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  1. #1
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    37 Years old and on Testosterone Therapy. I NEED HELP!

    OK... Where to begin...

    For starters, I am on Testosterone Therapy for "Low T." I have been on this for about 3-4 months. Initially, my doctor put me on 1cc (a very low dosage) T injection and left all else the same. Initially (about week 3) I felt great, but then around week 8, I started to feel worse than even before this all started. We tested my blood and my T count went down while my estrogen levels went up. He put me on an estrogen blocker and upped my T injections to 2cc. I am still not feeling all that much better, but there is some improvements in certain areas (muscle growth), but no improvements in other areas (i.e. sex drive). I am writing this message in this forum for some advice or maybe some others' personal experiences with T therapy.

    Why might I be having these issues... AND... What might I be able to do for the following issues I am having?

    1 - lack of sex drive (still).
    2 - body acne - mostly on my upper back.
    3 - bloating (ancles mostly)
    4 - mood issues

    I know T Therapy is supposed to HELP many of these issues, but I'm still not quite there.

  2. #2
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    1cc total in one inject... or 1cc a week/biweekly, etc ??

    I REALLY hope it wasnt like 1cc per 4 weeks or something awful like that...

  3. #3
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HevEw8 View Post
    1cc total in one inject... or 1cc a week/biweekly, etc ??

    I REALLY hope it wasnt like 1cc per 4 weeks or something awful like that...
    It began as 1cc / weekly. Every Thursday. Now it's 2cc / weekly (Thursdays) with Tamoxifen (10MG) Sundays and Mondays.

  4. #4
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    nolv isnt an Anti E... it affects specific tissue (breast) and stops issues there but doesnt systematically address estrogen issues... also 1cc weekly is a high dose (generally speaking) that should put you well over normal range, ie somewhere around 1800 ng/dl if I had to throw out a number. 2cc's is a cycle LOL (assuming min concentration of 400mg/ml)

    as an aside, most clinics/docs prescribe Armidex (sp?) but that isnt great either, Aromasin (sp?) is much more effective.. I'm not sure if Femera (Letrozole) is approved for HRT estrogen control or not but that is another option if you are physiologically predisposed to converting T to E at some very high rate for some reason..... there are other factors as well, but for now that explains enough

  5. #5
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HevEw8 View Post
    nolv isnt an Anti E... it affects specific tissue (breast) and stops issues there but doesnt systematically address estrogen issues... also 1cc weekly is a high dose (generally speaking) that should put you well over normal range, ie somewhere around 1800 ng/dl if I had to throw out a number. 2cc's is a cycle LOL (assuming min concentration of 400mg/ml)

    as an aside, most clinics/docs prescribe Armidex (sp?) but that isnt great either, Aromasin (sp?) is much more effective.. I'm not sure if Femera (Letrozole) is approved for HRT estrogen control or not but that is another option if you are physiologically predisposed to converting T to E at some very high rate for some reason..... there are other factors as well, but for now that explains enough
    Can you give me some advice on what to ask for - in terms of ANTI - E. I know I have issues with my E being elevated, since I've been on T. I would like to know what to ask my doctor in terms of anti-E.... And I could be VERY WRONG with the T injection #'s. I go Thursday... I can ask then.

  6. #6
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    Inbforthelock.

    Really, OP, this kind of "test discussion" is not gonna be allowed by the Mods, although it should be. If you're having problems with low test, then you should seek out a qualified urologist or endocrinologist who can help you.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by GuyJin View Post
    Inbforthelock.

    Really, OP, this kind of "test discussion" is not gonna be allowed by the Mods, although it should be. If you're having problems with low test, then you should seek out a qualified urologist or endocrinologist who can help you.

    But Guy, everyone knows all BBers are T-experts.

  8. #8
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    get off the nolva and get on an AI, all these symptoms are caused by high estrogen. Nolva doesn't stop tests conversion to estrogen it just blocks it from certain sites. You need an AI to stop the t aromatasing into e
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  9. #9
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    But Guy, everyone knows all BBers are T-experts.
    The scary part is as sarcastic as you are being, most Dr's dont know enough about HRT either... OP's sitch is a great example...



    on the block subject... wasnt exactly sure if/how this is addressed here... Doesnt seem like properly prescribed HRT for a medical issue should be so taboo... but waddo I know.

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by HevEw8 View Post
    The scary part is as sarcastic as you are being, most Dr's dont know enough about HRT either... OP's sitch is a great example...



    on the block subject... wasnt exactly sure if/how this is addressed here... Doesnt seem like properly prescribed HRT for a medical issue should be so taboo... but waddo I know.

    Well, I would hope he (and others) would go to doctor who specializes in it. I am not convinced he is receiving it through a doctor anyway. The use of Nolva (Tamoxifen) has me wondering. Probably just the skeptic in me. If he takes issue with me thinking this, TFB. IDC.

