Did God Know THAT ADAM AND EVE WOULD SIN?

[Godfrd824]

Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God is afraid of humans, and that's sad. And who is us? Usually, when someone has children, they want the children to become better than themselves, but not God.

[HopingInJehovah]

I haven't the slightest clue as to why you God would kill a woman for looking at a city or commit genocide in Egypt out of spite. Maybe he's just a jerk like that?

Then it would be beneficial for you to do some research, or perhaps, better, have a bible study. We offer these free of charge.

[HopingInJehovah]

Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God is afraid of humans, and that's sad. And who is us? Usually, when someone has children, they want the children to become better than themselves, but not God.

Good questions, very fair. However, we are getting of course from the op. If you want to discuss these issues, then create another thread on it.

[Harbinger]

What this thread boils down to is that god is only omniscient, when it makes a good excuse.

[AKR]

He didn't know. He chose to wait it out. As far as punishing people for what they cannot control, this is a cop out for ones who wish to do what is wrong. However, Jehovah has provided a way out for ALL of mankind (Adam's offspring) to redeem themselves and attain everlasting life. He did this immediately after Adam and Eve committed the act of disobedience (Genesis 3:15).

In the future AKR, please refrain from the foul language, it''s extremely offensive to me. I would greatly appreciate it. It also makes a person look younger than what they are. It's no way in conversing with reasonable people.

I don't really give a f*ck if it's offensive to you. Your religion is offensive to me. The idea of some crazy alien creating everyone and then torturing them for the way he created them is offensive to me. And if swearing makes me look younger, f*ck yeah!

You did nothing to explain how we have free will. As usual, the free will crowd just says "we have it, and you're just saying that so you can sin." That's an ad hominem and not an explanation of how we have free will. You can not operate independent of your biological processes that were not set in motion by yourself.


We can see how physically touching the brain or using electricity or chemicals can change a person's thought patterns and behavior, and we can see how people born with a different brain structure behave and think differently, so there is no reason to believe that there is some magical part of humans that is actually responsible for our consciousness or actions. It really makes no sense. It's like looking at a car engine, seeing how the vehicle either doesn't work or does work based on the condition and structure of the engine, and then, concluding that even though everything seems to be dependent on this physical engine, there are actually invisible gnomes powering the vehicle, and they just happened to act different when you change things about the engine.

Your own religion says there's no free will:

Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.

[HopingInJehovah]

I don't really give a [childish, disrespectful, explicative] if it's offensive to you. Your religion is offensive to me. The idea of some crazy alien creating everyone and then torturing them for the way he created them is offensive to me. And if swearing makes me look younger, [Another childish, disrespectful, explicative] yeah!

You did nothing to explain how we have free will. As usual, the free will crowd just says "we have it, and you're just saying that so you can sin." That's an ad hominem and not an explanation of how we have free will. You can not operate independent of your biological processes that were not set in motion by yourself.


We can see how physically touching the brain or using electricity or chemicals can change a person's thought patterns and behavior, and we can see how people born with a different brain structure behave and think differently, so there is no reason to believe that there is some magical part of humans that is actually responsible for our consciousness or actions. It really makes no sense. It's like looking at a car engine, seeing how the vehicle either doesn't work or does work based on the condition and structure of the engine, and then, concluding that even though everything seems to be dependent on this physical engine, there are actually invisible gnomes powering the vehicle, and they just happened to act different when you change things about the engine.

Your own religion says there's no free will:

I'm sorry you feel that way. You are on ignore. Don't ever respond to me again. Got it?

[AKR]

I'm sorry you feel that way. You are on ignore. Don't ever respond to me again. Got it?

It's funny you call me immature, but you can't even handle a few naughty words. But hey, nothing offensive about a religion that promotes slavery, genocide, infanticide, and other crazy crap.

[tehzeus]

It's simple if god is all knowing then it knew what was going to happen before it created anything.

[GoJu]

So, they believe in God, yet at the same time believe that ToE is responsible for life? If they don't believe in Adam and Eve, then they reject God's Holy Word the bible. If so, that is one big error on their part. Are you sure this is their beliefs?

The TOE is not responsible for the diversity of life, they think God is the guiding hand behind evolution, yes I'm sure I used to be a Catholic. Catholics do not believe the bible is to be taken literally, most of it is metaphor for them; they also rightly accept that there is no real science in the bible.

[BeefyMcNasty]

Then it would be beneficial for you to do some research, or perhaps, better, have a bible study. We offer these free of charge.

If you want to play this game, fine. I know why your bible claims God did those things. And those reasons don't cut it. There is not a single acceptable reason for your God to have killed that many innocent people, simple as that.

[HopingInJehovah]

The TOE is not responsible for the diversity of life, they think God is the guiding hand behind evolution, yes I'm sure I used to be a Catholic. Catholics do not believe the bible is to be taken literally, most of it is metaphor for them; they also rightly accept that there is no real science in the bible.

Christians take the bible literally. If Catholics don't, then they need to do some research. There are metaphors, illustrations, etc embedded in the bible. However, when one studies it from cover to cover, those techniques are easily explained. Everyone uses those types of tactics when conversing in reasonable scenarios. That doesn't make the bible a fairy tell book.

[HopingInJehovah]

If you want to play this game, fine. I know why your bible claims God did those things. And those reasons don't cut it. There is not a single acceptable reason for your God to have killed that many innocent people, simple as that.

