Did God Know THAT ADAM AND EVE WOULD SIN?

[BeefyMcNasty]

Well, as far as we know, it wasn't an apple. The bible doesn't say what kind of fruit it was. The whole point was obedience. It was a simple test to see if Adam and Eve would be obedient to Him. There were tons of other types of trees to eat from, not to mention a wide variety of other types of food. Why did they have to eat from that ONE cotton picken tree?

So god didn't do it for any reason other than to be a dick? Why did god need to test them if he is all powerful and all knowing?

[GoJu]

Well, as far as we know, it wasn't an apple. The bible doesn't say what kind of fruit it was. The whole point was obedience. It was a simple test to see if Adam and Eve would be obedient to Him. There were tons of other types of trees to eat from, not to mention a wide variety of other types of food. Why did they have to eat from that ONE cotton picken tree?

He could've just not made the damn tree in the first place and the devil would have nothing to tempt eve with.

[Fenrisulfr22]

he set them up to fail. also note that in the biblical account the serpent tells the truth and god doesn't. Having no knowledge of good or evil, they cannot be faulted for their mistake. God told them they would die that very day if they consumed the fruit; they didn't. they lived for 900 more years. The serpent told them they would gain knowledge, and they did. Absolutely ridiculous story. You can't even read the first two chapters of the bible without seeing just how ridiculous it is.

[pianoforte]

The whole point was obedience. It was a simple test to see if Adam and Eve would be obedient to Him.

Hi, if it was a test then that means there would be a result. As God is omnipotent then he knows the outcome before it has happened, he is alll-knowing as mentioned numerous times in the Bible. What was the point of the test if he knows the result already?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

[Harbinger]

He could've just not made the damn tree in the first place and the devil would have nothing to tempt eve with.

Its just a story to demonstrate that disobedience to god has catastrophic results. We all know that Adam and Eve never really existed. I know most of us are aware of this but, maybe HIJ isn't.

[GoJu]

Its just a story to demonstrate that disobedience to god has catastrophic results. We all know that Adam and Eve never really existed. I know most of us are aware of this but, maybe HIJ isn't.

I don't think HopinginJehovah knows that....

[AKR]

I didn't bother to read the article because it's irrelevant. Even if god chose to not know what they were going to do, it doesn't mean they have free will. A designer's knowledge is irrelevant to whether or not it's design will be one capable of free will. Free will is simply an impossible concept because you can't not design yourself, and therefore, really have no control over what ultimately leads to your actions. It just makes god a bigger dick if he punishes people for things they can't control, and he's even worse if he creates someone to do something he knows they're going to do, and then, punishes them for it.

[HopingInJehovah]

It's really simple, either God knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen in which case there is no free will; or God does not know things with absolute certainty in which there some practical level of free will. Also an omnibenevolent God would know that Eve was deceived by the devil either way so he wouldn't have blamed them for what he did and he wouldn't have blamed Adam and Eve's children for what they (did not) do.

Sometimes, a paragraph just isn't enough. When I use to lift, I was fairly strong (max bench 450lbs at 185lbs). However, I very rarely did indeed bench that when I went to the gym. Most of the time I chose not too. Did that mean I couldn't bench 450lbs?

Eve is pointed out to have been deceived in the bible (Genesis !1 Timothy 2:14; 2 Cor. 11:3). Yet, Adam was not. He went along with his wife, for unknown reasons. We suspect it was his strong love for Eve as to why he did so, however the bible doesn't say. It wasn't Jehovah's fault that the two of them chose to disobey. Isn't it possible Jehovah can select to use His powers when He see's fit? Why does He have to exercise those powers every awakening moment of His existence? I don't understand how that would negate the fact He does indeed have said powers. If you read the article it points out why Jehovah tempers when to use those said qualities.

Just because Eve was deceived, doesn't excuse her choice to disobey. My children go thru the same experiences. When they are deceived, yet disobey, I still met out punishment for said disobedience. Jehovah forewarned Adam what the consequences was for disobeying in regards to eating from the forbidden tree. He knew full well death would be the outcome. If Adam would have chose not to go along with Eve, he would have remained alive. I could understand your point, if Jehovah would have NOT warned them in advance what the consequences were going to be.

Why didn't Jehovah execute them on the spot? He had the right to do so. Let me know what you think about this question.

[HopingInJehovah]

I didn't bother to read the article because it's irrelevant. Even if god chose to not know what they were going to do, it doesn't mean they have free will. A designer's knowledge is irrelevant to whether or not it's design will be one capable of free will. Free will is simply an impossible concept because you can't not design yourself, and therefore, really have no control over what ultimately leads to your actions. It just makes god a bigger [explicative] if he punishes people for things they can't control, and he's even worse if he creates someone to do something he knows they're going to do, and then, punishes them for it.