  11. #11
    Progress not Perfection cowboybiker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GuyJin View Post
    Inbforthelock.

    Really, OP, this kind of "test discussion" is not gonna be allowed by the Mods, although it should be. If you're having problems with low test, then you should seek out a qualified urologist or endocrinologist who can help you.
    Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. – Thomas Jefferson


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  12. #12
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    Well, I would hope he (and others) would go to doctor who specializes in it. I am not convinced he is receiving it through a doctor anyway. The use of Nolva (Tamoxifen) has me wondering. Probably just the skeptic in me. If he takes issue with me thinking this, TFB. IDC.
    Point taken... You would assume even a DR that wasnt at the cutting edge would know that isnt an Anti E... the dosing is also high... even at 1 per week (as I noted in one of my first posts)

  13. #13
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Doctor Prescribed...

    I see what you are saying, but my T-shorts are in fact Doctor Prescribed. It does seem to be that perhaps, he is NOT an expert, but he is in fact a Doctor. BTW - I am NOT a body builder, nor do I want to be. I'm trying to battle low energy, depression, lack of sex drive. The extra muscle is just a benefit.

    My Doctor wants me in the mid 800s in terms of my T-count, and when I started I was in the low 400s. The second test show my T-count dropped into the low 200s, as my estrodial (sp) sky-rocketed. This particular doctor's office specializes in T-Therapy, in addition to weight loss / control, but perhaps they aren't 100% up on the estrogen medications.

    Can you please explain to me...

    What is an AI? And... What is Nova? I will talk to my Doctor on Thursday about all this information, by the way, and let you guys know what he says.

    BTW... If this is taboo in this forum, you could always help me with some advice - at my email. JasonSuttmeier@verizon.net

  14. #14
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    Well, I would hope he (and others) would go to doctor who specializes in it. I am not convinced he is receiving it through a doctor anyway. The use of Nolva (Tamoxifen) has me wondering. Probably just the skeptic in me. If he takes issue with me thinking this, TFB. IDC.
    and no. I don't take offense. I'm just trying to LEARN why this "treatment" isn't giving me the effects it's supposed to.

  15. #15
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Whatever 200mgs is - that's supposedly the amount in my weekly shot.

  16. #16
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Is this along the lines of what you are referring to?

    SciFit ES3

  17. #17
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post

    My Doctor wants me in the mid 800s in terms of my T-count, and when I started I was in the low 400s. The second test show my T-count dropped into the low 200s, as my estrodial (sp) sky-rocketed.
    at 1cc weekly, that is literally impossible... so Something is going on...

    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post
    Is this along the lines of what you are referring to?

    SciFit ES3
    NO... u need something (or Should have) something Dr prescribed

  18. #18
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HevEw8 View Post
    at 1cc weekly, that is literally impossible... so Something is going on...



    NO... u need something (or Should have) something Dr prescribed
    Is there anything specific by name to suggest?

  19. #19
    Registered User HevEw8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post
    Is there anything specific by name to suggest?
    did in my other posts... 3 different things... in all honesty, based on what you just said about ur levels, that is beyond anything someone on a board is going to be able to figure out... it just isnt actually possible... it essentially means ALL of the test you are taking is aromatizing into estrogen

  20. #20
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HevEw8 View Post
    did in my other posts... 3 different things... in all honesty, based on what you just said about ur levels, that is beyond anything someone on a board is going to be able to figure out... it just isnt actually possible... it essentially means ALL of the test you are taking is aromatizing into estrogen
    OK... I see the post you are referring to. I'm gonna ask him about those medications. Like I said in a more recent post, my weekly shot is 200mgs (not 1cc or 2cc)... And my concern is that my Testosterone is getting converted to Estrogen. That's why I'm here, but I definitely now understand that there's little advice anyone can give me on here. But I definitely appreciate the help you have given me. All I am trying to do is get passed this sex drive issue.

  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post
    OK... I see the post you are referring to. I'm gonna ask him about those medications. Like I said in a more recent post, my weekly shot is 200mgs (not 1cc or 2cc)... And my concern is that my Testosterone is getting converted to Estrogen. That's why I'm here, but I definitely now understand that there's little advice anyone can give me on here. But I definitely appreciate the help you have given me. All I am trying to do is get passed this sex drive issue.
    Steps to helping your sex drive:

    1- find hotter chicks to bang
    2- Divorce overweight wife

    (not necessarily in that order)

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    Originally Posted by hevew8 View Post
    steps to helping your sex drive:

    1- find hotter chicks to bang
    2- divorce overweight wife

    (not necessarily in that order)
    lol!

