I may have to stop squatting due to shoulder inflexibility

[HairyScandinavian]

Need advice on improving shoulder flexibility specifically for ROM to get proper hand positioning on the bar for squatting. I do broomstick and rope stretches, off and on for almost a year now but it seems flexibility is getting worse. Friday I got a heck of a sharp pain while squatting, iced it down at work but it carried on over the weekend while working on my trucks. Felt good this morning but aggravated it again squatting, not as bad as Friday but it's still there.

[TheIronMaster]

Not sure if this may help or not. http://walking.about.com/od/stretchi...derstretch.htm

[bigtallox]

Need advice on improving shoulder flexibility specifically for ROM to get proper hand positioning on the bar for squatting. I do broomstick and rope stretches, off and on for almost a year now but it seems flexibility is getting worse.

Do you bench too? If so, maybe benching is causing the problem, and you're just noticing the issue when squatting ( I've seen this before ).

[ugzilla]

Do shoulder dislocations and your shoulders will become more flexible.

[John Prophet]

not a cure, but a workaround

[HairyScandinavian]

Do you bench too? If so, maybe benching is causing the problem, and you're just noticing the issue when squatting ( I've seen this before ).

Yes, but I squat first (madcow 5x5) and seem to always feel that stinger on my 2nd set of squats. Shoulder actually feels pretty good while doing flat bench, aches a little bit when doing the BO Row at the end too. Also no problems with the Standing OH Press on Wednesdays that I've noticed.

[HairyScandinavian]

not a cure, but a workaround

I hope it doesn't come to that man. I'm really starting to finally enjoy my squats now after finally learning to get well below parallel and making progress with the weights going up. I can't imagine I would be very consistent having to bring in my own safety bar with me three days a week.

[erinlee01]

FYI - shoulder dislocations:

http://stronglifts.com/shoulders-dislocations/

[Karl_Hungus]

How is your pulling strength? Is there a large imbalance between what you can bench and what you can row? Do you do as much pulling volume as you do pushing? The reason I ask is that sometimes these flexibility issues can be caused by a push/pull strength imbalance, and they can be corrected by simple changes in the routine to fix the imbalance. I had shoulder flexibility issues too several years ago, but I corrected the problem by upping my pulling volume and intensity.

[John Prophet]

I do broomstick shoulder locations as part of my warmup everytime I come to the gym.

part of what got me to do thorough warmups was pain from squatting, lol. I realized that often the bodypart that gets hurt is one that supposedly doesnt have anything to do with the actual movement. So on squats i figued out that I had to thoroughly warm up the delts/pecs/rotator cuff to avoid the exact problem you are having

Thats also why I have also always including presses behind the neck etc...and I mean with the bar all the way down resting on the traps etc. I figure to maintain shoulder flexibility that way and I dont worry too much about "pressing behind the neck will ruin your delts." I figure if I can do presses btn and broomstick dislocates, that holding squats wont be that much of a problem


conversely, I think one makes a mistake by avoiding anything that puts a stretch on a muscle or joint. Eventually the joint loses mobility and it shows up on other exercises etc. Not saying thats what happened to you, just throwing that out there

[chicago]

[QUOTE=HairyScandinavian;760471523]This sounds like a really ****ty plan. I'm tempted to neg you.


NO DUDE. it's an exercise. you need to look into rehabbing your shoulders. chances are you have strength imbalances. can you pull as much as you push? obviously this is all conjecture. no one can help you unless we AT LEAST see videos of you lifting.

[nixter]

My shoulders get a little ripe sometimes with squats. Have you ever tried sliding your hands out towards the plates? Seems to take some strain off for me.

[John Prophet]

dislocates...obviously you dont have to do them this fast, lol. Take your time. The wider u go, the easier it is. As u get more flexible u can inch the hands in etc

[nexgensupps]

I am not certain if i read that right about the shoulder presses. But you should never go behind the neck on shoulders or lat pull downs. They have show to have negative impact on the shoulders and the neck. That is what I read and I have always stuck by over the years.

