Opinions on welfare?

[Tekkendo]

I was a bit surprised to read this morning at how much the welfare state has expanded over the last couple years. The economy is hurting but at the same time this is unfortunately an area of government that politicians can use in the pursuit of votes.

"Why Marriage Preserves More Perfect Union"

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...fect-Union.htm

excerpt:

"Most Americans are unaware that about $700 billion a year of federal taxpayers' money is handed out to nontaxpayers who are allegedly below the poverty line (in addition to $250 billion a year given out by the states). After Barack Obama became president, he increased federal welfare spending by a third because, as he promised during his campaign, he wants to "spread the wealth," knowing that increasing welfare spending promotes dependence on government and votes for the Democrats.

This federal welfare apparatus consists of 69 means-tested programs: 12 programs providing food, 10 for housing assistance, 10 for social services, nine for educational assistance, eight programs giving cash, eight for vocational training, seven for medical assistance, three for energy and utility assistance and two for child care and child development.

What is now called the hidden welfare state (because so few Americans know about its enormity) is the fastest-growing component of government spending, and this does not include Social Security or Medicare payments. The total of these means-tested handouts is greater than what we are paying for our entire public school system and greater than what we spend on national defense..."

That there is the Democrat's masterplan to a permanent majority. Expand the number of people that depend on handout. They will vote you back into office to steal for them.

They dont want to lift people out of welfare. They want more people hooked on welfare, b/c that expands their voting block.


Democrats destroy people.

[Stuffnblue]

If you remove welfare, what would the people who depend on it do to replace the money and food assistance?

[Tekkendo]

If you remove welfare, what would the people who depend on it do to replace the money and food assistance?

Do it the way they do it in Australia. Train you for jobs. If you don't take the job they train you for, they cut you off.

[BFast55]

If you remove welfare, what would the people who depend on it do to replace the money and food assistance?

Isn't the point of welfare supposed to be temporary relief until the recipient can get their chit together?

[Bnk]

If you remove welfare, what would the people who depend on it do to replace the money and food assistance?

They would be forced to get jobs.

[Wtf?]

2) prove that you are spending at least 6-8 hours actually going out looking for work every day. as in, going to the companies and having someone sign off that you dropped a resume there or inquired.

Eh, it's not unemployment benefits. It's basically benefits because you're poor and a loser for whatever reason. Single moms with 2+kids are usually on it.

i have a friend on this ****...all he does is smoke weed all day and make up bull**** to keep getting assistance. he doesn't even spend 5 minutes looking and no one calls him out.

You in Canada ? lol I've heard of this before there. Druggies on it. Never known of a guy collecting Welfare, it's almost always single moms or dirt poor families. Druggy men usually collect SSDI for mental disorders. SSDI is more of a problem than Welfare.

[markymark69]

I'm talking about the long run it will save us money, not in 1 week. It will eliminate the "welfare lifers" that don't need it so I don't care if we even broke even.

Florida has a 48mo statutory limit on welfare. You would know that if you were educated or knew how to google.

So...those 'welfare lifers' only exist in your mind. Unlike the less educated on this forum, I usually trouble myself to do a quick back check on facts around an issue.
Florida's welfare program is called: Work and Gain Economic Self-Sufficiency. Its been in place for about 16yrs.

It places a 48mo cumulative limit on benefits and it requires recipients to engage work related activities, keep their kids in school, etc.

I have discussed TANF on this forum more than once, yet, uneducated idiots such as Dragger insist on perpetuating misinformation. Im sure he will come back with 'I know some guy that has been on welfare for 10yrs and all he does is smoke dope and sell drugs and drives a benz. Uneducated people love to rely on anecdotal evidence.

[Stuffnblue]

Do it the way they do it in Australia. Train you for jobs. If you don't take the job they train you for, they cut you off.

Isn't the point of welfare supposed to be temporary relief until the recipient can get their chit together?

They would be forced to get jobs.

over 50 million americans collect a type of welfare

what jobs do you give them?

if we assume some of them have a job and still get assistance, they will need a second job or a bump in pay

[BruceBruce325]

system is flawed like anything else the government puts out.

should be scrapped and find better solutions.

most of the money goes to this and other entitlements.

