Home Gym - Cable Pulley Set up

[KBKB]

Oh right okay i won't hesitate in arguing with you on this one!

So i should use either screws or bolts, i guess bolts would be stronger because of the additional nut on the end to lock the bolt in place?

Yes. As stated before, you'll want to use a washer on both sides too.

There may be some places where using screws is sufficient. I'd use bolts in all of the spots that really matter. (Like joining the various members at the top corners.)

Either way i guess then i'll have to borrow next doors drill when it comes to it.

If he's okay with that, sure. But a drill is a very handy tool to have. You might want to invest in one...

Okay, well, not sure what to do now, the wood i showed you from that seller, id probably need to buy some of that either way, im guessing the above picture will use less wood than the drawing you posted, do you agree that my best bet is to go for that last image you posted?

Yes, it should use less wood, but will still require some amount of planning. You need to figure out how tall, wide, and deep you want it to be. Once you know those things, you can calculate the length of the wood required. (One simple way to do it would be to make it look like an equilateral triangle when viewed from the end. Each angle would be 60 degrees.

I just have a horrible image something is going to go wrong and it'll end up toppling over, unless i can secure it to the floor with either bolts or those corner braces if need be.

As I suggested earlier, it might be best to make a model first using scrap wood.

I would attach the pulley under the top of the post? Not drill through it? It seems like a lot of pressure would be placed at those corners. I guess these are my 2 options, it's finding the most appropriate eh?

Put the pulley(s) in under the top horizontal beam. As I said before, they don't need to be right at the ends - in fact it'll be better if they aren't right at the ends. If I were doing it, I'd drill a hole through that beam. The beam will be a nominal 4" wide and 6" tall. (Assuming you take my recommendation on the size of wood to use.)

[MartinBoy2]

Right, gotcha. I suppose i need to find out what's going on with the shed situation first. I hear one minute that the walls will be getting done, out of wood, just making good really and sealing them shut, then the possibility of buying an already made shed, so i guess that's delaying starting yet, but there's still planning that needs to be done, so can still make use of that. Actually, we have a drill indoors, for screws, basically a screw drill, so you don't have to use a Phillips screwdriver and such, perhaps that would work, although it may not be powerful enough to drill the holes, but it may be with the correct drill bit, it is a standard electrical drill.

It's dark now, but those beams i sent you the pictures of, i'll go get their measurements now, to give a rough idea of if they'll be effective to use, i guess they will be, there just timber posts, but even if i stack them up together to make them stronger, that's still a couple of beams saved that i won't have to buy.

Im sorry if this seems all unnecessary, but i sure you'll agree that planning is important, more so if you don't know what you're doing like me! As i don't have a clue, and you're practically making it possible, thanks man.

I'll get the measurements of those timber beams outside.


Ok, measured one of the beams, although the width's of the others are about the same, the height may vary slightly as some have been used, but i measured one which was over 8ft, about 8'4, it was higher than the roof, i couldn't stand it up inside. the widths were 2 inches and 3 inches, or 50x76mm, i think there was roughly 4-6 of those beams, should save some money there, even if i have to double them up for extra strength.

Kinda looking forward to getting started, never done something like this before, once i know all i need to and have the right stuff, it's time to crack on!

[MartinBoy2]

Not sure if there's any more planning on can do right now? Out of those beams i have could i use a few of those? If i went for a swing type design, which would use less wood, would it be as sturdy for this reasoning? I guess i need to know what's happening with the shed but i could still design this cable cross-over no matter what the outcome, would i need to buy some of those pressure treated timbers still? Sorry if this is brief, just thought id sent a message quickly.

[KBKB]

Not sure if there's any more planning on can do right now? Out of those beams i have could i use a few of those? If i went for a swing type design, which would use less wood, would it be as sturdy for this reasoning? I guess i need to know what's happening with the shed but i could still design this cable cross-over no matter what the outcome, would i need to buy some of those pressure treated timbers still? Sorry if this is brief, just thought id sent a message quickly.

Properly implemented, I think the swing (A-Frame) type design can be very strong.

But I also think it'd be a good idea of your to build a 1/8 scale model (or thereabouts) due to your lack of experience with tools. (So, if you plan on making something that's eight feet tall, your model would be one foot tall.) You can practice on the scrap you have and when it comes time to use lumber that you purchase, there'll be less chance of you ruining it from not properly making a mitre cut, or some such. Once the model is built, you can check to see if the bracing design is adequate too. Push on it from various angles to make sure the joints all stay in place. If something starts to rotate or pivot, you need to rethink the bracing in that area.

