Can anyone show me that cutting taxes for major corporations results in jobs?

[Beeewbs]

This is what the republicans tell us over and over. Does anyone have historical evidence that tax breaks for corporations creates a significant amount of jobs and really helps the economy?

[PSToolman]

This would be true if the tax we were cutting was an Employee tax, but we don't have that. Just the opposite, in fact.

[BadMonkeyFunker]

they've been getting tax breaks last 10 years. Look what happened! If they create jobs, they do it overseas - not here.
That's your historical evidence - last 10 years.

[otisthebat]

can anyone show me proof that not being in a recession results in corporations hiring more employees?

(the more money a business has, the more employees it will hire.)

[amtharin]

they've been getting tax breaks last 10 years. Look what happened! If they create jobs, they do it overseas - not here.
That's your historical evidence - last 10 years.

What taxes for major corporations have been cut in the last 10 years????

[MFP90X]

can anyone show me proof that not being in a recession results in corporations hiring more employees?

(the more money a business has, the more employees it will hire.)

Maybe in some cases, but not all. I know a privately held company that doing very well, but hasn't expanded. The extra profits are lining the wallets of the shareholders, not being used to hire more workers or pass the benefits on to the factory employees. In fact they use workers that are temps-in-name-only to avoid paying benefits.

[JB05]

It may or may not create jobs, but it may increase federal revenue (see: The Laffer Curve)

Are we talking about a tax cut from 90% to 50%, or a tax cut from 39% to 38%, or a tax credit, or tax code simplification? All of them have different effects. Usually, when liberals talk about removing "tax loopholes" they're referring to removing tax credits, but which ones? Most of them have a good purpose or intention.

-Should we remove the charitable giving tax credit?
-Should we remove the home office tax credit?
-Should we remove the historical building renovation tax credit?
-What about the home mortgage interest deduction tax credit?
-Or the first-time home buyer tax credit?
-Should we remove the tax credit that teachers can take for buying school supplies out-of-pocket?
-Should we remove tax credits (and depreciation schedules, etc) that encourage companies to replace capital equipment more regularly?

Theres no such thing as a free lunch. Obama's plan to close tax loopholes sounds great as a talking point. The reality that this would involve removing the charitable giving tax credit sounds dangerous. Private charities are already overworked and short on donations, taxing gifts to them wouldn't help their situation.

[BadMonkeyFunker]

What taxes for major corporations have been cut in the last 10 years????

Bush quietly signs corporate tax-cut bill 10/22/2004
“I signed a bill that’s going to help our manufacturers — that will save $77 billion over the next 10 years for the manufacturing sector of America,” Bush said. “That will help keep jobs here.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6307293/...-tax-cut-bill/

[leafs43]

Without tax cuts, the economy would be even worse because we would be even less competitive.



Hell, even Honda is now moving to Mexico to manufacture cars because of how un-competitive the US economy is becoming compared to the rest of the world.

[Beeewbs]

So, not a single conservative can prove it. But, you have no problem with your presidential candidates spewing this out over and over.

[JB05]

Hell, even Honda is now moving to Mexico to manufacture cars because of how un-competitive the US economy is becoming compared to the rest of the world.

The cheapest minimum wage laws in Mexico allow workers to for for $3.93 USD per day

Even with China's labor shortages and wage increases, they're making about $1.19 USD per day

The cheapest, unskilled American worker is paid $7.35/ hour. In India you could hire an MBA for about that much.

It's not the taxes, or the regulations, or the red tape, or environmental laws that drives companies away, though those can affect things at the margins. It's primarily a result of wages. $15/hour to a US factory worker vs. $1.19 for a Chinese factory worker is a pretty big gap to overcome, even considering transportation costs.

[leafs43]

So, not a single conservative can prove it. But, you have no problem with your presidential candidates spewing this out over and over.

Because its hard to prove quantitatively because giving a company money to do as they see fit, how can you measure a job total out of it?



Give a company a tax break, they are more likely to use that money to invest as their labor capacity is probably already currently filled.



It's like me asking you when you get your welfare check, "how many cookies did you make?"

[amtharin]

So, not a single conservative can prove it. But, you have no problem with your presidential candidates spewing this out over and over.

To me is not something that has to be proven, it just makes sense.

If I have more money I will spend more money..... That is a statement that does not need to be proven, its just the natural order of things.


Will 100% of people spend more?? no, but most will, and that is the same with corporations. I just dont understand the thought process of someone who needs such simple concepts "proven" to them.

[tts0lid]

A business is only going to spend money if it thinks it can make money.