He didn't know. He chose to wait it out. As far as punishing people for what they cannot control, this is a cop out for ones who wish to do what is wrong. However, Jehovah has provided a way out for ALL of mankind (Adam's offspring) to redeem themselves and attain everlasting life. He did this immediately after Adam and Eve committed the act of disobedience (Genesis 3:15).

In the future AKR, please refrain from the foul language, it''s extremely offensive to me. I would greatly appreciate it. It also makes a person look younger than what they are. It's no way in conversing with reasonable people.

[HopingInJehovah]

Its just a story to demonstrate that disobedience to god has catastrophic results. We all know that Adam and Eve never really existed. I know most of us are aware of this but, maybe HIJ isn't.

Well, this thread may not be for you. There are 7,000,000 + Jehovah Witnesses that disagree with you. Also, worldwide there are tons more of folks that also disagree with you.

[Harbinger]

Well, this thread may not be for you. There are 7,000,000 + Jehovah Witnesses that disagree with you. Also, worldwide there are tons more of folks that also disagree with you.

This is the JW's idea of what Adam and Eve looked like!!!
LOFUKINGL

[GoJu]

Sometimes, a paragraph just isn't enough. When I use to lift, I was fairly strong (max bench 450lbs at 185lbs). However, I very rarely did indeed bench that when I went to the gym. Most of the time I chose not too. Did that mean I couldn't bench 450lbs?

Eve is pointed out to have been deceived in the bible (Genesis !1 Timothy 2:14; 2 Cor. 11:3). Yet, Adam was not. He went along with his wife, for unknown reasons. We suspect it was his strong love for Eve as to why he did so, however the bible doesn't say. It wasn't Jehovah's fault that the two of them chose to disobey. Isn't it possible Jehovah can select to use His powers when He see's fit? Why does He have to exercise those powers every awakening moment of His existence? I don't understand how that would negate the fact He does indeed have said powers. If you read the article it points out why Jehovah tempers when to use those said qualities.

Just because Eve was deceived, doesn't excuse her choice to disobey. My children go thru the same experiences. When they are deceived, yet disobey, I still met out punishment for said disobedience. Jehovah forewarned Adam what the consequences was for disobeying in regards to eating from the forbidden tree. He knew full well death would be the outcome. If Adam would have chose not to go along with Eve, he would have remained alive. I could understand your point, if Jehovah would have NOT warned them in advance what the consequences were going to be.

Why didn't Jehovah execute them on the spot? He had the right to do so. Let me know what you think about this question.

First of all lets nip this immoral crap that God has the right to do whatever he wants because he's God. He did not have the right to execute Adam and Eve, and he doesn't have the right to judge, execute, etc anyone. This analogy with God as some sort of parental authority figure fails because say if my parents beat me and their only excuse was that they their my parents and they can do what they want. Well that's completely immoral, and that's essentially what you're saying God's excuse is, and it's a terrible one.

Eve being deceived is exactly what should excuse her from disobeying God, it isn't her fault that she came into contact with the damn devil. So what if he warned them? And no God can't turn off his omnipresence, that's one of the more stupid apologetics I've heard even sillier than your cloud thing in the other thread. He can use his powers when he sees fit but he's omnipresent and omniscient than that means he's constantly aware and present of what is going on in existence, there's no good reason for him to turn it off if it's a part of his nature. The very definition of omnipotence when related to god implies God can do all things consistent with his nature and he cannot do all things inconsistent with his nature, so turning off his omnipresence would be something he can't do.

So yes, unless you say God is not omnipresent and not omniscient, the fall of man is ultimately his fault because he saw it coming and didn't do anything about it.

[GoJu]

Well, this thread may not be for you. There are 7,000,000 + Jehovah Witnesses that disagree with you. Also, worldwide there are tons more of folks that also disagree with you.

There are 1,000,000,000+ Catholics that disagree with you.

Inb4 Catholocism isn't Christianity.

[HopingInJehovah]

Hi, if it was a test then that means there would be a result. As God is omnipotent then he knows the outcome before it has happened, he is alll-knowing as mentioned numerous times in the Bible. What was the point of the test if he knows the result already?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Yes, pianoforte, He CAN be all-knowing, however the bible shows that He uses His powers reasonably. Why can't He choose not to know an particular event before hand? Wouldn't that take His freedom of choice away?

[GoJu]

Yes, pianoforte, He CAN be all-knowing, however the bible shows that He uses His powers reasonably. Why can't He choose not to know an particular event before hand? Wouldn't that take His freedom of choice away?