[MartinBoy2]

Thanks for the advice KBKB.

So, provided i build the A-Frame type design correctly, there's no reason why it shouldn't be as strong as what i was originally planning on doing (your diagram)? I suppose, even at the end of it all, if it's not as strong as id like or need it to be, i could possibly add more pieces of timber to it to double up it's strength? I guess where it'll likely use less wood than the original design that's where i have my questions from.

I may make a scale model, that seems a good idea, i'll look into that over the next few days. So you think i should buy one of those mitre boxes too? I think the local DIY shop should have one, hopefully not too expensive either. Is the mitre box essential? I'm just asking out of curiosity not to save a few pounds as i will probably buy one anyway.

So what tools am i going to need for the full product?

A drill with a screw/bolt fixings so fit into the wood.
The various pieces of timber.
Mitre box?
May need a corner brace for added stability, hopefully if it needs it i can whack a few nails into the floor going through the wood to help secure it.
4x Swivel pulleys - 2 for high pulleys, 2 for low - will i actually need 2 high pulleys? On second thought, maybe should just do them anyway.
2x Loading pins, from that DIY video, i should be able to get a pipe from a plumbing store? I hope i don't need no special equipment to do the threading on the end of the pipe though.
Nylon coated cable
Carabinas
Stopper ball
Saw
Washers
Screws/Bolts
Cable handles


Think that's about it?

[KBKB]

So, provided i build the A-Frame type design correctly, there's no reason why it shouldn't be as strong as what i was originally planning on doing (your diagram)? I suppose, even at the end of it all, if it's not as strong as id like or need it to be, i could possibly add more pieces of timber to it to double up it's strength? I guess where it'll likely use less wood than the original design that's where i have my questions from.

I may make a scale model, that seems a good idea, i'll look into that over the next few days. So you think i should buy one of those mitre boxes too? I think the local DIY shop should have one, hopefully not too expensive either. Is the mitre box essential? I'm just asking out of curiosity not to save a few pounds as i will probably buy one anyway.

So what tools am i going to need for the full product?

A drill with a screw/bolt fixings so fit into the wood.
The various pieces of timber.
Mitre box?
May need a corner brace for added stability, hopefully if it needs it i can whack a few nails into the floor going through the wood to help secure it.
4x Swivel pulleys - 2 for high pulleys, 2 for low - will i actually need 2 high pulleys? On second thought, maybe should just do them anyway.
2x Loading pins, from that DIY video, i should be able to get a pipe from a plumbing store? I hope i don't need no special equipment to do the threading on the end of the pipe though.
Nylon coated cable
Carabinas
Stopper ball
Saw
Washers
Screws/Bolts
Cable handles


Think that's about it?

That looks like a reasonable list. Print it out or transcribe it onto a piece of paper and then add to it or refine the details (i.e. lengths, diameters, etc) as you think about it some more and as you build your model.

With regard to some of your questions...

A-Frame design:

Do a search and read about it. You'll find that many load bearing structures - roofs of houses, bridges, et al - will incorporate this type of design into their structure.

Mitre box / saw & tools in general

I have done wood working on and off throughout my life. I have a certain level of competency, but I'm not really good at it. I strive to become better at it with each project I work on.

One thing I have found is that good tools can - to a certain degree - make up for skill and technique. A very skilled carpenter can take a hand saw and cut a piece of wood at a desired angle. The result will be a nice square & cut at the desired angle. I cannot do this. I do not think that many people can do this any longer as it's probably becoming something of a lost art. I can, however, cut a piece of wood using a mitre box and end up with a result that's close to that of the highly skilled carpenter.

You should do a bit more planning and figure out the various angles that you'll need to cut. It would not do to purchase a mitre box / saw that cannot handle the requisite angles.

Finally, I'll note that the purchase of good tools can be a lifetime investment. I've never regretted the purchase of good tools. I have regretted buying less expensive tools. (It is frustrating when a poor tool cannot be made to adjust as much as desired or will not hold an adjustment, once made.)

The need for two high pulleys:

I want you to work this one out for yourself. Visualize it if you can, or draw a diagram. You want two low pulleys, right? Draw a diagram of how it'll work with two low pulleys and only one high pulley.

[KBKB]

Martin PM'd me a few rough drawings of the cable set-up. I'm posting them here for further discussion:





Here is my own drawing of how I think the cables should be arranged for hi / lo pulley work:



In the part of my drawing labeled "High Pulley", only the high pulley is used. The arrow at the end shows the direction of force.

The "High and Low Pulley" part of the diagram shows that both the high and low pulleys need to be used to do low pulley work.