[GordonAkman]

I'm happy for welfare to go to people who really need it to survive particularly women and children but I'll tell you what I don't like. In Australia our social security provider/government department is Centrelink. If you type the letter "c" into Google and have auto complete on it will bring up the word "centrelink". Now that's ****ed man. Seriously. That's just ****ed.

[Solais]

I actually work in as a substance abuse counselor in Florida so let me tell you what I see. If you cut the support (which someone has mentioned TANF funds are limited) where do these people go? They don't just vanish and die. They will fight to survive. They will rob, burgle, etc. Once people get really desperate that's when the **** hits the fan.

Where are all these magical jobs at? Let's scrap assistance because a small portion abuse it. Just be honest and say you don't give a **** about other people and I could respect your beliefs.

The problem is systemic. These ******* doctors are giving out pain meds like candy, so eventually your grandma comes to me for help when originally her hip just hurt. Most of the users aren't on welfare. I sit through financial screenings all the time.

[iamnotbeta]

drug test thing won't work......


also 6-8 hours? what if the person has a kid or two what do you expect them to do?

[YARDGORILLA]

I actually work in as a substance abuse counselor in Florida so let me tell you what I see. If you cut the support (which someone has mentioned TANF funds are limited) where do these people go? They don't just vanish and die. They will fight to survive. They will rob, burgle, etc. Once people get really desperate that's when the **** hits the fan.

Where are all these magical jobs at? Let's scrap assistance because a small portion abuse it. Just be honest and say you don't give a **** about other people and I could respect your beliefs.

The problem is systemic. These ******* doctors are giving out pain meds like candy, so eventually your grandma comes to me for help when originally her hip just hurt. Most of the users aren't on welfare. I sit through financial screenings all the time.

Pill Mills FTW!

Dr. Amy...............

[Tekkendo]

over 50 million americans collect a type of welfare

what jobs do you give them?

if we assume some of them have a job and still get assistance, they will need a second job or a bump in pay

Ask obama. He got shovel ready jobs for them. What happened with Obama's Stimulus package that costed the taxpayer around $800 mils?

There is another thread talking about farms cannot get workers.

[lowkey122]

Where are all these magical jobs at? Let's scrap assistance because a small portion abuse it. Just be honest and say you don't give a **** about other people and I could respect your beliefs.

Eliminating Welfare benefits doesn't suggest the lack of compassion, it simply removes the gubmint from the equation. If taxpayers weren't forced to pay for welfare and countless other programs that could be done away with, those taxpayers have more money and direct control over which cause they'd like to donate to, if they so choose. People know in their local community who really needs assistance and who doesn't.

[Patrick-Bateman]

Where does this retarded notion come from that welfare recipients are living the high life on food stamps and government assisted housing?

Anyone who argues for the abolition of welfare in favor of private charity has probably never had meaningful contact with the poor in any way. I have through legal defense clinics, and almost all of our clients were destitute, uneducated, and supporting multiple children, and many also suffered from a medical or learning disability. Without federal aid, almost all of them would be homeless or in substantially worse living conditions. With 1 in 7 American households not putting enough food on the table each week, private charities do not have even a fraction of the resources necessary to address the problem, and furthermore, there is often little oversight over how charities spend their donations.

Welfare provides a necessary social safety net. Without it you would see a huge increase in crime and there would be massive slumtowns like in Latin America.

couple changes i think would help:
1) mandatory drug/alcohol test weekly

Cool story bro. Florida's GOP Governor Rick Scott ordered this, only for the results to show that 98% of welfare recipients were drug-free. It was a colossal waste of time and money.

[Tekkendo]

/..
Cool story bro. Florida's GOP Governor Rick Scott ordered this, only for the results to show that 98% of welfare recipients were drug-free. It was a colossal waste of time and money.

98% drug free? cool story on you, cuz you didnt read the find print there. u might want to check how many refused to take the test.

