Newbie question about what's best for definition

[fmultimedia]

Hi all.

So I'm a regular guy at 38 yo, regular desk job and two kids. Last time I worked out seriously was around my 25. Since then I've been slowly but surely gaining weight and losing muscle.

But 2016 was a crappy year for me, lots of personal problems, and I put on around 10kg in a 8 month interval (I'm 181cm tall). I hated what I saw and as soon as I mustered the will (which was August 2017), I started going to the gym again.

Since then I've been having good results. I've lost 8kg already and probably quite a lot more fat, considering I gained some muscle weight. I've been doing a "hit and run" training - I go to the gym about 5 times a week (which is a feat for me) but I do around 30-40 minutes only, focusing on exercises that work large muscles or multiple muscle groups. I admit I hate cardio and do very little of that (unless you count walking my dogs to the park).

Problem is, I tend to "get bulkier" overall with little to no definition whatsoever. For example, my arms are much thicker than before, but it's more like a big muscle/fat lump rather than clear muscles.

Also, my genetics suck when I gain weight and I get this awkward beer tummy whenever I gain any 100g of weight, while my chest is flat as a board.

My diet is very healthy, though not "training extreme": I've extinguished most simple carbs from it, I eat tons of vegetables to satiate my craving for junk food and I get my proteins from whole food grains, nuts, eggs and cheese (I'm a vegetarian). This month I started taking zma.

So despite having progressed a lot in a short timespan (I'm grateful for that) I'd like some hints on how to work more on getting leaner rather than bulkier. I know very little about workouts although I try to read a bit about it now. My objective now is to lose weight, especially my stomach, and get a bit more defined. I realise I'm never be really chiseled and stuff, and I'm fine with that, so I really wanted to hear where to point my exercises to in order to get slightly better results.

I appreciate all help I can get!

[Plateauplower]

Hi all.

So I'm a regular guy at 38 yo, regular desk job and two kids. Last time I worked out seriously was around my 25. Since then I've been slowly but surely gaining weight and losing muscle.

But 2016 was a crappy year for me, lots of personal problems, and I put on around 10kg in a 8 month interval (I'm 181cm tall). I hated what I saw and as soon as I mustered the will (which was August 2017), I started going to the gym again.

Since then I've been having good results. I've lost 8kg already and probably quite a lot more fat, considering I gained some muscle weight. I've been doing a "hit and run" training - I go to the gym about 5 times a week (which is a feat for me) but I do around 30-40 minutes only, focusing on exercises that work large muscles or multiple muscle groups. I admit I hate cardio and do very little of that (unless you count walking my dogs to the park).

Problem is, I tend to "get bulkier" overall with little to no definition whatsoever. For example, my arms are much thicker than before, but it's more like a big muscle/fat lump rather than clear muscles.

Also, my genetics suck when I gain weight and I get this awkward beer tummy whenever I gain any 100g of weight, while my chest is flat as a board.

My diet is very healthy, though not "training extreme": I've extinguished most simple carbs from it, I eat tons of vegetables to satiate my craving for junk food and I get my proteins from whole food grains, nuts, eggs and cheese (I'm a vegetarian). This month I started taking zma.

So despite having progressed a lot in a short timespan (I'm grateful for that) I'd like some hints on how to work more on getting leaner rather than bulkier. I know very little about workouts although I try to read a bit about it now. My objective now is to lose weight, especially my stomach, and get a bit more defined. I realise I'm never be really chiseled and stuff, and I'm fine with that, so I really wanted to hear where to point my exercises to in order to get slightly better results.

I appreciate all help I can get!

Pretty much all of the information you need is in this thread and associated links.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=168581133

Having muscle definition is a product of having enough muscle, while not having so much body fat that said muscle is under a layer of fat. If you feel like you already a good bit of muscle, diet down to where you are happy with the level of body fat / definition, while continuing to train hard to maintain your existing muscle mass.

[xsquid99]

Eat less.
Move more.
Eat less and move more.

[fmultimedia]

Well I know that's the gist of it. I was asking like, am I better off taking more weight and doing less repetitions, or the other way around? Is going to the gym many time for short workouts better than going a few times for longer workouts? I guess what I mean is I just don't want to be in a pattern where I privilege bulking up rather than getting leaner.

----

Edit: there's a lot of info in that post, thanks for pointing it to me!

