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  1. #1501
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    I wouldn't suggest using a mixed grip on sub-maximal weights unless you alternate hand position each set. Have the arms locked prior to initiating the movement and squeeze the lats tightly.
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  2. #1502
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    Originally Posted by waqas11 View Post
    Ahh i get what you mean!! These plates are the biggest at the gym, iv been using steppers but i got rid of the becuase i was recommended earlier in this thread to do so. I am already lifting barefooted. Would you say use the steppers?
    All this focus on deadlift form and you still do not have the basics down... no just learn to pull with the smaller plates... it will help you out of the hole when you join a real gym later.

    Your problems:

    1. Hips too high... squat down more are far as your can got without rolling off your heels, as you need heel drive. If you can't get your hips and ass deeper, work on hip mobility and 3rd world squats. This is the main source of all your issues.

    2. Back rounded. Just like the squat you need an arch in your lower back to prevent rounding of the middle and upper back.

    3. Shoulders not far enough back... stop leaning over the the bar you should be leaning/pulling back. Pull your shoulders and scapula back hard.

    4. Lose that bend in the elbow unless you want to tear a bicep 2 years from now when you are strong. Lock your elbow tight before you even grab the bar and keep it that way. This will be much easier when you are set correctly.
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    Originally Posted by SOJA View Post
    The **** would you lock your elbow for a squat?
    We are discussing his deadlift form. You are getting threads mixed up... we are talking squats in the other thread you and I are posting in back to back... this is deadlift.
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  4. #1504
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    Originally Posted by PerpetualMotion View Post
    I disagree on this. Back looks atrocious. It's completely curved. Check out the pics below.

    My two cent on the video, waqas.

    You're too hunched over the bar. To get the bar, first hinge at the hips until you can't keep a neutral spine. After that, bend your knees just enough until you can grab the bar. Here is what an awesome set up looks like (this is picture perfect):
    [im]http://elitepttc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DL-packing-the-neck.jpg[/img]

    Now this is yours:
    [IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/nwc9ie.png[/MG]

    You're more squatted down. You should be able to see the picture on your shirt. Back tight, chest up. Lead with your chest, not with your hips, which is why your movement looks like two different things.

    Those plates look smaller than regular 20kgs (45lbs). If those are the biggest your gym has then I recommend you take your shoes off and then slightly elevate the bar so you don't have to get down so low to reach the bar.

    Either way, no more rounding unless you want a messed up back.
    You're right, I didn't notice the lower back in the video.
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  5. #1505
    Body fat Aim 10% waqas11's Avatar
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    I have a problem with correct form of deadlift, i cant reach the bar if i lock my arms and if i dont use the steppers!! Im not going to give up! Shall i use the steppers till my flexibility improves?

    If i reach for the bar withoUt steppers and my shoes of i round my back.
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  6. #1506
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    Originally Posted by waqas11 View Post
    I have a problem with correct form of deadlift, i cant reach the bar if i lock my arms and if i dont use the steppers!! Im not going to give up! Shall i use the steppers till my flexibility improves?

    If i reach for the bar withoUt steppers and my shoes of i round my back.
    No spend the next week improving your flexibility and do it right. It shouldn't take you more than one week of serious daily flexbility work to be able to do it.
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    Body fat Aim 10% waqas11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    No spend the next week improving your flexibility and do it right. It shouldn't take you more than one week of serious daily flexbility work to be able to do it.
    Ok so ill strech quads, glutes, hips and hamstrings every time i get some free time. Is it mainly hamstrings that are tight?
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    Registered User Lvisaa2's Avatar
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    Or pull sumo.
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  9. #1509
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    Originally Posted by waqas11 View Post
    Ok so ill strech quads, glutes, hips and hamstrings every time i get some free time. Is it mainly hamstrings that are tight?
    Stretch all of those and do hip mobility squats and practice squating down low on your heels and resting there.
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    Stretch all of those and do hip mobility squats and practice squating down low on your heels and resting there.
    Thanks will do.
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  11. #1511
    Registered User FitnessCPA's Avatar
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    Hey Jason,

    You said that his hips were too high. But the set-up that PerpetualMotion posted shows a guy with much higher hips. So I'm just a little confused. I'm also trying to nail down my deadlift form.

    I start by putting my feet under the bar so the bar crosses the middle of my foot.

    Then I grab the bar, straighten my arms, and stick my butt up and out, keeping my natural back arch.

    The last step is bending my knees until my chins touch the bar. Then I start lifting.

    I got this from a Rippetoe video.

    I'll get a form video up here soon for you all to take a look at.
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  12. #1512
    Registered User jdjprimer19's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FitnessCPA View Post
    Hey Jason,

    You said that his hips were too high. But the set-up that PerpetualMotion posted shows a guy with much higher hips. So I'm just a little confused. I'm also trying to nail down my deadlift form.

    I start by putting my feet under the bar so the bar crosses the middle of my foot.

    Then I grab the bar, straighten my arms, and stick my butt up and out, keeping my natural back arch.

    The last step is bending my knees until my chins touch the bar. Then I start lifting.