In a time when corporations are sitting on record levels of cash, tax cuts aren't going to spur anything but the bottom line. They already have the means to hire and expand, it's just not profitable right now.

[leafs43]

A business is only going to spend money if it thinks it can make money.

In a time when corporations are sitting on record levels of cash, tax cuts aren't going to spur anything but the bottom line. They already have the means to hire and expand, it's just not profitable right now.

Any corporation sitting on hoards of cash without good reason will piss off its stockholders.


Stockholders could get a bigger rate of return if a corporation paid out dividends and which would allow dividend recipients to invest it elsewhere because cash sitting around under a mattress does nothing.

[ZenBowman]

The cheapest minimum wage laws in Mexico allow workers to for for $3.93 USD per day

Even with China's labor shortages and wage increases, they're making about $1.19 USD per day

The cheapest, unskilled American worker is paid $7.35/ hour. In India you could hire an MBA for about that much.

It's not the taxes, or the regulations, or the red tape, or environmental laws that drives companies away, though those can affect things at the margins. It's primarily a result of wages. $15/hour to a US factory worker vs. $1.19 for a Chinese factory worker is a pretty big gap to overcome, even considering transportation costs.

Actually, labor costs are not the only factor, one of the biggest reasons manufacturing is moving overseas is because Americans don't have the skills for growth industries, and because infrastructure is crumbling.

Listen to some top business leaders talk about the situation, they all agree that entitlement reform needs to happen, but investment in the future needs to continue.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....-back-to-work/

Fact: Not investing in education and infrastructure is probably more anti-business than increasing taxes.

[PSToolman]

The cheapest minimum wage laws in Mexico allow workers to for for $3.93 USD per day

Even with China's labor shortages and wage increases, they're making about $1.19 USD per day

The cheapest, unskilled American worker is paid $7.35/ hour. In India you could hire an MBA for about that much.

It's not the taxes, or the regulations, or the red tape, or environmental laws that drives companies away, though those can affect things at the margins. It's primarily a result of wages. $15/hour to a US factory worker vs. $1.19 for a Chinese factory worker is a pretty big gap to overcome, even considering transportation costs.

I don't buy this. The amount of labor that it takes to make the average car in the US is about 8% of the total cost. The savings in overseas labor alone won't increase profit margins that much. It's the savings through the tax incentives we give manufacturers who import their products that motivates them to move overseas.

[leafs43]

Actually, labor costs are not the only factor, one of the biggest reasons manufacturing is moving overseas is because Americans don't have the skills for growth industries, and because infrastructure is crumbling.

Listen to some top business leaders talk about the situation, they all agree that entitlement reform needs to happen, but investment in the future needs to continue.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....-back-to-work/

Fact: Not investing in education and infrastructure is probably more anti-business than increasing taxes.

Putting a tire on a car for 8 hours a day doesn't require a college education.

It doesn;t even require a high school education.

A 12 year old could do this job.

[all pro]

It may or may not create jobs, but it may increase federal revenue (see: The Laffer Curve)

Are we talking about a tax cut from 90% to 50%, or a tax cut from 39% to 38%, or a tax credit, or tax code simplification? All of them have different effects. Usually, when liberals talk about removing "tax loopholes" they're referring to removing tax credits, but which ones? Most of them have a good purpose or intention.

-Should we remove the charitable giving tax credit?
-Should we remove the home office tax credit?
-Should we remove the historical building renovation tax credit?
-What about the home mortgage interest deduction tax credit?
-Or the first-time home buyer tax credit?
-Should we remove the tax credit that teachers can take for buying school supplies out-of-pocket?
-Should we remove tax credits (and depreciation schedules, etc) that encourage companies to replace capital equipment more regularly?

Theres no such thing as a free lunch. Obama's plan to close tax loopholes sounds great as a talking point. The reality that this would involve removing the charitable giving tax credit sounds dangerous. Private charities are already overworked and short on donations, taxing gifts to them wouldn't help their situation.

The laffer curve no longer applies because we no longer have a manufacturing base. The entire tax code needs to be dumped and replaced. Capital gains tax for the wealthy and a consumption tax for everyone. Everything else needs to be dumped. Under that system if the company doesn't spend the money THEY GET TAXED! NO LOOP HOLES. Bring the jobs back, expand the company here and hire people, or we send the Brinks truck to your house escorted by M1 Abrams and relieve you of all of that filthy money cluttering up your safe.

