I was an extreme Christian for 5 years and I can say without a doubt there is no god.

[spursbrah]

I have spent countless hundreds of hours praying. I used to pray for about 30 minutes every morning.

I have read the entire bible twice, every single book and verse.

I have been in over 1000 church services

I have stood on a corner and preached Jesus Christ to "sinners".

I have seen people get prayed for sicknesses and for healing.





Despite all of this, I can say with full confidence that god is a mythical, fictional being. If any christian or religious person were to take a CRITICAL look at the bible, they would no doubt come to the same conclusion. Instead of relying on feeling and emotions, take a step back and think this through logically.

You believe in a god who says he is "fair and just", yet justifies sending people to eternal torture for not believing in him. Nevermind that there is not a shred of proof for his existence, you just have to have faith right?

The bible is so filled with errors and contradictions that its laughable, no sane person would consider this book as holy or perfect. Stop fooling yourself and accept the hard truth. Remember I have read it twice, and yes I did read the KJV.

You have never seen or experienced god, but if you begin to doubt you think its the "devil" whispering in your ear.

Christians live their life on the tightrope of fear, they feel like one small slip and they'll burn in hell. Understand this is nothing more than a fear tactic to keep people in line.



I'm making this thread because I truly want people to be freed from religion, religion is the most evil thing man has ever invented. It was made by rich and powerful men to keep the poor obedient and submissive. This might have worked in ancient societies but it has no place in a modern one.

[Harbinger]

If only it were this simple.

[spursbrah]

If only it were this simple.

How so? Anybody who is religious is brainwashed, so I think if they heard the truth from someone who used to be like them they might accept it better.

[Harbinger]

How so? Anybody who is religious is brainwashed, so I think if they heard the truth from someone who used to be like them they might accept it better.

Problem is, most of us use to be like them and they we're closed minded. As I'm oft to say here, you cannot reason somebody out of a position they did not reason themselves into.

[TaeBoNinja]

Lack of proof of God =/= No God

[jasona]

I have stood on a corner and preached Jesus Christ to "sinners".

Glad you quit doing that, that shiit is annoying.

[Harbinger]

Lack of proof of God =/= No God

No but it sure does make a thinking person take pause and wonder.

[spursbrah]

Lack of proof of God =/= No God

You're right. What I meant to say is that the gods of popular religions are not real. There might be a god but he is hard as hell to find.

[lasher]

I have spent countless hundreds of hours praying. I used to pray for about 30 minutes every morning.

I have read the entire bible twice, every single book and verse.

I have been in over 1000 church services

I have stood on a corner and preached Jesus Christ to "sinners".

I have seen people get prayed for sicknesses and for healing.





Despite all of this, I can say with full confidence that god is a mythical, fictional being. If any christian or religious person were to take a CRITICAL look at the bible, they would no doubt come to the same conclusion. Instead of relying on feeling and emotions, take a step back and think this through logically.

You believe in a god who says he is "fair and just", yet justifies sending people to eternal torture for not believing in him. Nevermind that there is not a shred of proof for his existence, you just have to have faith right?

The bible is so filled with errors and contradictions that its laughable, no sane person would consider this book as holy or perfect. Stop fooling yourself and accept the hard truth. Remember I have read it twice, and yes I did read the KJV.

You have never seen or experienced god, but if you begin to doubt you think its the "devil" whispering in your ear.

Christians live their life on the tightrope of fear, they feel like one small slip and they'll burn in hell. Understand this is nothing more than a fear tactic to keep people in line.



I'm making this thread because I truly want people to be freed from religion, religion is the most evil thing man has ever invented. It was made by rich and powerful men to keep the poor obedient and submissive. This might have worked in ancient societies but it has no place in a modern one.

Thanks bro, I'm convinced you are right with this compelling argument. You're a gentleman and a scholar, although I am a terrible liar.

Also, 15/f/cali? Avi seems to indicate frauding ...

[Harbinger]

Also, 15/f/cali? Avi seems to indicate frauding ...

That's where he is, smashing some 15 year old in cali

[spursbrah]

Thanks bro, I'm convinced you are right with this compelling argument. You're a gentleman and a scholar, although I am a terrible liar.

Also, 15/f/cali? Avi seems to indicate frauding ...