In some earlier post of mine, I believe I described this arrangement already...

(Edit: Go back and read post #19 for a description of how to make this work.)

(Edit again: Also go back and reread the last paragraph in post #53.)

[MartinBoy2]

Ughh, lost my original post so this may seem very brief.

Re-read both those posts and done some thinking.

The high pulley is of course easier to do, and the low pulley is what presents the actual problems. From your high pulley drawing, i could drill a hole through the piece of wood that would be at the top of the A-frame and then attach a carabina clip onto that. I could then attach a pulley into the clip and run the cable through that. The site where i can buy the gym equipment from (cables, stopper balls, clips) charges delivery, so it would make sense to buy all the materials in one go. The nylon coated cable rated to 960kgs is around £3.50 for a metre of cable, and £8 with delivery. If the height of the wood is going to be near enough 8ft, then 8ft = 2.5 metres, so im going to need at least 5 metres of cable.

The stopper balls i would attach to behind of the handle at the location of the high pulley. This would stop the cable sliding through when letting go of the high pulley.

The low pulley is more difficult as where the high pulley cable would end to fit onto the attachment it has to keep running. Not sure how this would work. Id use the same principle as if i were using a high pulley, except now the cable would be longer. Where the cable would dangle down from the high pulley as it goes through, this shouldn't interfer with the same cable and loading pin which would be parallel behind it. Then i would need the same principle for the bottom piece of wood. Perhaps drill a small hole enough to attach a carabiner to, then attach the swivel pulley to the carabiner with the cable running through, and a stopper ball behind the end attachment.

Ive probably missed something as my original message got deleted as i mispressed a key, but i think that's a good start.

[KBKB]

For each end, you need two cables, each of roughly the same length.. (You'll need four cables total.)

One cable runs from the high pulley to the loading pin. It terminates in a loop with an attached carabiner.

The other piece of cable is only slightly longer. It runs from the low pulley (whose end is terminated in a loop and a carabiner also) to the carabiner for the high pulley. That high end of the low-pulley cable is terminated in a loop so that the high pulley cable may be attached to the low pulley cable.

Don't forget too that you will need to offset the low pulley in order to avoid interference with the loading pin. This is partly, but only partly, responsible for the fact that the low pulley cable will need to be somewhat longer. (The other factor is that less cable is needed for the high cable due to the fact that it's attached to the loading pin; i.e. the high pulley cable does not need to reach all the way from the pulley to the floor, whereas the low pulley cable will.)

[MartinBoy2]

4 Cables would make up what, 1 high pulley and 2 low pulleys? Should i include 2 high pulleys, i mean the other end low pulley may need one anyway.

I guess i need to find out how many metres of cable will be used, if the thing is 8ft in height at both ends which makes sense that's 5 metres already.

Where it terminates, won't it terminate just after it has gone through the high pulley just short of where whatever attachment would be used, this would make sense for the high pulley, but to use the low pulley, id have to take apart this cable as it wouldn't be long enough?

Ok, after reading further down, id need some sort of clamp to tie a loop in the cable for when they're not in use? Say if i wanted to use the low pulley and then after the high pulley, id need to take the cable out of the clamp and put it in a clamp for the high pulley?

Had trouble understanding the last paragraph - im stupid i know. The low pulley would have to be further in front of the loading pin as shown in your high + low pulley drawing on the right so it doesn't get hit by the loading pin when it action, i understand that, is that all you're trying to say?

[KBKB]

4 Cables would make up what, 1 high pulley and 2 low pulleys? Should i include 2 high pulleys, i mean the other end low pulley may need one anyway.

If you want a low pulley, a corresponding high pulley is needed in order to redirect the cable so that the loading pin may be pulled upward. Therefore, you need at least four pulleys total. Additional pulleys may be purchased if you want to redirect the cable in other potentially useful ways.

Where it terminates, won't it terminate just after it has gone through the high pulley just short of where whatever attachment would be used, this would make sense for the high pulley, but to use the low pulley, id have to take apart this cable as it wouldn't be long enough?

Ok, after reading further down, id need some sort of clamp to tie a loop in the cable for when they're not in use? Say if i wanted to use the low pulley and then after the high pulley, id need to take the cable out of the clamp and put it in a clamp for the high pulley?

You will need to find out how to make (and secure) a small loop in each end of the cable. For the type of cable that you have in mind, I do not know the best way to do this. The loops should be large enough to pass whatever carabiners (or snap-links) you choose to use. On the bottom end of the high cable pulley, the loop will be used to connect that end to the loading pin. At the top end, the carabiner will be used to attach various handles/bars to the cable for doing high pulley work.

