I don't understand why people actually think...

[tonytoo]

that they can do some type of diet and that just by eating certain foods they can lose weight. I really don't understand how people get to this point of... delusion.

it's not even an IQ based thing, it's just f*cking deluded. like even people that don't understand that they need X amount of protein and X amount of fat or x and x reasons a day.... should still understand the basic concept of more food or less food. you eat more food you get fat, you eat less food you get thin?

right? wrong? ... I just don't understand psychology of it. how do people get to be so magically trusting that they actually believe the stuff other people are telling them without any kind of testing process or evidence?

- I have a Histrionic Personality Disorder, it is very similar to a Narcissistic personality disorder in that I have no emotional development, empathy, or ego development. and this causes me to do/see wierd things with people some times.
- for example: sometimes I "see" the emotional world of other people sometimes.... (mostly by backwards analysis of assuming that what they say or do is correct and/or true (at least in their eyes) - it's part of the reason histrionics and narcissist are so good at manipulating people (at least thats my theory why))... but what I still can't fathom is how people can actually not see that some stuff just can't work by default.

more food = more fat. less food = less fat.
(it just naturally made sense to me even before I learned about bodybuilding and dieting!)

calories in > calories out = weight gain. calories out > calories in = weight loss.
(minus, of course changes in stored body sources of calories - hormone balances can play an important role here)

where do they get this idea after living for 40 or 50 or even 60 years that they can just go and eat X and X and just magically lose all this ****ing weight? or get X and X body composition change?




tonight, I'm not even venting on the keto and bodybuilding world forums. tonight, I'm just talking about my own parents. - seriously. I didn't know wether to post this on another forum for psychology or here on BB.com

[tonytoo]

I mean, is it me that is deluded here? or am I missing something?

[Heracles26]

you know, half of all of your posts make
some sense.. but the other half is ****. i
cant decide if ur actually a person with
purpose, or just an ignorant *******. i
think its more of the latter. you know, your
kind of people sicken me. and i truly mean
that. on one hand, your a kind and caring
person with morals and values, smiling to
strangers and helping old ladys cross the
street. on the other hand when your back is
turned you become a lying, cheating,
stealing criminal whos only intentions is to
take and take from anybody and
everybody. even worse is that your an
*******. ill bet top dollar that you've spit
in peoples food who have been nothing but
nice to you. and thats the difference. but go
ahead. keep doing what u do because i
happen to believe in karma.. and boy is it a
bitch

[tonytoo]

you know, half of all of your posts make
some sense.. but the other half is ****. i
cant decide if ur actually a person with
purpose, or just an ignorant *******. i
think its more of the latter. you know, your
kind of people sicken me. and i truly mean
that. on one hand, your a kind and caring
person with morals and values, smiling to
strangers and helping old ladys cross the
street. on the other hand when your back is
turned you become a lying, cheating,
stealing criminal whos only intentions is to
take and take from anybody and
everybody. even worse is that your an
*******. ill bet top dollar that you've spit
in peoples food who have been nothing but
nice to you. and thats the difference. but go
ahead. keep doing what u do because i
happen to believe in karma.. and boy is it a
bitch

and you sound like my mother.

[Heracles26]

and you sound like my mother.

just playing, will read ur thread 2moro

[tonytoo]

just playing, will read ur thread 2moro

cool. thanks.

I would like to know your thoughts on it.

[DMurph51]

Meh...

I believe that some people just don't have a basic understanding of how the body works and thus have the capacity to believe things like you mentioned. Ignorance is bliss.

[ananf72]

lol... Really like the vent. It's well justified. So I'll vent with you. Yes, frustrating as hell to keep reading the same lack of understanding over and over. But there was a time when you (tony) and I were both in that group also. We are open minded and came here to learn and share so... imo, people who go on a diet often times are 'desperate'. This leads to grasping at concepts that might not be otherwise logical. Never a great mindset. By believing that certain diets (keto in this case) possess magical properties, they are gaining a sense of hope. In essence, the belief itself does work to some degree. But, I have a list of keto burnout members a mile long in the past few months and the failure comes from going to extremes. Extreme isn't fantastic for the long term. When the rebound happens, they blame keto 'for not working'. It's a diet. Diets generally work short term. Lifestyle changes work long term. Keto can be a fantastic lifestyle if followed realistically.
Having said that, the 'calories is not a calorie' confuses a lot of ppl. Macros are not the same. GI foods are not the same. If calories are not indeed calories, what is the definition of the various calories (other than belonging to different macro groups or GI)? We already have that differentiation. The IIFYM is equally misunderstood. It's moderation plain and simple with the emphasis on balancing whole foods with foods that you love but shouldn't eat in abundance. This is a concept that is helpful for long term eating. Alan has an article that is particularly helpful when addressing high and low GI foods and how your body processes them. From an anecdotal perspective, I found it was right on. Does that mean I no longer follow or believe in keto? Nope. I just know how to incorporate carbs to *my* advantage and have my nitrate loaded bacon, pig skins or whatever I want within reason (accounts for 10% of my intake). Sad to see so many are missing this point and even sadder to see so many will fail and give up before ever understanding that they needed patience and moderation.
In attempts to avoid food discrimination, we've discriminated against each other... fine, disagree... no hate.