Might as well hear it from someone who's been there. I know I am a shiity writer though.

[semitope]

How so? Anybody who is religious is brainwashed, so I think if they heard the truth from someone who used to be like them they might accept it better.

problem is that for every person like you, there is another who came from being atheist to religious with the same accusations against atheists. Obviously this is just your own situation and after 7,500 + posts here, you must have been hearing these atheists speak way too often with no counter.

God is independent of whatever religion you dislike btw

exactly how does this

I have spent countless hundreds of hours praying. I used to pray for about 30 minutes every morning.

I have read the entire bible twice, every single book and verse.

I have been in over 1000 church services

I have stood on a corner and preached Jesus Christ to "sinners".

I have seen people get prayed for sicknesses and for healing.

prove that the christian God doesn't exist? My phone could ring for eternity without me answering it, does that mean I don't exist?

[sithroya]

Christianity is not really a religion anymore, its a cult with jewish tarots and characters

[1hardgainer]

OP,

There are Christians who would probably question if you were ever saved to begin with. Have you ever: 1. believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all the sins of mankind and that He rose from the dead three days later, 2. accepted Him as your Savior and acknowledge that He is the only way to heaven?

[coffey06]

I can say without a doubt there is no god.

I respect you for coming out and saying this. People who admit to being gnostic atheists are rare on this board.

religion is the most evil thing man has ever invented.

How do you reconcile the existence of "evil" with atheism? What kind of worldview do you have that enables the existence of moral values without God? Or by "evil" do you just mean that you don't prefer religion or that you think religion is not conducive to the advancement of humanity?

[_AdaM_]

Maybe God is with the Muslims.

Try Islam!

[HopingInJehovah]

Remember I have read it twice, and yes I did read the KJV.

It was made by rich and powerful men to keep the poor obedient and submissive. This might have worked in ancient societies but it has no place in a modern one.

Were you able to come up with an reoccurring theme, that appears from Genesis to Revelation?

[ClevageGobbler]

I have spent countless hundreds of hours praying. I used to pray for about 30 minutes every morning.

I have read the entire bible twice, every single book and verse.

I have been in over 1000 church services

I have stood on a corner and preached Jesus Christ to "sinners".

I have seen people get prayed for sicknesses and for healing.





Despite all of this, I can say with full confidence that god is a mythical, fictional being. If any christian or religious person were to take a CRITICAL look at the bible, they would no doubt come to the same conclusion. Instead of relying on feeling and emotions, take a step back and think this through logically.

You believe in a god who says he is "fair and just", yet justifies sending people to eternal torture for not believing in him. Nevermind that there is not a shred of proof for his existence, you just have to have faith right?

The bible is so filled with errors and contradictions that its laughable, no sane person would consider this book as holy or perfect. Stop fooling yourself and accept the hard truth. Remember I have read it twice, and yes I did read the KJV.

You have never seen or experienced god, but if you begin to doubt you think its the "devil" whispering in your ear.

Christians live their life on the tightrope of fear, they feel like one small slip and they'll burn in hell. Understand this is nothing more than a fear tactic to keep people in line.



I'm making this thread because I truly want people to be freed from religion, religion is the most evil thing man has ever invented. It was made by rich and powerful men to keep the poor obedient and submissive. This might have worked in ancient societies but it has no place in a modern one.

1) Do you regret having prayed that much? I have never regretted the time I spent in prayer.

2) Reading the Bible twice most likely did you a lot of good. More good than you probably care to admit even if a good amount of the material is not true.

3) How can you say with full confidence that a creator does not exist? You are obviously just upset right now because you and everybody else knows it's impossible to prove or disprove that there is a god. That's just how it is my friend.

[spursbrah]

OP,

There are Christians who would probably question if you were ever saved to begin with. Have you ever: 1. believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all the sins of mankind and that He rose from the dead three days later, 2. accepted Him as your Savior and acknowledge that He is the only way to heaven?

I was definitely saved. Only someone who is saved would willingly stand in front of dozens of people and preach the gospel.

That still though does not make god real though.

Were you able to come up with an reoccurring theme, that appears from Genesis to Revelation?

No. Think of the passage that says "God is not an author of confusion", then ask yourself if that holds even a gram of truth. The bible has so many different translations and doctrines that it is definitely a book that causes mass confusion.

