Fish oil supplementation shortens life span

[tagun]

http://extremelongevity.net/wp-conte...-oil-death.pdf

AA, WonderPug, in10city and other nutritonal sages, what say you? Do we have to OD on antioxidants to reap the benefits of fish oil or are we gonna die if we don't supplement with antioxidants as well?

[Xfaxtor]

http://extremelongevity.net/wp-conte...-oil-death.pdf

AA, WonderPug, in10city and other nutritonal sages, what say you? Do we have to OD on antioxidants to reap the benefits of fish oil or are we gonna die if we don't supplement with antioxidants as well?

[WonderPug]

If you're a SAM, then you have something to be worried and that something is being a senescence-accelerated mouse.

[juliacheh]

Another study on rodents, how exciting.

[SideSteal]

Synthetic must be on vacation.

[FunkymonkAW]

BRB not dosing fish oil at 88g a day.

[trance__dreamer]

Synthetic must be on vacation.

bahahahaha.

Another study on rodents, how exciting.

/thread.

[tagun]

Great responses everyone, very constructive, rational and extremely thought-out. You're too kind, thanks!

What a great, loving community.

[US_Ranger]

According to the methods, the mice were given free access to food while in their cage. That leaves the question, how much of their diet was composted of fish oil? Unless you establish the percentage of food/bodyweight that is composed of fish oil then we can only speculate how much they're ingesting. Based on most mice studies (like all the scare studies with aspartame, etc) I'm guessing that it was some ridiculous amount and that was the cause of their shortened life span.

[jammyo40]

BRB not dosing fish oil at 88g a day.

^ This

[gixxer10]

BRB not dosing fish oil at 88g a day.

Agreed. In addition, it may be argued mice have not evolved from an evolutionary perspective to consume fish and utilize the oils of discussion. Humans conversely of course have consumed fish in their diet for 100,000's of years. Perhaps this has a role to play.

[in10city]

http://extremelongevity.net/wp-conte...-oil-death.pdf

AA, WonderPug, in10city and other nutritonal sages, what say you? Do we have to OD on antioxidants to reap the benefits of fish oil or are we gonna die if we don't supplement with antioxidants as well?

In order to understand how this does or does not apply to humans, you really need to understand a little something about the SA prone strains. Having used them in research, I can tell you in layman terms that they basically begin to fall apart after a certain age - eg decrease in mitrochondrial proteins, mitochondrial dysfunction, possible increased ROS, reduced endogenous enzymes like SOD and GPx and possible impaired hormetic response in various tissues. Since the genetic and molecular basis for their downfall is incompletely understood, and while certain mechanisms are attractive it's difficult to draw cause-effect conclusions (ie the increased lipid peroxidation decreased lifespan) and even more difficult to extrapolate this to humans perhaps with the exception of advanced age (not to mention the increased body of literature that refutes the free radial theory of aging).

According to the methods, the mice were given free access to food while in their cage. That leaves the question, how much of their diet was composted of fish oil? Unless you establish the percentage of food/bodyweight that is composed of fish oil then we can only speculate how much they're ingesting. Based on most mice studies (like all the scare studies with aspartame, etc) I'm guessing that it was some ridiculous amount and that was the cause of their shortened life span.

It says how much they ate per day and how much they weighed.

4.1 g/d eaten and 50 g per 1000 g of chow was fish oil = 0.21 g fish oil
mice weight = 37.1 g
bw dose = 5.7 g/kg

HED based on BSA = ~ 0.62 g/kg

[schabowy90]

BRB not dosing fish oil at 88g a day.

lolololololololol


...isnt the theme of this forum everything in moderation?

[tagun]

In order to understand how this does or does not apply to humans, you really need to understand a little something about the SA prone strains. Having used them in research, I can tell you in layman terms that they basically begin to fall apart after a certain age - eg decrease in mitrochondrial proteins, mitochondrial dysfunction, possible increased ROS, reduced endogenous enzymes like SOD and GPx and possible impaired hormetic response in various tissues. Since the genetic and molecular basis for their downfall is incompletely understood, and while certain mechanisms are attractive it's difficult to draw cause-effect conclusions (ie the increased lipid peroxidation decreased lifespan) and even more difficult to extrapolate this to humans perhaps with the exception of advanced age (not to mention the increased body of literature that refutes the free radial theory of aging).



It says how much they ate per day and how much they weighed.

4.1 g/d eaten and 50 g per 1000 g of chow was fish oil = 0.21 g fish oil
mice weight = 37.1 g
bw dose = 5.7 g/kg

HED based on BSA = ~ 0.62 g/kg

Thanks, this is actually what I was looking for! Not a bunch of know-it-alls spamming irrelevancy because they're bored.

[synthetic]

Another study on rodents, how exciting.

why discredit rodent studies? what human will take some biological aging drugs and start to eat .6g /kg bodyweight of fish oil while being in a cage? well this was actually done before, by the nazis in heat studies and what not

[juliacheh]

why discredit rodent studies? what human will take some biological aging drugs and start to eat .6g /kg bodyweight of fish oil while being in a cage? well this was actually done before, by the nazis in heat studies and what not

Wow. I'm fuking lost here.

[TheRagingboxer]

Wow. I'm fuking lost here.

Yea this one takes the cake! Or should I say takes the split pea protein whatever the fuk, since it is synthetic!

[RJT1534]

dont know what to believe anymore.

[alan aragon]

dont know what to believe anymore.

You can start off by believing within your heart & mind that you're not a rodent.

[alan aragon]

In order to understand how this does or does not apply to humans, you really need to understand a little something about the SA prone strains. Having used them in research, I can tell you in layman terms that they basically begin to fall apart after a certain age - eg decrease in mitrochondrial proteins, mitochondrial dysfunction, possible increased ROS, reduced endogenous enzymes like SOD and GPx and possible impaired hormetic response in various tissues. Since the genetic and molecular basis for their downfall is incompletely understood, and while certain mechanisms are attractive it's difficult to draw cause-effect conclusions (ie the increased lipid peroxidation decreased lifespan) and even more difficult to extrapolate this to humans perhaps with the exception of advanced age (not to mention the increased body of literature that refutes the free radial theory of aging).



It says how much they ate per day and how much they weighed.

4.1 g/d eaten and 50 g per 1000 g of chow was fish oil = 0.21 g fish oil
mice weight = 37.1 g
bw dose = 5.7 g/kg

HED based on BSA = ~ 0.62 g/kg

^^^Great response, seconded - along with all other responses in here implying that nutrient effects in rodents are generally not reliable predictors of human effects.

To the OP -- In the absence of human data, rodent data can serve as food for thought. However, in the case of fish oil, the human data thus far has for the most part been neutral or beneficial, not adverse. When human data conflicts with rodent data, guess which has more weight?

[HunterCML]

When human data conflicts with rodent data, guess which has more weight?

Funny pun, alagon.