When you want to do low pulley work, you will detach the handle/bar from the high pulley cable. You will then pull the end of the low pulley cable up and attach the loop at the end to the carabiner still attached to the high end of the high pulley cable. You will then attach a pulley or bar to the other (low) end of the low pulley cable. There is no danger of the loops or carabiners running through the pulleys due to the fact that the range of motion will be restricted by the loading pin. (The loading pin is constrained to a seven foot or so movement.)

You will need 6 carabiners total. (Three per side.)

Had trouble understanding the last paragraph - im stupid i know. The low pulley would have to be further in front of the loading pin as shown in your high + low pulley drawing on the right so it doesn't get hit by the loading pin when it action, i understand that, is that all you're trying to say?

Yep.

[MartinBoy2]

Ok, i think im starting to understand things a bit clearer now with the alternating systems of high and low pulleys. So im going to need 4 pulleys anyway, so may aswell make it 2 high and 2 low. Swivel pulleys seem to be the best to go for, so that i can pull them from different angles rather than a fixed angle that the pulley is set to. With connecting the high and low pulley cables, would i put both ends into a clamp clip, i'll try to find an image as Ive seen something which i think will work for this purpose, i'll attach it in a second.

[MartinBoy2]

Sorry it's been a short while, i have gathered together more spare wood from the stuff we were going to be burning, i guess i should make a start in the near future. Going away shortly though for a week but then we should start to get down to business!!

[KBKB]

If you haven't seen it yet, you should look at this thread:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=137675683

[MartinBoy2]

Haven't seen that one before, thanks mate!

Edit: Great stuff, seems simple enough, the beams i have to that are pretty identical too

[MartinBoy2]

Hey KBKB. Im sorry it's been a while, i haven't forgotten the amazing advice and time you have put in to help me, just been a bit busy as of late. Have a lot of dysfunctional problems that i am trying to correct and get help from but haven't been to successful in doing so. I am fairly broke at the moment but hopefully should have some money together soon for some materials so i can get started! The weather has also been raining a fair bit lately so that messes things up a bit too.

I have a lot coming up in the next week or so but i am going to try this soon. Hopefully i won't of forgotten too much and if it's not too much to ask id like to continue where we left off sometime in the near future when i start this project. Im still unsure of what is happening to the shed, although what we have at the moment is a complete mess. Water all on the concrete, slugs and crap in there, nice lol.

Either way, i was thinking, if that back masonry wall stays, then perhaps i could whack the beams into that for extra support. I mean, if the beams are free standing, as in the whole frame was supported by itself, if i were to tie, say a band onto it, and pull on it with my weight and force, i have to be confident it's not going to tilt or move at all as that could be dangerous. So if the masonary wall stays, i could possibly use that to my advantage, whack a few beams into there for additional support, and coming off of the wall from, even 2 beams, should hopefully be enough so that the weight on the loading pin doesn't interfer with the wall, provided we go for the A-frame base design. If not something like in that video would be cool, provided there was places to add in low pulleys.

If not im sure there's ways around it, even if corner braces or what not have to be bought, it seems possible!

So just wanted to drop by and say thanks again as it really has been good use for me to have input from you, thanks man.

[MartinBoy2]

Heyyy,

Just thought id post again as i know i keep saying about it, but i am looking forward to eventually starting this and feel it will be a good experiment - provided it does not cost me a lot of money because that, i can do without right now! Lol.

Anyway, it started earlier when i had to put in a new washing line as the old one was worn. Just tied a knot in the rope to the end of the other, although i need to get better at knots, (shouldn't be too difficult) and then threaded the rope through the pulley wheel, and back down straight down to some small clip device we have screwed into the wall. Don't know the specific name, but im sure you know what it is. It's got a square type shaped middle, and above and below it are a pointy shape ends where you can keep winding the rope round.

Doing this made me excited about starting the project, as it's similar to how a high pulley would work, which im still confident with, low pulley may take some trial and error, but id prefer it, if it didn't, as i can't really afford to pay out much for this at all right now, which is mostly why it's being put on hold.

Another thing, i want to start training with a punch bag, got an old one over a bsale for £0.50, only basic, but it's a start on the stepping stone, it has a clip, i could throw over some rope over a beam in the garden, and possibly try to attach a carabina clip and attach it there, or if it's something id stick at, i could buy a wall mount punch bag holder, as they come with a pull up bar already, but there around £35. Plus if i keep the pull up bar design to go with my cable crossover system, im hoping i can somehow self spot dumbbells for certain lifts if possible, db chest, ohp, etc.