I'm not playing a game, BMN, this is serious buss. It's your life. That's how we view it. Christians don't get paid for this work, it's done out of our love for people. If those reasons don't cut it, so be it. It's your choice, your life at stake. Jehovah is extending His hand, by inviting ALL peoples to come to a realization of what is coming to mankind. I hope you will listen, instead of bucking what could mean your life. It's up to you.

[HopingInJehovah]

It's simple if god is all knowing then it knew what was going to happen before it created anything.

Having the capability of being all knowing, doesn't mean the individual (Jehovah) has to exercise that ability. The bible is plain on this.

[GoJu]

Christians take the bible literally. If Catholics don't, then they need to do some research. There are metaphors, illustrations, etc embedded in the bible. However, when one studies it from cover to cover, those techniques are easily explained. Everyone uses those types of tactics when conversing in reasonable scenarios. That doesn't make the bible a fairy tell book.

Well they obviously take literally the God created the universe and that Jesus is his Son, that Jesus lived, suffered, died and was resurrected for the sins of the world, etc etc. They are for all intents and purposes creationists but they accept that God used evolution to make the diversity of life we see and God used the big bang to create the universe etc etc. Literal interpretation of Genesis is absolutely at odds with accepted science and is the same as a fairy tale.

[Z0mgZ0rs]

ITT: People using logic to debate about an illogical, fictitious religion.

[HopingInJehovah]

Well they obviously take literally the God created the universe and that Jesus is his Son, that Jesus lived, suffered, died and was resurrected for the sins of the world, etc etc. They are for all intents and purposes creationists but they accept that God used evolution to make the diversity of life we see and God used the big bang to create the universe etc etc. Literal interpretation of Genesis is absolutely at odds with accepted science and is the same as a fairy tale.

Well, most of this is good to hear. However, if they don't take the Genesis account literally, then they have some research to do. God doesn't say how/what technique He used to get the ball rolling, unless you can show me in the bible. The fossil record does indeed correspond with the account in Genesis. However, that's another thread.

[HopingInJehovah]

So you haven't actually shown that God didn't know. You've just used passages stating Gods love and speculated that God did not use foreknowledge at that time.


Some thought's.

What does God get out of this? He creates us, gives us life etc... What does he get?

What about Abraham?

[GoJu]

The fossil record does indeed correspond with the account in Genesis.

No, no it doesn't.

[BeefyMcNasty]

I'm not playing a game, BMN, this is serious buss. It's your life. That's how we view it. Christians don't get paid for this work, it's done out of our love for people. If those reasons don't cut it, so be it. It's your choice, your life at stake. Jehovah is extending His hand, by inviting ALL peoples to come to a realization of what is coming to mankind. I hope you will listen, instead of bucking what could mean your life. It's up to you.

Did he extend his hand to all the innocent children he murdered?

[HopingInJehovah]

Did he extend his hand to all the innocent children he murdered?

How may times do I have to say, this is another thread. If you wish to discus this issue, create the thread for it. However, *LOL*, He has the power to bring them back if they deserve it. Do you?

[HopingInJehovah]

No, no it doesn't.

Prove it!

[GoJu]

Prove it!

You're the one making the claim....

[JAGERBOY]

Some good points. He gets nothing. That's the whole point. It's out of unconditional love that He created us, so that we could enjoy life. The only thing He gets is what you and I receive when we feel the love from another human being. And I mean genuine love, not fake or conditional. That was/is His only reason for creating us. This is why we are unique compared to ALL the other living things, inanimate/animate.

So he did it for his own personal and greedy psychological benefit, got it.

[HopingInJehovah]

So he did it for his own personal and greedy psychological benefit, got it.

How on God's green planet, did you ascertain this view? He didn't even have to create us, JAGERBOY. What are you talking about?

[HopingInJehovah]

You're the one making the claim....

And?.....You need to prove it wrong if you disagree. Show me my error in another thread, instead of derailing the op. I would greatly appreciate it.

[GoJu]

And?.....You need to prove it wrong if you disagree. Show me my error in another thread, instead of derailing the op. I would greatly appreciate it.

You're the one making the claim so you have to prove to the one who disagrees, that's how shyte works.

[HopingInJehovah]

You're the one making the claim so you have to prove to the one who disagrees, that's how [unnecessary explicative, please learn how to express yourself, respectfully] works.

I have in the appropriate threads. This thread is whether or not Jehovah UTILIZES HIS POWERS SELECTIVELY.

[JAGERBOY]

How on God's green planet, did you ascertain this view? He didn't even have to create us, JAGERBOY. What are you talking about?

Exactly. So you can't say he did it FOR us, since we didn't even exist. Had we never been created we would have never known we weren't created. So he had to do it for someone that already existed before our creation....himself.

[HopingInJehovah]

Exactly. So you can't say he did it FOR us, since we didn't even exist. Had we never been created we would have never known we weren't created. So he had to do it for someone that already existed before our creation....himself.

Well, actually, the bible says He did it for His son, Christ Jesus (Michael the arc Angel). However, riddle me this: Do you enjoy being alive?

[GoJu]

I have in the appropriate threads. This thread is whether or not Jehovah UTILIZES HIS POWERS SELECTIVELY.

Jehovah can't turn off omnipotence, he can't turn off omniscience, he can't turn off omnipresence; you're playing with words to make the bible say what you want it to.