[spursbrah]

1) Do you regret having prayed that much? I have never regretted the time I spent in prayer.

2) Reading the Bible twice most likely did you a lot of good. More good than you probably care to admit even if a good amount of the material is not true.

3) How can you say with full confidence that a creator does not exist? You are obviously just upset right now because you and everybody else knows it's impossible to prove or disprove that there is a god. That's just how it is my friend.

1) I suppose I don't regret praying. I think of prayer as a form of meditation now, instead of direct communication with god. Prayer makes people feel happier psychologically but I don't think it has anything to do with a supernatural being.

2) Sure the bible has some good stories and values. One of my favorite stories I've ever read is the story of David and Absalom in 2 Samuel. This does not mean god is real though.

3) I can say with confidence that the god of the bible does not exist. Any person who reads the scripture critically would come to the same conclusion. Many people though just pick and choose which verses to follow and which to ignore.

I respect you for coming out and saying this. People who admit to being gnostic atheists are rare on this board.



How do you reconcile the existence of "evil" with atheism? What kind of worldview do you have that enables the existence of moral values without God? Or by "evil" do you just mean that you don't prefer religion or that you think religion is not conducive to the advancement of humanity?

I think religion is evil because it is the most effective tool for mind control. I know at my old church it was funny how hundreds of people had the same exact opinion on everything, even political opinion. After a while a religious person becomes a sheep, someone who needs another person to tell them how to think and how to act.

[lasher]

I was definitely saved. Only someone who is saved would willingly stand in front of dozens of people and preach the gospel.

That still though does not make god real though.






No. Think of the passage that says "God is not an author of confusion", then ask yourself if that holds even a gram of truth. The bible has so many different translations and doctrines that it is definitely a book that causes mass confusion.

Preservation of the saints. You were not.

[coffey06]

I think religion is evil because it is the most effective tool for mind control.

Why is mind control evil? Why is anything evil? What are human beings in your opinion? Are we anything more than a collection of atoms?

[spursbrah]

problem is that for every person like you, there is another who came from being atheist to religious with the same accusations against atheists. Obviously this is just your own situation and after 7,500 + posts here, you must have been hearing these atheists speak way too often with no counter.

You know in 5 years of church I never saw an atheist convert to Christ. And just to make such a claim proves you have no idea what atheism really is. Atheism simply means not believing in something until there is definitive proof.

I have however known and heard of many people like me - people burned by religion.

[spursbrah]

Preservation of the saints. You were not.

Was not what? Saved? If I wasn't saved, then I can say that 99.9999% of the world will burn in hell for not being saved.

Why is mind control evil? Why is anything evil? What are human beings in your opinion? Are we anything more than a collection of atoms?

People should have the freedom to decide what they believe. When a person is indoctrinated from youth to believe in Jesus Christ, that is not freedom, that is bondage.


I do not believe in the soul, if that is what you ask. I want to believe that humans are special and have souls, but I have yet to see any evidence of such a claim.

[coffey06]

People should have the freedom to decide what they believe. When a person is indoctrinated from youth to believe in Jesus Christ, that is not freedom, that is bondage.


I do not believe in the soul, if that is what you ask. I want to believe that humans are special and have souls, but I have yet to see any evidence of such a claim.

I agree with you that freedom is good. My question is how, on your worldview, is freedom (or anything) good? How is mind control evil? What is the basis for morality? If humans do not have any component to their being other than the physical, then how do we have any value whatsoever? We're an accident of the universe, a collection of atoms whose appearance on the cosmic scale is brief and miniscule and who are collectively doomed to perish in the near future. Do we even have freedom over our actions if we're merely physical beings? How can you call any person evil for doing something he is physically determined to do (ignoring the fact that you are physically determined to condemn the "evil" action)?

[jeremymatzke]

Belief is your freedom

[Scoundrel]

You believe in a god who says he is "fair and just", yet justifies sending people to eternal torture for not believing in him. Nevermind that there is not a shred of proof for his existence, you just have to have faith right?

Ya, well, thanks for acknowledging you have in fact not done your studying on the matter. Now tell me, how critically have you really approached this subject?

With all that aside, why dont you tell us how you really feel? 30 min prayers man, that sounds brutal. What the hell were you praying about?