[ZenBowman]

The laffer curve no longer applies because we no longer have a manufacturing base. The entire tax code needs to be dumped and replaced. Capital gains tax for the wealthy and a consumption tax for everyone. Everything else needs to be dumped. Under that system if the company doesn't spend the money THEY GET TAXED! NO LOOP HOLES. Bring the jobs back, expand the company here and hire people, or we send the Brinks truck to your house escorted by M1 Abrams and relieve you of all of that filthy money cluttering up your safe.

This sounds an awful lot like "big government" to me.

[ZenBowman]

Putting a tire on a car for 8 hours a day doesn't require a college education.

It doesn;t even require a high school education.

A 12 year old could do this job.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_309232.html

In a brutal job market, here's a task that might sound easy: Fill jobs in nursing, engineering and energy research that pay $55,000 to $60,000, plus benefits.

Yet even with 15 million people hunting for work, even with the unemployment rate nearing 10 percent, some employers can't find enough qualified people for good-paying career jobs.

Ask Steve Jones, a hospital recruiter in Indianapolis who's struggling to find qualified nurses, pharmacists and MRI technicians. Or Ed Baker, who's looking to hire at a U.S. Energy Department research lab in Richland, Wash., for $60,000 each.

Economists say the main problem is a mismatch between available work and people qualified to do it. Millions of jobs with attractive pay and benefits that once drew legions of workers to the auto industry, construction, Wall Street and other sectors are gone, probably for good. And those who lost those jobs generally lack the right experience for new positions popping up in health care, energy and engineering.

...

[all pro]

This sounds an awful lot like "big government" to me.

NOPE. It's just RESTORING the tax code. If your company turns a profit....it gets taxed. At least 25%. If people like Jeffrey Immelt want to export jobs to China then they and all of their investors are going to pay. No sad stories. No excuses. You turn a profit, you pay.

[ZenBowman]

NOPE. It's just RESTORING the tax code. If your company turns a profit....it gets taxed. At least 25%. If people like Jeffrey Immelt want to export jobs to China then they and all of their investors are going to pay. No sad stories. No excuses. You turn a profit, you pay.

So you want to punish the successful?

[Enso]

It's not the taxes, or the regulations, or the red tape, or environmental laws that drives companies away, though those can affect things at the margins. It's primarily a result of wages. $15/hour to a US factory worker vs. $1.19 for a Chinese factory worker is a pretty big gap to overcome, even considering transportation costs.

What are the standard of living costs of India and China compared to the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that American workers aren't worth paying for, even if it means making less profits for these companies overall. How can people spout Patriotism and then support it when jobs get sent overseas causing unemployment here to rise, just because here in America the standard of living is higher? I know that flies in the face of the profit maximization schemes that most companies are governed by these days to try to make as much money for their investors as possible, but taking jobs overseas and relying on other countries for our manufacturing puts us at a disadvantage long term. In fact, the long term consequences of that move are now-term imho. They've started to hit full force.

[cavymeister]

Give someone a bunch of money and no demand for labor, you won't create many jobs. If you have a large amount of demand for bodies, but not much money, you won't create many jobs.

You need both a demand for labor and the capital to pay that labor. Without both jobs won't be created.

[all pro]

So you want to punish the successful?

No I want to punish the greedy and the stingy. The successful people would be rewarded by receiving a pay check with no federal tax deducted from it.

[ZenBowman]

No I want to punish the greedy and the stingy. The successful people would be rewarded by receiving a pay check with no federal tax deducted from it.

Sounds like an idea all progressives should get behind.

[MFP90X]

The laffer curve no longer applies because we no longer have a manufacturing base. The entire tax code needs to be dumped and replaced. Capital gains tax for the wealthy and a consumption tax for everyone. Everything else needs to be dumped. Under that system if the company doesn't spend the money THEY GET TAXED! NO LOOP HOLES. Bring the jobs back, expand the company here and hire people, or we send the Brinks truck to your house escorted by M1 Abrams and relieve you of all of that filthy money cluttering up your safe.

I've heard people talk about a consumption tax, but can someone elaborate on how it would work? Are we talking, effectively, a federal sales tax?

[all pro]

Sounds like an idea all progressives should get behind.

Progressives are the ones that brought the 16th amendment into existence. They will never support doing away with the wage tax.

[all pro]

I've heard people talk about a consumption tax, but can someone elaborate on how it would work? Are we talking, effectively, a federal sales tax?

Yup, that's exactly what it is. But the only way to make it work is to institute it with ZERO exemptions and to charge it every single time an item changes hands. Anything else will result in massive corruption and make it imposable to police.