As for squats. Until you are able to figure it out, have you tried hack squats? I know it is not free weight but it something. This way you dont have to have both arms up etc. Just a thought. I would err on the cautious side and do to the Dr. You could have many issues or none. This way you will know and can feel better about how to get better.

[John Prophet]

I am not certain if i read that right about the shoulder presses. But you should never go behind the neck on shoulders or lat pull downs. They have show to have negative impact on the shoulders and the neck. That is what I read and I have always stuck by over the years.

The people who say that are probably the same ones who say not to bring the bar down to the chest when benching. I mean, I guess there is always stamp collecting....then again I heard its dangerous due to paper cuts

[HairyScandinavian]

Thanks everyone for setting me straight on the shoulder dislocations, I thought dude was cracking a joke.

How is your pulling strength? Is there a large imbalance between what you can bench and what you can row? Do you do as much pulling volume as you do pushing? The reason I ask is that sometimes these flexibility issues can be caused by a push/pull strength imbalance, and they can be corrected by simple changes in the routine to fix the imbalance. I had shoulder flexibility issues too several years ago, but I corrected the problem by upping my pulling volume and intensity.

On this 5x5 routine I'm currently doing, my flat bench and BO Rows are exactly the same (which is nice) so would seem to be in balance at the moment. Historically my back/pulling has always been a hell of a lot stronger than any pushing/pressing movements though.

I do broomstick shoulder locations as part of my warmup everytime I come to the gym.

part of what got me to do thorough warmups was pain from squatting, lol. I realized that often the bodypart that gets hurt is one that supposedly doesnt have anything to do with the actual movement. So on squats i figued out that I had to thoroughly warm up the delts/pecs/rotator cuff to avoid the exact problem you are having

Thats also why I have also always including presses behind the neck etc...and I mean with the bar all the way down resting on the traps etc. I figure to maintain shoulder flexibility that way and I dont worry too much about "pressing behind the neck will ruin your delts." I figure if I can do presses btn and broomstick dislocates, that holding squats wont be that much of a problem


conversely, I think one makes a mistake by avoiding anything that puts a stretch on a muscle or joint. Eventually the joint loses mobility and it shows up on other exercises etc. Not saying thats what happened to you, just throwing that out there

That actually makes me feel a lot better, knowing that someone else had the exact problem. I was starting to feel a little weird hurting my shoulders while squatting. lol. I've never tried pressing behind the neck before.

NO DUDE. it's an exercise. you need to look into rehabbing your shoulders. chances are you have strength imbalances. can you pull as much as you push? obviously this is all conjecture. no one can help you unless we AT LEAST see videos of you lifting.

At the moment it's pretty much dead even on flat bench compared to BO Row. I'll try to get a vid, usually have to haul arse just to get finished in time as I workout on my lunch break and taking vids slows me down.

My shoulders get a little ripe sometimes with squats. Have you ever tried sliding your hands out towards the plates? Seems to take some strain off for me.

I did that today, but not all the way out. The bar sat on my spine a little funny but the shoulder felt better. On Wednesday with the light squats I'll try positioning them way out and see how that feels.

As for squats. Until you are able to figure it out, have you tried hack squats? I know it is not free weight but it something. This way you dont have to have both arms up etc. Just a thought. I would err on the cautious side and do to the Dr. You could have many issues or none. This way you will know and can feel better about how to get better.

I used to do barbell hack squats after full squats a while back. I recently was finally able to start squatting ATG for the first time ever though so I'd really hate to give up on it now, plus I love this 5x5 program and would like to milk it for all it's worth.

[nixter]

The people who say that are probably the same ones who say not to bring the bar down to the chest when benching. I mean, I guess there is always stamp collecting....then again I heard its dangerous due to paper cuts

It's just mechanics. People are built differently. I bring the bar to my chest in BP but I can't put the bar behind my head unless I want F'd shoulders in no time. Do what works for you and doesn't cause injuries.