  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post
    There are three aromatase inhibitors:

    * Arimidex (chemical name: anastrozole)
    * Aromasin (chemical name: exemestane)
    * Femara (chemical name: letrozole)
    Ok.......... what do you want us to do???
    David


    I'm not a bodybuilder but I play one on the internet.

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    Originally Posted by 2nd_chance View Post
    Ok.......... what do you want us to do???
    My bad... Those were for me.

  25. #25
    Registered User DJJayito's Avatar
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    Because of the advice here, I found the information I'm bringing to my Doctor...

    Best Practices in Low Testosterone Treatment

    When performed correctly, testosterone treatment can have profound effects on mental, physical, and emotional health.

    If performed incorrectly, side effects and diminished quality of life are common.

    The following information is the culmination of today's best practices in hypogonadism treatment, developed by leading doctors in hormone replacement therapy.

    T Treatment Trifecta

    Testosterone + HCG + Arimidex

    If your doctor only prescribes testosterone by itself, you will most likely be in for a rough ride.

    The problem with test only regimens is that one of the main metabolites (estrogen), tends to get out of control.

    High estrogen negates most of the benefits of TRT, resulting in many of the same symptoms of low testosterone you had in the first place!

    Fatigue, impotence, water retention (bloat), depression, and brain fog are all commonly associated with high estrogen.

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    Testosterone Treatment
    Dental malpractice lawyer

    Arimidex Lowers Estrogen Levels

    The solution, is to add an estrogen lowering medication, commonly Arimidex (anastrozole) or Aromasin (exemestane). It's from the class of medications called aromatase inhibitors, which essentially block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

    It helps by forcing testosterone output to remain high while keeping estrogen levels low.

    Once your testosterone and estrogen levels are dialed in, it's time to stop the next inevitable decline... shrinking testicles and it's often associated fertility problems.
    HCG Injections/Shots and Side Effects

    This is where the medication HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) comes in. It helps prevent the side effects of infertility and testicle shrinkage that commonly occurs during testosterone treatment.

    Basically, your testicles shrink because your body's under the misguided notion it doesn't need to make testosterone anymore.

    When your androgens are being supplied from an external source, your balls are essentially saying "That's ok, we already have enough. It's time to shut things down."

    For some, small testicles may just be a cosmetic problem. But HGC injections do more than increase testicle size, it also increases adrenal function, which has many positive effects on well-being, libido, and energy in of itself.
    Testosterone Treatment Dosages for Men

    - 50mg Testosterone enanthate/cypionate every third day.

    - 0.25mg Arimidex every third day.

    - 500IU HCG every third day.

    All medications taken on the same day.

    Many doctors want to prescribe dosages over longer periods of time, however testosterone's half life should be kept in mind to prevent fluctuations and the variable effects that go with it.

    The half life of a medication is the amount of time it takes to metabolize to half it's original dose.
    Half Life of Testosterone

    For example... both testosterone cypionate and enanthate have a half life of approximately 7 days. A 100mg injection would then result in 50mg after 7 days, 25mg after 14 days, and so on and so on.

    If you wait a week, two weeks, or even a month (like some doctors suggest), you may well imagine the mental, physical, and emotional roller coaster ride you will be in for! For this reason it's extremely important dosing is scheduled properly!

    An every third day (E3D) dosing regimen, results in the most stable androgen levels over time.

    Once you've been on the test, Arimidex, and HCG protocol for 6 weeks, it's usually a good idea to get your blood levels tested to see where you're at.

    Rehabilitation Center
    Dental malpractice lawyers
    Dental implant price
    Dental implants price

    Ideal Hormone and T Levels for Optimal Health

    - Total Testosterone 800 - 1,000 ng/dl

    - Free Testosterone 250 - 300 pg/ml

    - Estradiol 20 - 30 pg/ml

    - SHBG 10 - 30 nmol/l

    - DHT 60 - 70 ng/dl

    - Prolactin 2 - 3 ng/ml

    - DHEA-S ~ 300 ug/dl

    You may need to adjust your medications accordingly to meet the desirable hormone ranges. Of course, it goes without saying "symptoms should always trump numbers."

    Most important is assessing how you feel during testosterone treatment, and not just scraping the bottom of a "healthy" range.



    This is the information I was looking for, and I thank everyone for - directly / indirectly - helping me find it.

  26. #26
    . Brackneyc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post
    Best Practices in Low Testosterone Treatment

    When performed correctly, testosterone treatment can have profound effects on mental, physical, and emotional health.

    If performed incorrectly, side effects and diminished quality of life are common.

    The following information is the culmination of today's best practices in hypogonadism treatment, developed by leading doctors in hormone replacement therapy.