/vent

[Wtf?]

I just don't understand psychology of it. how do people get to be so magically trusting that they actually believe the stuff other people are telling them without any kind of testing process or evidence?

The testing process was my own. It's that simple. I go by how I feel on this diet compared to another diet or eating x x x of something else. Fact is, I do not do well on carbs whether it's pizza or plain oatmeal in water. Fact is that I feel better eating a damn salad or a few chicken breasts than other foods.

I don't magically trust. I'm just open minded and try different things and use my own judgement. I tried other things before..didn't like it or it didn't work so I quit.

lol@narcistic. I inherited the narcistic gene from a parent and I still odn't consider myself someone who got sucked into a fad diet. There's 100's of diets out there. Hell, when I was in highschool I tried the anorexic diet. It worked but I didn't like it and quit it.

[tonytoo]

it's good to hear that there are other semi-logical or semi-reasonabl people out here. the desperation idea makes a lot of sense, they get panicy and desperate I guess makes sense.

my dad "thinks" he is getting borderline diabetes because he losing feeling in his toes. when he went to the doctor the doctor told him it was a nerve going dead because he has left his (super thick) wallet in the same//on the same spot for too long in his jeans. and it is rubbing a nerve dead in his leg, and it is making his toes tingle. now all of a sudden he thinks he has diabetes and wont listen to the doctor (who I know is a good one) and is now trying to eat all these magical fruits because they will cure his over weight belly - and hence, apparently, cure his diabetes. which ain't a bad connection, get rid of belly get rid of diabetes, I mean that makes sort of sense...but like magically eating all this EXTRA food? come on. fighting with him at the grocery store is getting nutty. and listening to him talk about at the house how he needs to lose all this weight so he is going to eat all this fruit is really getting old.

[ananf72]

So you think I'm semi-logical??? YES! I'll take it! I've got my fair share of ho-science still.
Damn, it's hard when it's your own parents. Mine are difficult in this regard also... old school ex bodybuilders though. Sorry to hear...

[tonytoo]

So you think I'm semi-logical??? YES! I'll take it! I've got my fair share of ho-science still.
Damn, it's hard when it's your own parents. Mine are difficult in this regard also... old school ex bodybuilders though. Sorry to hear...

thanks, I feel better now.

/rantover

[Scouse_Jules]

A lot of people are lazy and gullible. People want to lose weight but will often use excuses (yet valid reasons to them) as to why thet became fat, for example, family life, depression etc etc and while some of these cases may be genuine, lots just arn't.

I lost 5 stone last year, started university in September and had put on all the weight lost within 6 months. Was it the workload I had at uni that didnt allow me an hour per day to gym it and so lead me to put this weight back on. I have used this line, but really no it wasnt.

People will reach out for the latest dieting craze, believing the rubbish spouted by an over paid 3rd rate celebrity, and looking in wonder of heavily photoshopped before and after pics.... if they didnt there would not be a multi billion dollar industry based around this.

But it isnt just the diet industry that leads the gullible up the path as though following the pied piper. Where there is a need people will take advantage as people want something for nothing.

[jiggacity]

It's called denial. Kind of like how instead of you understanding that you're an *******. You claim to yourself and everyone else that you have a "Histrionic Personality Disorder"

Soon everyone wakes up. Just be patient. You'll feel a lot better.

[Cumulonimbus]

tonytoo, meet life.

In life people are dumb

Enjoy your stay!

[BlueRev]

Everyone wishs there is a miracle diet/pill.
But the sad truth is it takes hard work and time.
and that is something not many people will giveup.

[jrzguy]

There are a lot of studies that keto diet works, and allows people to lose bodyfat and gain muscle at the same time. Just look on NIH and you'll see thousands (well maybe hundreds lol). That being said the diet alone won't do crap, you need an exercise regimen to go with it. That is the case with any diet out there. Calries in / Calories Out plays a role, but so does the nutrient intake, effect on metabolism, medical conditions, person's response to certain nutrients, etc, etc. If it works for people and makes them feel better about themselves, why change it, right?

[BlueRev]

There are a lot of studies that keto diet works, and allows people to lose bodyfat and gain muscle at the same time. Just look on NIH and you'll see thousands (well maybe hundreds lol). That being said the diet alone won't do crap, you need an exercise regimen to go with it. That is the case with any diet out there. Calries in / Calories Out plays a role, but so does the nutrient intake, effect on metabolism, medical conditions, person's response to certain nutrients, etc, etc. If it works for people and makes them feel better about themselves, why change it, right?