You're making excuses and playing with words so the bible says what you want it to again. God takes away freedom of choice plenty of times in the bible.

[HopingInJehovah]

There are 1,000,000,000+ Catholics that disagree with you.

Inb4 Catholocism isn't Christianity.

Huh? I didn't know they disagree with the exientence of Adam and Eve, or Jehovah? Can you show me where they claim this?

[HopingInJehovah]

You're making excuses and playing with words so the bible says what you want it to again. God takes away freedom of choice plenty of times in the bible.

Freedom of choice, does have limitations. And thank, Jehovah for that. Could you imagine what would happen if you allowed people to act on their every impulse? Even Jehovah limits His free will.

[GoJu]

Huh? I didn't know they disagree with the exientence of Adam and Eve, or Jehovah? Can you show me where they claim this?

Obviously Catholics believe in god, they accept evolution for the fact that it is and realize the Adam and Eve story is just a metaphor and never factually happened.

[HopingInJehovah]

Obviously Catholics believe in god, they accept evolution for the fact that it is and realize the Adam and Eve story is just a metaphor and never factually happened.

So, they believe in God, yet at the same time believe that ToE is responsible for life? If they don't believe in Adam and Eve, then they reject God's Holy Word the bible. If so, that is one big error on their part. Are you sure this is their beliefs?

[Harbinger]

the bible shows that He uses His powers reasonably.

Just where does the bible show us that?

Why can't He choose not to know an particular event before hand? Wouldn't that take His freedom of choice away?

Because it doesn't support your argument if he can't.

[HopingInJehovah]

So yes, unless you say God is not omnipresent and not omniscient, the fall of man is ultimately his fault because he saw it coming and didn't do anything about it.

No sir, this is how YOU feel about it. The bible clearly shows otherwise. Christians adapt the teachings of Christ, thereby molding our lives to what Jesus taught via his example. So, Christians, try their very best to follow his example, without allowing our OWN feelings to intercede.

[HopingInJehovah]

Just where does the bible show us that?



Because it doesn't support your argument if he can't.

Well, the article I posted gives you some insight into this, did you read it? It's not my argument, it's the bibles view. You can't expect Jehovah to do what YOU feel is appropriate. He is by far superior to you. Christians go by the example of His dear son Christ Jesus as best we can. We don't go by what we FEEL.

[Harbinger]

Well, the article I posted gives you some insight into this, did you read it? It's not my argument, it's the bibles view. You can't expect Jehovah to do what YOU feel is appropriate. He is by far superior to you. Christians go by the example of His dear son Christ Jesus as best we can. We don't go by what we FEEL.

No he's not, I'd never wipe out the entire population of a planet because some of them pissed me off. Of course we all know a global flood didn't really happen either right?

[BeefyMcNasty]

He is by far superior to you.

Nope. I haven't massacred 2,000,000+ people, but according to the bible, your God has.

[HopingInJehovah]

So god didn't do it for any reason other than to be a [EXPLICATIVE]? Why did god need to test them if he is all powerful and all knowing?

Who doesn't run test? Are you saying humans don't do the same.

In the future, please refrain from using foul language. It's not the reasonable way to communicate. Not to mention how it makes a person look immature.

[HopingInJehovah]

No he's not, I'd never wipe out the entire population of a planet because some of them pissed me off. right?

Christains disagree, again. You are going by how YOU feel as an IMPERFECT human. Are your ways perfect?

Of course we all know a global flood didn't really happen either.

This was not the theme of the thread, if you wish to discuss this issue, then by all means create another thread on it.

[BeefyMcNasty]

Who doesn't run test? Are you saying humans don't do the same.

In the future, please refrain from using foul language. It's not the reasonable way to communicate. Not to mention how it makes a person look immature.

Yes, humans run tests, because humans are fallible. Are you saying your God is fallible? An omnipotent God wouldn't need to do tests.

And I'll use whatever language I deem necessary.

[HopingInJehovah]

Nope. I haven't massacred 2,000,000+ people, but according to the bible, your God has.

For what reason?

[HopingInJehovah]

Yes, humans run tests, because humans are fallible. Are you saying your God is fallible? An omnipotent God wouldn't need to do tests.

And I'll use whatever language I deem necessary.

Then don't use it in my thread, it shows immaturity.

Read the article in regards to your other comment.

[BeefyMcNasty]

For what reason?

I haven't the slightest clue as to why your God would kill a woman for looking at a city or commit genocide in Egypt out of spite. Maybe he's just a jerk like that?

Then don't use it in my thread, it shows immaturity.

That's a matter of opinion. I submit that it has it's place to show disdain or other passionate emotions.