Necessary to work your shoulders?

[dollface33]

I'll try to be as clear as possible...

I'm currently following the LiveFit training routine and the split is:
Chest & Triceps
Back & Biceps
Legs
Shoulders & Abs

My question is, is it necessary to train on your shoulders for any other reason then to have them more defined aesthetically? I personally feel that I'd be happy with arms that are cut and defined, but I don't particularly feel the need to have larger delts (as I have big, wide shoulders anyway and don't want them to appear any larger). Would you need to train your shoulders to help strengthen your back, for example?

I was thinking that instead of doing the shoulder & abs day, I could switch it up to do another day of chest/ triceps or back/ biceps or whatever area might be lagging. And of course, I'd still do the ab part of it.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks!

[rdferguson]

Yes. By nature, the shoulders are an unstable joint. Proper shoulder training (in the context of a well-balanced program) stabilises your shoulders and keeps them healthy, reducing the risk of shoulder injuries. Even if you aren't doing overhead presses (which I think you should), some light rotator cuff exercises are a good thing, and they won't add any extra bulk to your shoulders.

Don't just do a second chest or back day to fill in the training time. Having a good shoulder push (eg overhead press) and a good shoulder pull (eg upright row) followed by some rotator cuff exercises would be a pretty good shoulder day. If you want to change your focus on the 4th training day, then still do push AND pull movements. For example, instead of doing chest+tris or back+bis, do chest+back or do bis+tris. You've gotta keep the muscles around the shoulder girdle balanced out, or you'll be an injury waiting to happen.

[Austere]

If you don't, you'll regret it.

Even if you don't use much shoulder volume, you should still do a bit of rotator cuff work. I mean, there's not much to do for shoulders: just OHP, maybe a bit of assistance, and some RC work.

[Leanone1]

I throw in a some shoulders every few weeks. My trainer said that's all the work my shoulders need. Guess maybe it depends on your build?

[rdferguson]

I throw in a some shoulders every few weeks. My trainer said that's all the work my shoulders need. Guess maybe it depends on your build?

I'm curious as to your trainer's justification for this belief. IMO, the shoulder sshould be trained specifically at least once per week. I do overhead presses 1-2x every week, as well as rotator cuff work depending on what I feel I need. In saying that, all chest and upper back exercises will work the shoulders to varying degrees.

[Euqinom]

I've refused working shoulders through isolation exercises from early on. I do plan a specific warm up focused om mobility and stability, and sometimes do very specific work (iso-push ups with perturbations, exorotations or dynamic blackburns if my shoulders are in bad shape, which I test for regularly) and I do a lot of compound stuff.
As soon as I start doing isolation stuff (the conventional work: side raises, front raises,..), or plan a 'shoulder day' I start getting minor discomforts left and right.

So, I would say, no. You do not need to plan a day for shoulders. Rather, pick a few good prehab exercises and incorporate those into your workouts/warm up. Assuming that you work with a balanced program.

[mellie369]

I don't do shoulders. In the last year, my trainer may have put them in once or twice but he said, from his experience, the shoulders get hit with so many exercises that they grow anyways... and it's true for me at least. My shoulders have grown nicely even though I don't work them directly.

[thehobbes]

It depends... if your bench pressing strength starts to run away from your shoulder pressing strength then that's a problem. You should be able to OHP at least half of your bench IMO. If you get to the point where you're benching 3x as much as OHP you have a major imbalance. All I usually do is heavy standing OHP once a week, but I also do rotator cuff work 3x a week since my one shoulder was jacked up for the better part of a year. At least do something for your RCs so your shoulders don't get beaten up on inclines and such.

[dollface33]

Ahhh... I see. So the main point here being to make sure I work my shoulders at least enough so that I keep myself in balance and reduce the risk of injury. Makes a lot of sense. It seems like the program JE laid out is very balanced and there are a lot of both compound and isolation exercises. So maybe, I can just add another day of chest/ tri's and then make sure to add just a bit of shoulder work to that day also.

Thank you for your help everyone!

[discdoggie]

Unless you have a shoulder injury, why would you want to omit training shoulders?

The standing Overhead or Military Press is one of the Main Big Lifts. Barring injury, IMHO, if you don't overhead press, you don't "lift." I'm all for nixing a "shoulder day" and iso work like laterals, but for functional strength one needs to press.



As an aside, the larger and wider your shoulders appear, the smaller your waist looks.

[Ameinseto]

Unless you have a shoulder injury, why would you want to omit training shoulders?

The standing Overhead or Military Press is one of the Main Big Lifts. Barring injury, IMHO, if you don't overhead press, you don't "lift." I'm all for nixing a "shoulder day" and iso work like laterals, but for functional strength one needs to press.



As an aside, the larger and wider your shoulders appear, the smaller your waist looks.

+1

As for being worried about having wide shoulders, I am naturally shaped like a man and have had some of the same thoughts. I have been able to train through weight lifting to change this and create more curves, but I was really worried about shoulders for a while. In my experience, they will grow regardless, but I would wager that they'll look a lot better than you expect them to.

I don't know that mine got much larger, but for women growing muscle BIGGER is so slow that you'll never have an issue stopping your growth if you decide you like it where it's at. What did happen to me is that the shape of my shoulders has changed quite a bit, and it looks much better than it did before my last cut. I don't have a really good picture to show you a difference, but my current avitar is before my latest bulk, and this is a picture of me from this morning, half way through a 12-week cut so you can get an idea-ish:



My arms have only gotten slightly bigger, mostly they're just way more defined, so if you're worried about going up in size - don't. I work shoulders really heavily at least once a week, sometimes twice, and the actual size change has been minimal. Plus, it happens really slowly. It's not like you'll wake up one morning with delts twice the size they were the day before.

[stephanielynn76]

Unless you have a shoulder injury, why would you want to omit training shoulders?

The standing Overhead or Military Press is one of the Main Big Lifts. Barring injury, IMHO, if you don't overhead press, you don't "lift." I'm all for nixing a "shoulder day" and iso work like laterals, but for functional strength one needs to press.

As an aside, the larger and wider your shoulders appear, the smaller your waist looks.

I'm going to agree with this ^^. I actually love working shoulders and get complimented on my shoulders all the time! However... I am one that NEEDS wider shoulders to balance out my waist and make it look smaller...

[jessicajlin]

I'll try to be as clear as possible...

I'm currently following the LiveFit training routine and the split is:
Chest & Triceps
Back & Biceps
Legs
Shoulders & Abs

My question is, is it necessary to train on your shoulders for any other reason then to have them more defined aesthetically? I personally feel that I'd be happy with arms that are cut and defined, but I don't particularly feel the need to have larger delts (as I have big, wide shoulders anyway and don't want them to appear any larger). Would you need to train your shoulders to help strengthen your back, for example?

I was thinking that instead of doing the shoulder & abs day, I could switch it up to do another day of chest/ triceps or back/ biceps or whatever area might be lagging. And of course, I'd still do the ab part of it.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks!

working out shoulders is certainly necessary to be proportionate
and also by working out shoulders youll have more strength working biceps and triceps