[spursbrah]

I agree with you that freedom is good. My question is how, on your worldview, is freedom (or anything) good? How is mind control evil? What is the basis for morality? If humans do not have any component to their being other than the physical, then how do we have any value whatsoever? We're an accident of the universe, a collection of atoms whose appearance on the cosmic scale is brief and miniscule and who are collectively doomed to perish in the near future. Do we even have freedom over our actions if we're merely physical beings? How can you call any person evil for doing something he is physically determined to do (ignoring the fact that you are physically determined to condemn the "evil" action)?

I would say that in its simplest definition, "evil" is removing or abusing another person's free will to benefit myself. This includes mind-control and other fear tactics used by governments and religions.

Ya, well, thanks for acknowledging you have in fact not done your studying on the matter. Now tell me, how critically have you really approached this subject?

With all that aside, why dont you tell us how you really feel? 30 min prayers man, that sounds brutal. What the hell were you praying about?

How so?

When praying I usually had a list. When you believe in god its easier to pray that's for sure. I could never pray now.

[me.]

a man can read the Bible once and get more out of it than someone who has read it over a thousand. you are making it seem as if the amount of times you read the Word and the amount of time you spent praying makes you a bigger Christian, why? God would rather you pray for 1 minutes from your heart.

I hope you really think about what you are saying and pray to become more informed and understanding of how Christ works. Maybe you are going through something in your life that's making you doubt or maybe you are just in a phase where you question everything. I think that over time you will come back to believing what you once did, if you really did so in the first place >.>

[SlapBassist]

going to just respond with my thoughts in bolded below your own... just a fellow christian...

I have spent countless hundreds of hours praying. I used to pray for about 30 minutes every morning.
praying never "solidified" any hold on my relationsihp with God. just a way for me to openly express, and partially come to realize whats going on in my own spirit for myself, and communicating it to him asking for guidance and direction with what i'm doing. God helps me, and i could get answers by what went on around and responses in that manner lol...

I have read the entire bible twice, every single book and verse.
i have not done that, but keep in mind, it doesn't solidify anything for you. you can have a conversation with a friend, say similar things, but get something different out of the other conversation from it. same with books - this book even more so. Recently, i've read through Romans 1-12 probably 8 times? Only vaguely remember all of it, though I could give you some details on what was being taught. Doesn't solidify anything for me, nothing other than it helps give me knowledge and milk to rely in faith on.

I have been in over 1000 church services
lol can go against you broseph. i can't speak for you, but for me, God speaks to me personally through church about things. What they're preaching about can be a personal message that you personally, need to hear. IMO, its hard for us to open our hearts to him, because exposing ourselves in our darkest areas to a blinding light is daunting..... if know we keep trying and realize once we turn and repent to him, and He will turn and heal us

I have stood on a corner and preached Jesus Christ to "sinners".
surely a good thing to learn, to have confidence in yourself, and to learn how to pull things out from people's hearts and souls. Doesn't prove you "more christian", nor does it in itself help you grow closer to God. God can use it to help you grow, but doesn't mean its the thing giving growth, thats God

I have seen people get prayed for sicknesses and for healing.

was thinking on this on the first question. why are we so easy and quick to dismiss a miracle and instead of giving miracles credit, we give the credit to doubt? i can think of two stances at work where God answered my prayers. One of which where my manager was starting to get sick, I remember people talking on "oh, he missed it on vitamin c blabla". Prayed for it, next day he was feeling better. Another stance is a coworker was going to leave on account of a hurting back. talked back and forth with him on praying about his back and such - told him i would and if/when it got better, credit goes to Jesus. we went about our business - about an hour or so later, he came in and was talking - just so happened, his back had stopped hurting almost entirely. Lotta "lucky" scenarios like that in answers, but I'm just saying man, that is one possible area of where He is responding.





Despite all of this, I can say with full confidence that god is a mythical, fictional being. If any christian or religious person were to take a CRITICAL look at the bible, they would no doubt come to the same conclusion. Instead of relying on feeling and emotions, take a step back and think this through logically.

i disagree. critically looking into the bible, you look at it in the sense of, "if every word is truth, how can it all be so?" and see and take interpretation from such as follows. If you take an interpretation with the bible, and it doesn't line up in another area - your interpretation is wrong... just on a personal note, i've been noticing plenty of things. One of which is that life itself is much like a fractal from my perspective. From elements going to molecules, going to spices to types of food (indian, italian, etc), to different cuisines, from everything. Fractals man. As crazy as I sound, I realize I'm on a tangent right now, existence points towards what I see as being fractals, and what I take from fractals is something infinite behind the creation of them, pointing towards an infinite God. God exists. He's coming back soon too.


