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    Stop saying 'we didn't evolve from apes, we share a common ancestor'

    I hear this a lot in threads about evolution, usually trying to correct creationist misconceptions. But it's nonsensical, in the same sense that saying "Humans didn't evolve from mammals, we share a common ancestor with them" is nonsensical. We do share a common ancestor with other mammals, but that ancestor itself would have still been a mammal. Not only did humans evolve from apes, humans are still apes, in the exact same way that we are still mammals, vertebrates, chordates and eukaryotes.



    The last common ancestor between Homo and Pan was itself an ape, or else we would have 3 seperate instances of the Hominidae family (Pan, Pongo and Gorilla) arising from a non-ape old world monkey ancestor, which, biologically and taxonomically speaking, can't happen. And if our ancestor was an ape, and belongs to the ape clade, then we too still belong to the ape clade, and so are still apes. You can't ever 'graduate' from a clade.

    What you should be saying is "Humans didn't evolve from modern apes (eg. chimpanzees), we share a common ancestor with them." That common ancestor would have still been an ape, just not a modern ape.
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    repped.
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    how do we know this is all true?
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    Originally Posted by tylerburden View Post
    how do we know this is all true?
    Archaeology and phylogenetic analysis.
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    My anthropology professor said otherwise.

    What you're saying is true. But I think its worded that way so people dont think the chimp in the zoo can turn into a human.
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    I was under the impression that was implied...
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    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post
    I hear this a lot in threads about evolution, usually trying to correct creationist misconceptions. But it's nonsensical, in the same sense that saying "Humans didn't evolve from mammals, we share a common ancestor with them" is nonsensical. We do share a common ancestor with other mammals, but that ancestor itself would have still been a mammal. Not only did humans evolve from apes, humans are still apes, in the exact same way that we are still mammals, vertebrates, chordates and eukaryotes.




    The last common ancestor between Homo and Pan was itself an ape, or else we would have 3 seperate instances of the Hominidae family (Pan, Pongo and Gorilla) arising from a non-ape old world monkey ancestor, which, biologically and taxonomically speaking, can't happen. And if our ancestor was an ape, and belongs to the ape clade, then we too still belong to the ape clade, and so are still apes. You can't ever 'graduate' from a clade.

    What you should be saying is "Humans didn't evolve from modern apes (eg. chimpanzees), we share a common ancestor with them." That common ancestor would have still been an ape, just not a modern ape.
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    Originally Posted by 210G View Post
    I was under the impression that was implied...
    This.
    "The Scots invented everything - the Thermos flask, the television set, the Venetian blind, the Irish jig, the Norwegian wood, the Dutch cap, the French letter-"
    "The Jewish New Year?"
    "And that. Also the Welsh harp, Kentucky Fried Chicken, New York, New York-"
    "It's a wonderful town."
    "The Greek Tragedy, the Roman Holiday and the Turkish Delight. Not to mention the American Pie."
    "The American Pie?"
    "I told y' not to mention that."
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by HansF View Post
    My anthropology professor said otherwise.

    What you're saying is true. But I think its worded that way so people dont think the chimp in the zoo can turn into a human.
    I can understand contentions from an anthropological perspective, which is usally the problem people have with it ("I haven't ever seen an ape build a spacecraft!"), but from a purely biological perspective, he is wrong.

    Originally Posted by 210G View Post
    I was under the impression that was implied...
    The fact that humans are still apes was implied? I find that most people don't hold this view, even the ones who understand and accept evolution. I have had people people who believe in evolution argue with me that humans are not apes on many occasions.
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    My favorite part was the link to the website so we can validate this is legit info and not some pro-creationist site.
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    Originally Posted by Ghosting View Post
    My favorite part was the link to the website so we can validate this is legit info and not some pro-creationist site.
    lol? Nothing about my post or the image can be interpreted to be pro-creationist, unless you are illiterate.
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    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post
    I can understand contentions from an anthropological perspective, which is usally the problem people have with it ("I haven't ever seen an ape build a spacecraft!"), but from a purely biological perspective, he is wrong.



    The fact that humans are still apes was implied? I find that most people don't hold this view, even the ones who understand and accept evolution. I have had people people who believe in evolution argue with me that humans are not apes on many occasions.
    Pretty sure he was saying "modern" was implied, i.e. we didn't evolve from chimpanzees, gorillas or orangutans.
    "The Scots invented everything - the Thermos flask, the television set, the Venetian blind, the Irish jig, the Norwegian wood, the Dutch cap, the French letter-"
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    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post
    Archaeology and phylogenetic analysis.
    You should be an Archaeologist.
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    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post
    Archaeology and phylogenetic analysis.
    how do we know what that says is really true?
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post
    lol? Nothing about my post or the image can be interpreted to be pro-creationist, unless you are illiterate.
    It is pro-creationist to say we don't have a common ancestor. To imply that evolutionist are wrong. That EXACTLY what you did. Stop playing dumb, post the link. Now I am annoyed. Post the link or don't post again.
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    I don't know what you're talking about. I see people saying 'we didn't evolve from monkeys' because theists use that bullsh!t against us all the time. We did evolve from apes, we are apes. We did NOT evolve from monkeys.
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    Usually when people say that they mean we evolved from monkeys, like the ones we have today.
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    op was evolved from a phaggit, into a queer.
    Please respond
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    Originally Posted by tylerburden View Post
    how do we know what that says is really true?
    The evidence speaks for itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lution_fossils

    DNA sequences for you to examine and establish phylogenetic trees are freely available at the NCBI website.

    Originally Posted by Ghosting View Post
    It is pro-creationist to say we don't have a common ancestor. To imply that evolutionist are wrong. That EXACTLY what you did. Stop playing dumb, post the link. Now I am annoyed. Post the link or don't post again.
    Where did I say that we didn't have a common ancestor? Are you retarded, seriously?
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    Originally Posted by kiwimac View Post
    Pretty sure he was saying "modern" was implied, i.e. we didn't evolve from chimpanzees, gorillas or orangutans.
    exactly.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by Maiar View Post
    I don't know what you're talking about. I see people saying 'we didn't evolve from monkeys' because theists use that bullsh!t against us all the time. We did evolve from apes, we are apes. We did NOT evolve from monkeys.
    Yes we did, hominids are descended from the old world monkeys. We are direct descendants of monkeys.
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    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post
    The evidence speaks for itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lution_fossils

    DNA sequences for you to examine and establish phylogenetic trees are freely available at the NCBI website.
    and how do we know any of that is really true?
    what if everything they say has been a lie this whole time?
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    Creationists are people who accept that there is a higher power that made everything. Had a co-worker explain it to me. He uses "society" as a secondary argument and how come humans have an advanced civil structure etc etc.

    No point arguing.
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    We did share a common ancestor. The proto-ape that gave rise to the apes that eventually had an ape that gave rise to us (more evolved apes). What's the point of your post?

    EDIT: Here you go guise.

    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics
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    OP believes we evolved from apes































































































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    Originally Posted by tylerburden View Post
    and how do we know any of that is really true?
    what if everything they say has been a lie this whole time?
    Go to a museum, you can see the evidence for yourself.
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    you just reminded me to study for Biology. Cheers op
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    Originally Posted by TheCurator View Post


    Where did I say that we didn't have a common ancestor? Are you retarded, seriously?

    You are seriously dumb as hell. Not only that, no link. Troll idiot creationist.
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    repped with great enthusiasm. OP actually knows his stuff.
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