    I got this from a Rippetoe video.

    I'll get a form video up here soon for you all to take a look at.
    Hip position is relatively unique to the individual.
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  13. #1513
    Banned JasonDB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FitnessCPA View Post
    Hey Jason,

    You said that his hips were too high. But the set-up that PerpetualMotion posted shows a guy with much higher hips. So I'm just a little confused. I'm also trying to nail down my deadlift form.

    I start by putting my feet under the bar so the bar crosses the middle of my foot.

    Then I grab the bar, straighten my arms, and stick my butt up and out, keeping my natural back arch.

    The last step is bending my knees until my chins touch the bar. Then I start lifting.

    I got this from a Rippetoe video.

    I'll get a form video up here soon for you all to take a look at.
    Hip depth is relative to your structure. His hips were too high, he needs to be lower with a different setup if he wants to deadlift in the manner he is deadlifting.
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  14. #1514
    Registered User FitnessCPA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    Hip depth is relative to your structure. His hips were too high, he needs to be lower with a different setup if he wants to deadlift in the manner he is deadlifting.
    Thanks. So in general, where are hips supposed to be? I know it's unique to the individual but is there a certain position we should be aiming for? Lowest position where back maintains natural arch, highest position where shoulders are over the bar, etc.?
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  15. #1515
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    Originally Posted by FitnessCPA View Post
    Thanks. So in general, where are hips supposed to be? I know it's unique to the individual but is there a certain position we should be aiming for? Lowest position where back maintains natural arch, highest position where shoulders are over the bar, etc.?
    Scapula over the bar.
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  16. #1516
    Registered User FitnessCPA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jdjprimer19 View Post
    Scapula over the bar.
    Yeah but can't you still move your hips up and down with your scapula staying over the bar?
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    Originally Posted by FitnessCPA View Post
    Yeah but can't you still move your hips up and down with your scapula staying over the bar?
    A couple inches, but if you go too high you will rock off your heels and lose your heel drive... you lose your heel drive and you can't even pull 90% of your max for a single off the floor.
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  18. #1518
    rainy day in pizzaville snrygo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FitnessCPA View Post
    Yeah but can't you still move your hips up and down with your scapula staying over the bar?
    Yep
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  19. #1519
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    A couple inches, but if you go too high you will rock off your heels and lose your heel drive... you lose your heel drive and you can't even pull 90% of your max for a single off the floor.
    That might be my problem - I have been struggling and maybe my heel drive is ****. I've been trying to keep my hips up high per Rippetoe, but maybe I need to drop them a little so the beginning of each rep is driven more from my legs - as it should be.
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  20. #1520
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    I say this every couple of pages, but I'll be damned if you people don't over analyze the **** outta every lift. You know how I learned to deadlift? I watched a video or two and learned basic form then I did it. I didn't do it once or twice. I did it set after set, session after session until I could step up and pull. There are certain cues for a lift, but if you think reading words on a page is going to translate to magically getting a lift then you aren't being realistic. Get under the bar and do it. There are tons of variations on every lift and the only way to figure out what works for you is to do it. Get the BASICS, then do it.

    Worrying about the tiniest detail seems like mental clusterfluffing to me, especially when your strength numbers don't warrant you worrying about the tiniest details. Most of the minute details are for optimization of power and not safety, be safe and worry about the little details when you are actually pushing weight.
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    I've learned that the most important part of a heavy deadlift is pulling really really really hard. All my pr's have come when I pull really really really hard. But I also spent a bit of time learning what a good pull felt like (giggity) and now it's not even a thought.
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    I agree with that. I just did deadlifts today. I'm not trying to overanalyze. I'm just trying to learn more about a lift that I've been struggling with. But nothing here is going to replace me getting over the bar and lifting it and I realize that. Just looking for some tips is all.
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    Originally Posted by Lvisaa2 View Post
    I say this every couple of pages, but I'll be damned if you people don't over analyze the **** outta every lift. You know how I learned to deadlift? I watched a video or two and learned basic form then I did it. I didn't do it once or twice. I did it set after set, session after session until I could step up and pull. There are certain cues for a lift, but if you think reading words on a page is going to translate to magically getting a lift then you aren't being realistic. Get under the bar and do it. There are tons of variations on every lift and the only way to figure out what works for you is to do it. Get the BASICS, then do it.

    Worrying about the tiniest detail seems like mental clusterfluffing to me, especially when your strength numbers don't warrant you worrying about the tiniest details. Most of the minute details are for optimization of power and not safety, be safe and worry about the little details when you are actually pushing weight.
    While I agree with you and I feel the same way about a squat... I used the same technique on my 585 squat that I used the first time I hit 315... I can't imagine anyone ever having problems with a squat or the amount of squat advice I must give as it is the most natural lift in the world and a textbook perfect squat should be doable by anyone their first time lifting weights if they just feel their body a little bit.... however these individual lifts are not like that for everyone. Sometimes people do not know their body well enough, do not have the same mind muscle connections naturally that some have and it can take a bit of work. I can't imagine anyone with more than a week's training experience having butt wink (they manage to sit in a chair on on the toilet to **** just fine)... but they do.