[Patrick-Bateman]

98% drug free? cool story on you, cuz you didnt read the find print there. u might want to check how many refused to take the test.

Yes, because every person who declined to take the test is a drug-user. Or maybe they actually find it a violation of their civil rights? And it seems that a US District Judge agrees with them, writing in her opinion ordering a temporary injunction that the mandatory tests are likely an illegal search under the Fourth Amendment.

[Tekkendo]

Yes, because every person who declined to take the test is a drug-user. Or maybe they actually find it a violation of their civil rights? And it seems that a US District Judge agrees with them, writing in her opinion ordering a temporary injunction that the mandatory tests are likely an illegal search under the Fourth Amendment.

Nice try at weaselling out your 98% drug free claim. lol

Your 98% claim is still BOGUS.

[Patrick-Bateman]

Nice try at weaselling out your 98% drug free claim. lol

Your 98% claim is still BOGUS.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/2...ng-halted.html

[Trigger543]

What would you do if someone tested positive for drugs/alcohol abuse?

Personally I would introduce mandatory community service rather than proving they are looking for a job. Everyone complains about illegal immigration but they do jobs Americans won't do. Well there is a cheaper workforce available that is already getting paid by the state. Companies could apply for welfare assistance and get free labour.

So if you apply for welfare instead of handing you a check for no reason, they actually make you work for it... when are you running for president, you've got my vote.

[Tekkendo]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/2...ng-halted.html

old news. Its already ITT. We covered all that already.

You just lack the basic integrity and honesty to admit that your 98% claim is bogus and misleading.

[Sodao]

of course if you don't want to be tested that means that you are instantly added to the 100% confirmed drug user statistic...no, it couldn't mean that you don't want to be tested.

[Tekkendo]

of course if you don't want to be tested that means that you are instantly added to the 100% confirmed drug user statistic...no, it couldn't mean that you don't want to be tested.

sure thing brah. i bet'cha they r all proud libertarians too..

[BFast55]

over 50 million americans collect a type of welfare

what jobs do you give them?

if we assume some of them have a job and still get assistance, they will need a second job or a bump in pay

So you are giving us a choice to either give them our money or a job? Why is it that multiple generations of people can't seem to quit collecting welfare? It was designed as a temporary safety net. But that is not what it is being used for. Eventually you have to allow for the individual to become responsible for their decisions. 95% of things that happen in life are a direct result to decisions you make.

Not everybody gets the same start, but tough $hit. That is harsh, but its reality.

[Bnk]

Yes, because every person who declined to take the test is a drug-user. Or maybe they actually find it a violation of their civil rights? And it seems that a US District Judge agrees with them, writing in her opinion ordering a temporary injunction that the mandatory tests are likely an illegal search under the Fourth Amendment.

lmao....sure, they were all taking a political stance.

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[markymark69]

lmao....sure, they were all taking a political stance.

Of course they were not.

Just like when you refuse to let the police come in and search your house without a search warrant at 2am. You have something to hide.

[IronRooster2]

They would be forced to get jobs.

How does tripling the unemployment rate and reducing consumption double the number of jobs there are for people?

Additionally stuffing nonviolent drug users into jail helps artificially depress the number of unemployed. Millions less people in competition for work.

Look at the sad people in this thread. Obsessed with "druggie" boogiemen. When they themselves probably get drunk every once in a while. "Nothing more needs reforming than the behavior of others." Way to support the drug war guys. Bank of America thanks you for all the money laundering you've provided them.

Now that's ****ed man. Seriously. That's just ****ed.

Well... it's better than back in the days you could google for "White people stole my car" and google would ask "did you mean "black people stole my car"?"

which cause they'd like to donate to

"I don't help other people, but I'm sure someone else will do it..."

of course if you don't want to be tested that means that you are instantly added to the 100% confirmed drug user statistic...no, it couldn't mean that you don't want to be tested.

What do you mean. I love it when some guy's staring at my penis while I'm peeing into a cup. Doesn't everyone feel this way?

[BusterBob77]

It is good to have a social safety net although too many people abuse it imo.