[Plateauplower]

Well I know that's the gist of it. I was asking like, am I better off taking more weight and doing less repetitions, or the other way around? Is going to the gym many time for short workouts better than going a few times for longer workouts? I guess what I mean is I just don't want to be in a pattern where I privilege bulking up rather than getting leaner.

It comes down to diet. You are not going to "bulk up" in a calorie deficit, it is contrary to the laws of physics. You should continue to train hard and eat less food. Some cardio is good for cardiovascular health but is not necessary for losing fat....

[ljimd]

Eat less.

Eat less

This ^^^^^.

[Bo_Flecks]

This ^^^^^.

Now you're being too simple. You aren't going to throw a tantrum and get yourself banned, are you?

[ljimd]

Now you're being too simple. You aren't going to throw a tantrum and get yourself banned, are you?

Sorry Stebo. Simple guys give simple answers.

Tantrum? At my age it would just look like trapped intestinal gas.

[OldFartTom]

... ...Well I know that's the gist of it. I was asking like, am I better off taking more weight and doing less repetitions, or the other way around? Is going to the gym many time for short workouts better than going a few times for longer workouts...
...

Oddly, although endurance and strength respond differently to various rep schemes, several credible studies have shown that for *hypertrophy* the rep schemes (like 5*5, 4*8, 3*10, 4*12 etc) have far less difference than tradition dictated, in fact surprisingly little difference. Sets of 5 is strength only but sets of 8 are for hypertrophy - sorry put that in the bin!!

There's a lot to balance up, how much how often is more difficult, as exercises overlap and the load needs to be gradually increases in some manner but not too much too fast. That's why the program choice is important.

* Best progress will be from getting diet right, as discussed above.
* Next.. get on a good program (picking one suitable for your goals and where you are now). Then being "consistent and persistent" with the program for an extended period accompanied by some old fashioned a55-busting effort.

Enjoy..

[tomnationwide]

Well I know that's the gist of it. I was asking like, am I better off taking more weight and doing less repetitions, or the other way around? Is going to the gym many time for short workouts better than going a few times for longer workouts? I guess what I mean is I just don't want to be in a pattern where I privilege bulking up rather than getting leaner.

----

Edit: there's a lot of info in that post, thanks for pointing it to me!

No exercise will show off muscle. Being able to see muscle is 100% diet. Even people who don't work out much and are super skinny will show muscle.

Finally your rep scheme if you want to show muscle should vary between low reps heavy weight and higher reps lower weight. You should always be confusing the muscles to make them continue growing.

[Bo_Flecks]

Sorry Stebo. Simple guys give simple answers.

Just a little tongue-in-cheek fun aimed at the recent rash of trolling about how simple it is for nattys to gain slabs of quality muscle. Just lift M8.

[Plateauplower]

Just a little tongue-in-cheek fun aimed at the recent rash of trolling about how simple it is for nattys to gain slabs of quality muscle. Just lift M8.

The nutrition section is just as bad and they are not trolling Talking about not needing to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat, and making those "great lean mass gains" in a calorie deficit (which is possible for untrained people IMO). Its mind boggling and they will even link you to studies that they do not comprehend to support their "facts" ...SMH

At least the Euro troll could back up his trolls with decent pics, regardless how the gains were made lulz

[Bo_Flecks]

The nutrition section is just as bad and they are not trolling Talking about not needing to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat, and making those "great lean mass gains" in a calorie deficit (which is possible for untrained people IMO). Its mind boggling and they will even link you to studies that they do not comprehend to support their "facts" ...SMH

At least the Euro troll could back up his trolls with decent pics, regardless how the gains were made lulz

Sent you a PM

[Plateauplower]

Sent you a PM

LOL replied. I don't get PM notifications on my pc at work but thx

[Garage Rat]

My two cents.
Your probably not getting enough protein,at least one gram per pound of bodyweight is needed for muscle recovery.
You may not be in a calorie deficit which is needed to lose body fat or and energy deficit (calories burned) with cardio to put you in a fat loss deficit or you may need both if you not losing.
So if you hate cardio you may never get to the goal look you want.
You would need to cut your calorie intake drastically to lose BF.
Also you should keep a diet journal as well as well as a training journal to track exact macros and training methods.
The other thing you can try is doing higher reps in your training and resting less between sets keeping your heart rate up.
If you keep doing the same as your doing you will stay the same with no progress toward your goal.