[HairyScandinavian]

dislocates...obviously you dont have to do them this fast, lol. Take your time. The wider u go, the easier it is. As u get more flexible u can inch the hands in etc

I do those at least twice a week. I used to do them with a nice little aluminum bar at the old gym, but the new one doesn't have it so I always grab a network cable up here at the office and do a few sets before heading to the gym lol. I think they were more effective with the bar than they are with the cable. I didn't realize they were called dislocations.

[John Prophet]

another point, you dont have to MAX on an exercise just because you do it. For instance I have sometimes finished off a delt workout with 20 presses behind the neck with an empty bar. I usually also do that when I warmup, no matter what bodypart I am working. I always do some pulldowns, empty bar benches and presses, light db rows etc.

like, I would never do an upright row...I think they suck, lol...but I DO occasionally do them with the broomstick.



In a way its common sense. If one NEVER does any exercise that stretches the arms/delts behind the neck....how can one expect to then be able to reach around and hold a bar for low bar squats?

[OTH51]

In a way its common sense. If one NEVER does any exercise that stretches the arms/delts behind the neck....how can one expect to then be able to reach around and hold a bar for low bar squats?

Amen. I shave a shoulder impingement that I'm trying to work through right now. PTN only mildly irritate my shoulder but regular overhead presses kill.

<==== My competition squat in April 2011. Notice how close I can grip the bar without any discomfort.

[mrmbm]

I know you don't feel like lugging around a warm up bar, but have you thought about using straps? We know a couple people on here with chronic shoulder problems, and my bf/trainer has this trick:



It's nothing fancy but it may help...

[HairyScandinavian]

I know you don't feel like lugging around a warm up bar, but have you thought about using straps? We know a couple people on here with chronic shoulder problems, and my bf/trainer has this trick:



It's nothing fancy but it may help...

That is really interesting! Ultimately I want to work out the flexibility issues, but this may keep me squatting in the mean time if I can manage to not screw it up somehow.

[hardNheavy2011]

not a cure, but a workaround

This!!! I use mine every leg workout due to inflexible shoulders....actually, it's probably more due to excessive bench pressing over the years. LOL

[nexgensupps]

Actually I read it in a Weider publication some years ago, plus training at the Cooper Institute in Dallas. It is just a preference. It places alot of undue strain on your shoulders which will cause injuries at some time or another. To each their own. And no I dont call the way to my chest to bench press. I am working out my pecs not my delts. Once you go past parallel, you are no longer working the pec as the primary muscle. You are transferring the weight to your front delts, a small portion of you upper pec and your tris. With that said, I will go all the way down a few times to get a great stretch but never on a regular basis. That is kinetics 101.

Also stretching the muscles does not mean lifting to stretch.

Again to each there own and we are all comfortable with what we know and how our body reacts to each set, rep, and exercise.

[bigtallox]

And no I dont call the way to my chest to bench press. I am working out my pecs not my delts. Once you go past parallel, you are no longer working the pec as the primary muscle.

I've got a 7 foot wingspan and when I bench the bar touches my chest before my arms pass parallel. It seems to me if you're passing parallel prior to the bar touching your chest something's wrong.

[nexgensupps]

I agree. I know it sounds crazy, but at parallel the bar is no where near my chest....I have seen some where they are parallel and at their chest. I guess I just have long arms. But I always try to keep my elbows from going past parallel to the bench. Again I will go one or two to stretch but that is it.

A 7ft wide span huh..that is awesome!

[HairyScandinavian]

I simply can't envision how it's possible to not go past parallel on flat bench with the bar on your chest unless you have 4" forearms, unless you're doing close grips. Obviously I'm missing something. Mine are parallel when I'm about halfway down to my chest.

[nexgensupps]

At parallel I am about 6" or so from my chest. I use a medium grip a little more than shoulder width. Once I go to chest my elbows are past the and my back. But we are high jacking the OPs thread on this one.

[yakabebe]

not a cure, but a workaround

^^^^^^^^^6

Or this...I use it as I cant get both hands on the bar. One hand on it and the other is about a foot in front of it and no way can I get it anywhere near the bar

[Iceman1800]

Check out diesel crew on YouTube. They have tons of great shoulder rehab exercises.