    T Treatment Trifecta

    Testosterone + HCG + Arimidex

    If your doctor only prescribes testosterone by itself, you will most likely be in for a rough ride.

    The problem with test only regimens is that one of the main metabolites (estrogen), tends to get out of control.

    High estrogen negates most of the benefits of TRT, resulting in many of the same symptoms of low testosterone you had in the first place!

    Fatigue, impotence, water retention (bloat), depression, and brain fog are all commonly associated with high estrogen.

    Arimidex
    Rehabilitation Centers
    Testosterone Treatment
    Dental malpractice lawyer

    Arimidex Lowers Estrogen Levels

    The solution, is to add an estrogen lowering medication, commonly Arimidex (anastrozole) or Aromasin (exemestane). It's from the class of medications called aromatase inhibitors, which essentially block the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

    It helps by forcing testosterone output to remain high while keeping estrogen levels low.

    Once your testosterone and estrogen levels are dialed in, it's time to stop the next inevitable decline... shrinking testicles and it's often associated fertility problems.
    HCG Injections/Shots and Side Effects

    This is where the medication HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) comes in. It helps prevent the side effects of infertility and testicle shrinkage that commonly occurs during testosterone treatment.

    Basically, your testicles shrink because your body's under the misguided notion it doesn't need to make testosterone anymore.

    When your androgens are being supplied from an external source, your balls are essentially saying "That's ok, we already have enough. It's time to shut things down."

    For some, small testicles may just be a cosmetic problem. But HGC injections do more than increase testicle size, it also increases adrenal function, which has many positive effects on well-being, libido, and energy in of itself.
    Testosterone Treatment Dosages for Men

    - 50mg Testosterone enanthate/cypionate every third day.

    - 0.25mg Arimidex every third day.

    - 500IU HCG every third day.

    All medications taken on the same day.

    Many doctors want to prescribe dosages over longer periods of time, however testosterone's half life should be kept in mind to prevent fluctuations and the variable effects that go with it.

    The half life of a medication is the amount of time it takes to metabolize to half it's original dose.
    Half Life of Testosterone

    For example... both testosterone cypionate and enanthate have a half life of approximately 7 days. A 100mg injection would then result in 50mg after 7 days, 25mg after 14 days, and so on and so on.

    If you wait a week, two weeks, or even a month (like some doctors suggest), you may well imagine the mental, physical, and emotional roller coaster ride you will be in for! For this reason it's extremely important dosing is scheduled properly!

    An every third day (E3D) dosing regimen, results in the most stable androgen levels over time.

    Once you've been on the test, Arimidex, and HCG protocol for 6 weeks, it's usually a good idea to get your blood levels tested to see where you're at.

    Rehabilitation Center
    Dental malpractice lawyers
    Dental implant price
    Dental implants price

    Ideal Hormone and T Levels for Optimal Health

    - Total Testosterone 800 - 1,000 ng/dl

    - Free Testosterone 250 - 300 pg/ml

    - Estradiol 20 - 30 pg/ml

    - SHBG 10 - 30 nmol/l

    - DHT 60 - 70 ng/dl

    - Prolactin 2 - 3 ng/ml

    - DHEA-S ~ 300 ug/dl

    You may need to adjust your medications accordingly to meet the desirable hormone ranges. Of course, it goes without saying "symptoms should always trump numbers."

    Most important is assessing how you feel during testosterone treatment, and not just scraping the bottom of a "healthy" range.



    This is the information I was looking for, and I thank everyone for - directly / indirectly - helping me find it.
    My "gut" tells me that as doctors go, he/she will not be too receptive to information gathered from an Google search (they are funny that way). Your doctor may be different than most doctors I know in this regard. I'd not count on it.

  27. #27
    Progress not Perfection cowboybiker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DJJayito View Post
    BTW - I am NOT a body builder, nor do I want to be.
    Why come here for advice?
    Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. – Thomas Jefferson


    Be yourself; Everyone else is already taken. - Oscar Wilde

  28. #28
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cowboybiker View Post
    Why come here for advice?
    Well, I can understand coming here given that there are a sh!tload of people here on "TRT". So, it is possible that they've experienced similar symptoms and found a way to resolve them.
    It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

  29. #29
    Registered User ParsleyTea's Avatar
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    If you work indoors most of the day, your low test. levels might simply be due to a lack of sunlight exposure or vitamin D3.

    "Vitamin D and male sex drive"

    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/news-...ale-sex-drive/

  30. #30
    . Brackneyc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Well, I can understand coming here given that there are a sh!tload of people here on "TRT". So, it is possible that they've experienced similar symptoms and found a way to resolve them.
    Many of us know who they are. This FNG does not, and to me, that means he is assuming. He could go pick any forum on the internet where there are guys in his age range and find folks on TRT. He chose THIS one for a reason.

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