[Plateauplower]

No exercise will show off muscle. Being able to see muscle is 100% diet. Even people who don't work out much and are super skinny will show muscle.

Finally your rep scheme if you want to show muscle should vary between low reps heavy weight and higher reps lower weight. You should always be confusing the muscles to make them continue growing.

Sometimes I tell my muscles we are doing curls when I am actually doing squats or deadlifts. My muscles are pretty gullible. I get some strange looks when I'm talking to my biceps in the squat rack, asking if they are ready for some major curl carnage, but its the price I'm willing to pay for gainz.

[ljimd]

Sometimes I tell my muscles we are doing curls when I am actually doing squats or deadlifts. My muscles are pretty gullible. I get some strange looks when I'm talking to my biceps in the squat rack, asking if they are ready for some major curl carnage, but its the price I'm willing to pay for gainz.

Now that's funny PP.

[fmultimedia]

I wanted to quote and thanks for every reply (almost all of them anyway). There's some very good information and tips throughout, and most of it isn't contradicting itself, so that sounds solid.

One point I'd like to stress is that I AM getting results - I lost around 8kg in less than 4 months, and my body looks definately different from before. You know, when you're in a very low pint, almost anything will help - and I guess I'm still just about leaving that point. I probably still got a few more months of training gaining lots of results even if I keep doing the same. What I really wanted was some tips stirring me towards weight loss / definition rather than gaining muscle, because both of them are happening now, but not at the same pace.

So, as I far as I got from what I read from you guys and from the links you sent, when I want to lose fat, I should be in a calorie deficit, while when I want to gain muscle, I can't be in a deficit. Is that right? Apparently I can't do both at the same time.

So I have one question: I have a single body part, which is my chest, that I really wanted to put on a bit of muscle and size, because seriously, my genetics just made me flat as a board in that area. Now that I've been gaining a bit of muscle, my arms grew, my ass grew, my legs grew, even my back developed noticeably, but my chest.... still flat as ever. I do put a lot of focus on the chest, I ask for help from the gym instructor for the right exercises and frequence, but I guess I have to accept my progress will always be super slow there. Considering that calorie load thing I mentioned earlier, and considering I don't want to get bigger but I have this chest issue, what would you advise me?

Again, thanks a lot for all the replies and input, I deeply appreciate it.

[Plateauplower]

Now that's funny PP.

I read a lot of that study today you had posted about awhile back. regarding 2X per week vs 4X per week. pretty interesting but seems it was the only one (so far) showing that lower frequency was better. But it seemed to lean more towards newer lifters with suspicion being more advanced do better with higher frequency. I'd need to read it in detail to get it all. Interesting nonetheless.

[kimm4]

Achieving definition happens when you lower your body fat and have enough overall muscle to support the look. It's controlled though diet by creating a calorie deficit and staying consistent with a solid lifting program.

[PhantomMaxx]

This reminds me of those conversation that start off with "I don't want to get bulky, I just want to be tone"...choose from below choices:

A) That's why I won't lift heavy
B) That's why I don't like supplements
C) That's why I need to run

[fmultimedia]

This reminds me of those conversation that start off with "I don't want to get bulky, I just want to be tone"...choose from below choices:

A) That's why I won't lift heavy
B) That's why I don't like supplements
C) That's why I need to run

You're right I don't want to dedicate what takes to get in top shape. I just want out of a bad shape. If on the way I can stir a little this way or that, that's all I came here to ask.

[tomnationwide]

Sometimes I tell my muscles we are doing curls when I am actually doing squats or deadlifts. My muscles are pretty gullible. I get some strange looks when I'm talking to my biceps in the squat rack, asking if they are ready for some major curl carnage, but its the price I'm willing to pay for gainz.

if you lie to them it becomes their truth #MAGA

[ElrondHubbard]

Well I know that's the gist of it. I was asking like, am I better off taking more weight and doing less repetitions, or the other way around? Is going to the gym many time for short workouts better than going a few times for longer workouts? I guess what I mean is I just don't want to be in a pattern where I privilege bulking up rather than getting leaner.

----

Edit: there's a lot of info in that post, thanks for pointing it to me!

Your training regime can be flexible. Many short workouts or fewer long workouts can both be effective. As he others have said, the fundamental key is diet. Train as hard as you can, ad keep your calorie input in a slight deficit.

Which means you need to know your dietary status in detail.