    Truth be told the only thing anyone with a sub 500 lbs deadlift really needs to know is... shoulders back, dig in hard and bury the heels into the floor. However we have people in this thread who clearly can't do either of those things so require more coaching as they can't grasp the concept of "shoulders back" + "dig in with the heels".... rip and drive it.
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    While I agree with you and I feel the same way about a squat... I used the same technique on my 585 squat that I used the first time I hit 315... I can't imagine anyone ever having problems with a squat or the amount of squat advice I must give as it is the most natural lift in the world and a textbook perfect squat should be doable by anyone their first time lifting weights if they just feel their body a little bit.... however these individual lifts are not like that for everyone. Sometimes people do not know their body well enough, do not have the same mind muscle connections naturally that some have and it can take a bit of work. I can't imagine anyone with more than a week's training experience having butt wink (they manage to sit in a chair on on the toilet to **** just fine)... but they do.

    Truth be told the only thing anyone with a sub 500 lbs deadlift really needs to know is... shoulders back, dig in hard and bury the heels into the floor. However we have people in this thread who clearly can't do either of those things so require more coaching as they can't grasp the concept of "shoulders back" + "dig in with the heels".... rip and drive it.
    Ironically, I can grip and rip without thought and can't squat to save my life. Overthinking for the fail.
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    Originally Posted by joelash302 View Post
    Ironically, I can grip and rip without thought and can't squat to save my life. Overthinking for the fail.
    I agree
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    Originally Posted by joelash302 View Post
    Ironically, I can grip and rip without thought and can't squat to save my life. Overthinking for the fail.
    100% of the thinking in a squat is with the setup.... the only thing that moves after that setup is the knee and hip joints. All your thought should be there. The rest is just sitting down like in a chair and standing back up. If you have to think about what you are doing after the setup hope you never are in a hurry to take a **** on a toilet without any time to think. LoL

    Other end for me... a squat is natural a monkey could be trained to do it with perfect form in about 15 minutes.

    For me the deadlift requires some active thought on my initial pull. If I don't get my hips set 100% perfect (like if they are 1-2" too high)I can't budge my 5-6rm off the floor at the start of the set. It just sits there with me straining and turning red with veins popping out of my neck.
    Last edited by JasonDB; 03-12-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Lvisaa2 View Post
    I say this every couple of pages, but I'll be damned if you people don't over analyze the **** outta every lift. You know how I learned to deadlift? I watched a video or two and learned basic form then I did it. I didn't do it once or twice. I did it set after set, session after session until I could step up and pull. There are certain cues for a lift, but if you think reading words on a page is going to translate to magically getting a lift then you aren't being realistic. Get under the bar and do it. There are tons of variations on every lift and the only way to figure out what works for you is to do it. Get the BASICS, then do it.

    Worrying about the tiniest detail seems like mental clusterfluffing to me, especially when your strength numbers don't warrant you worrying about the tiniest details. Most of the minute details are for optimization of power and not safety, be safe and worry about the little details when you are actually pushing weight.
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  29. #1529
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    Originally Posted by Lvisaa2 View Post
    I say this every couple of pages, but I'll be damned if you people don't over analyze the **** outta every lift. You know how I learned to deadlift? I watched a video or two and learned basic form then I did it. I didn't do it once or twice. I did it set after set, session after session until I could step up and pull. There are certain cues for a lift, but if you think reading words on a page is going to translate to magically getting a lift then you aren't being realistic. Get under the bar and do it. There are tons of variations on every lift and the only way to figure out what works for you is to do it. Get the BASICS, then do it.

    Worrying about the tiniest detail seems like mental clusterfluffing to me, especially when your strength numbers don't warrant you worrying about the tiniest details. Most of the minute details are for optimization of power and not safety, be safe and worry about the little details when you are actually pushing weight.
    I generally agree with this, but, but, but.. I have to talk from personal experience with this one.

    I pulled a hamstring from doing too much weight too soon with SLDL. I ended up not being able to DL (or do anything that put tension on my hamstring) for something like 12 weeks. During that time though I tried to educate myself on proper form in all lifts and how progressively overload properly to not injure myself. Coming up on a few months now on being able to get use out of my hamstring I'm deadlifting more than I was before by far and I contribute it completely to having better form now.

    Speaking of deadlifts specifically there's a time where you should need to step up to the bar and pull it, but I think if you don't have a decent enough form you're never going to be able to work out all the kinks to keep adding weight week after week.
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    Originally Posted by JasonDB View Post
    Other end for me... a squat is natural a monkey could be trained to do it with perfect form in about 15 minutes.
    I could probably challenge that thought. I just don't know what happens, I've done multi height lockouts and all sorts of crap to deal with the mental part of it (up to 550 which was probably the best and worst gym experience ever due to the post lift blackout). I get in the hole fine, start the drive and just lose the focus every time. When I get a trainer to watch all I hears is "holy sht that is deep." Which really means... I need a better gym.
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