggravate said issues). Wouldn't a better move be to address the reasons that someone cannot OHP safely than to just avoid it?

Also wondering how you determine if you are ill-suited to OHP, I do them now pain free and have never had shoulder issues but are there any tell-tale signs?

[illiniStrive]

Someone is saying military press is bad for the shoulders.......................

[PerpetualMotion]

Interesting points. However it seems more like the reason to avoid the exercise is physical issues affecting certain people, not because of the movement itself (which can aggravate said issues).

This is pretty much true. People shouldn't avoid the OHP. It's a great movement but it also comes down to your clients (if you're a coach) and what's best for them.

Wouldn't a better move be to address the reasons that someone cannot OHP safely than to just avoid it?

That would be a good thing to do and a lot of people end up doing that. It also depends on the individual. If they're an athlete and train for a specific sport, it would be pointless to add it if it isn't beneficial to on-field performance. Take a pitcher for example. They spend most of their lives in the overhead position. To train them more with overhead pressing would simply increase their chances of injury.

Also wondering how you determine if you are ill-suited to OHP, I do them now pain free and have never had shoulder issues but are there any tell-tale signs?

- Internal rotation: Just see your hands position. Your palms should be neutral to your body not pronated a bunch.
- Thoracic mobility: Do a scapular wallside. When the arms come down, the person doing it shouldn't excessively arch at the lumbar. Similarly, they shouldn't have too much trouble going up without arching.
- Shoulder flexion: Hands by the side then slowly bring them up overhead. Some people might move their head forward more to compensate or arch at the lower back.
- Scapular positioning: You want to see if it's winging (which you can do by a simple push up test) or anterior tilting.

[snrygo]

Frankly, I'm pissed at the concept of homeostasis.

[mattypoole]

Someone is saying military press is bad for the shoulders.......................

If Ian is saying this (I still need to catch up on this vid), I'll flat out disagree.

OHP (I use DBs because a different in the length of my arms is too prominent to use barbells effectively) has never given me troubles (even when I was hitting about 200 lbs at my strongest before the extended lifting lay off), and my shoulders have responded well.

Only doing about 132 at the moment and not having a hint of an issue.

[hockeytownfan]

Barbell OHP requires a certain level of mobility and flexibility that most people simply don't possess, which is why you see them arch the **** out of their lower back. From a rotator stand point, you need less internal rotation at the glenohumeral joint as well as better scapular stability to be able to safely OHP with a BB. Modern day life has people in excessive kyphosis meaning excess internal rotation, poor scapular function, and horrible thoracic mobility, all of which compromise the rotator during the OHP. Tons of people injure themselves OHPing. I personally wouldn't demonize the lift because people haven't taken care of their body.

With DBs, it's different. There's a reason why people can do a lot of things with DBs pain free and not with BBs and that's because the latter essentially puts you in a fixed position. There's far more freedom with a DB so you'll probably looking at less subacromial space.

Eric Cressey adds some stuff I didn't mention:
http://www.ericcressey.com/the-overhead-press

So, it's not complete hogwash.

This. About 10 pages back Perp awared me of my internal rotation problems. Last three workouts I've been doing seated db presses pain free while doing external rotation work on the cable machine and some face pulls to get my posture corrected. Also been doing shoulder dislocations as well. Hopefully this resolves with in a few months and I can get back to OHP and BB bench.

[snrygo]

Lol no. I'm just frustrated that I couldn't even pull a triple of what I normally do for sets of reps today and for the last few WOs, progress has been stagnant not to mention lifts haven't increased in about 2 weeks now(ciz of the back cycle)

[mattypoole]

You did 200 on OHP? God damn.

Yeah mate, hoping to get back to that soon (taking it sloooowly though as I am 12+ years older and don't want to overdo it too soon and injure myself).

[PerpetualMotion]

Aren't those issues correctable?

As always, it's a "depends" issue. There are legitimately people who can never do certain exercise because of the way their body is structured (i.e. femur head and/or hip joint for back squatting).

[PerpetualMotion]

Yeah, I was hesitant with posting that because I recall reading about a condition that affects a small minority of people in the world because of their scapular orientation that causes it to "eject" outside of the back. But wouldn't it be safe to say these people are in a very small minority; like 1% of the populace?

For exercises that are heavily multi-jointed, you're bound to see a few people who can't do it but most people should be able to eventually do it. Mike Robertson actually wrote one of the best articles on OHPing. He's advocating it but he also mentions the anatomy side, fixes, etc.:
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=4735969

[joelash302]

Hmm, odd. I arch my back on OHP and have pretty ridiculous shoulder flexibility. Might need to assess that.

[snrygo]

On a separate note, is it wrong that I have organized my underwear into stuff I will squat in and stuff I wont?