You believe in a god who says he is "fair and just", yet justifies sending people to eternal torture for not believing in him. Nevermind that there is not a shred of proof for his existence, you just have to have faith right?

a little bit spitefully critical, no? there is proof for his existence, but just because there is proof and evidence for existence, it still takes a statement of faith to believe, or to disbelieve his existence even. i would think of all people in creation - God is one whom is just. Can the pot tell the potter, "hey, quit your molding me wrong!!"..... no... its the pot, what does it know about making itself, when it didn't make itself? Are you righteous before God? In all honesty, have you not sinned against God in all your life? Have you lived perfectly before him in all respects of which you are able? No? You aren't holy friend. You don't meet his standard - so quit trying to justify yourself by works. Just like abraham, you only get justification in God's eyes, by accepting what He has done for you. Abraham got that by following what God had planned for Him. We get that by responding into what God has done for us - He paid the price for all of us, that we personally owe Him, so when judgement comes and we go to pay that debt, He will say on our account - "paid by me". If the judge came to you, and gave you what you needed to get away from a case innocent, when the case was between you and him, and you neglected using what He gave you, to be found free in his eyes and the court - you reject it and spit in His face the gift He gave to free you, and you expect him to force freedom on you? He loves you enough to give you free will and let you choose, even if it means to choose against Him. He died and gave everything needed for you to choose life, but its your choice.


The bible is so filled with errors and contradictions that its laughable, no sane person would consider this book as holy or perfect. Stop fooling yourself and accept the hard truth. Remember I have read it twice, and yes I did read the KJV.

easy to speak, not easy to back up. Numerous authors over thousands of years - people who can be backed up by history in that all of them existed, the kingdoms mentioned existed. There are numerous prophecies that line up throughout the bible - for Jesus Himself no less. As well, just saying - in terms of your "if God was so just...." dude. God is just, if you don't have Jesus as your savior, you think He gladly throws you into the pit of hell? No dude, He judges us completely justly. He is a just and loving Judge....

You have never seen or experienced god, but if you begin to doubt you think its the "devil" whispering in your ear.

Christians live their life on the tightrope of fear, they feel like one small slip and they'll burn in hell. Understand this is nothing more than a fear tactic to keep people in line.

for me - kinda. thats before i started to learn anything. I got scared of "oh noes, if i sin, then i need Jesus again and more!" I didn't realize once I accepted Him, the deed was done. Read in romans what it is about dude.... Freedom is what it's about. But like paul said - just because we are freed, does it mean we can go and sin? God forbid, because if we needed freedom from something like sin, why would we willingly chain ourselves again to it? But we are free in Christ - the debt has been paid. We don't follow the law. We follow God - but don't get confused if you don't see us lying, because when I follow my God, I don't want to lie. The law of faith bears witness to the law of the prophets.



I'm making this thread because I truly want people to be freed from religion, religion is the most evil thing man has ever invented. It was made by rich and powerful men to keep the poor obedient and submissive. This might have worked in ancient societies but it has no place in a modern one.

Disagree hardcore man. I've been blessed, because I've been a christian for a while. I was an "educated athiest" by most peoples standards - knew more than the average christian about their own religion, and stomped them debate-wise constantly. I've become christian since when I finally had a debate where it left me off quesitoning myself in all honesty my integrity of searching for Truth. Became christian soon after. Even still, have been slacking as a christian, and I havent read the bible twice, gone to 1000 church services, preached my voice quiet in street corners - but it's not about that. God has been taking care of me regardless, guiding me and keeping me to Himself still. Now I'm starting to read a little bit more, and thank God He's starting to give me revelation within it. Basically I'm saying it sounds we came from opposite areas - you more disciplined, circumsized if you will, and me I was uncircumsized. God is real though man - if you keep pursuing Him with all heart, He will reveal himself - for realz. If not - keep your eyes open, and when america falls, know it's God's judgement, and know He's coming soon behind it...