Any diet works.
The twinkie diet worked.
The mcdonald diet worked.
Its all about calories in vs calories out.

Now do some diets show better long term health?
Yes.
But thats not the point of the convo.

[DustyChicago]

Journal of the American Medical Association, 2007

Gardner et al., 2007[52] studied 311 overweight women each following one of four diet plans (Atkins, Zone, LEARN, and Ornish) in 12-month trials. The authors concluded the following.

In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets. While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss.

----

And this study was led by a vegetarian. I'm sorry you're frustrated, although its unclear what is bothering you. Maybe this is a bodybuilding forum and populated with people that are already acclimated to monitoring their own nutrition and body composition to reach specific goals. But for fat people, one of the things this study shows is that the diet that performed best was the diet where dieters were encouraged to "eat as much as you want" as opposed to LEARN, and Ornish where dieters had to monitor cals in/cals out.

[BlueRev]

Journal of the American Medical Association, 2007

Gardner et al., 2007[52] studied 311 overweight women each following one of four diet plans (Atkins, Zone, LEARN, and Ornish) in 12-month trials. The authors concluded the following.

In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets. While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss.

----

And this study was led by a vegetarian. I'm sorry you're frustrated, although its unclear what is bothering you. Maybe this is a bodybuilding forum and populated with people that are already acclimated to monitoring their own nutrition and body composition to reach specific goals. But for fat people, one of the things this study shows is that the diet that performed best was the diet where dieters were encouraged to "eat as much as you want" as opposed to LEARN, and Ornish where dieters had to monitor cals in/cals out.

In defense of the other diets carbs are over eaten much easier then fats
No matter how you look at it its calories in vs calories out
The reason most likely the people lost more weight etc is because they ate less due to fats/proteins filling them up for longer thus taking in less calories.

[DMurph51]

one of the things this study shows is that the diet that performed best was the diet where dieters were encouraged to "eat as much as you want" as opposed to LEARN, and Ornish where dieters had to monitor cals in/cals out.

since when is keto a "be a cot damn glutton and eat as much **** you can stuff down your pie hole" diet?

a ketogenic diet is all about adhering to your allotted macro nutrients, which are derived from your daily caloric allowance. you CAN NOT eat bacon ad libitum on the ketogenic diet, simply because it contains no carbs. if it doesnt fit your macros, you will eventually become a fatass, i guarantee you that.

[BlueRev]

since when is keto a "be a cot damn glutton and eat as much **** you can stuff down your pie hole" diet?

a ketogenic diet is all about adhering to your allotted macro nutrients, which are derived from your daily caloric allowance. you CAN NOT eat bacon ad libitum on the ketogenic diet, simply because it contains no carbs. if it doesnt fit your macros, you will eventually become a fatass, i guarantee you that.

I had my greatest fatloss results when i was eating 6-7 pieces of bacon every morning for breakfast.
And keto is not just a cut diet..
keto can also be used to bulk.....

[tonytoo]

I had my greatest fatloss results when i was eating 6-7 pieces of bacon every morning for breakfast.
And keto is not just a cut diet..
keto can also be used to bulk.....

that's not very much food every day....

[DMurph51]

I had my greatest fatloss results when i was eating 6-7 pieces of bacon every morning for breakfast.
And keto is not just a cut diet..
keto can also be used to bulk.....

6-7 pieces of bacon fit your macros. i was referring to how dustychicago said that because it was allowed on the keto diet, you could eat an unlimited amount of it. if you eat as much bacon as you want during a day, and it doesnt fit your macros, you will get fat.

i was speaking of cutting because most people who post use keto to cut.

[DustyChicago]

In defense of the other diets carbs are over eaten much easier then fats
No matter how you look at it its calories in vs calories out
The reason most likely the people lost more weight etc is because they ate less due to fats/proteins filling them up for longer thus taking in less calories.

To be sure, the study demonstrated that all diets work and I agree that this is because of calries in versus calories out. That being said, some people suggest, and I agree with them, that the very reason why the low-carb diet was more effective was because of better adherence, and there are plenty of good reasons why this is the case.

I think DMurph's response reflects what I originally pointed to: that for an audience like that of BB.com, macros are important as people like us have become used to understanding calories, counting them, and seeing results based on them... but for "average people" the advice of "eat as much as you want" actually produced better results than, say the ornish diet which gave specific instructions on keeping a cal deficit and eating certain foods. So we agree that gluttony will lead to fat gain, but I think you obscure the point when you phrase it as you did: gluttony, as the cited study demonstrated, is goddamn difficult in absence of significant amounts of carbohydrate.

[FistMeetsFoam]

I agree you have to watch the calories no matter what you eat, I agree there is no magical diet or food but... It's more complicated than calories in calories out, it has a lot to do with the person and what they can handle, how they process certain types of food, insulin response etc. Personally if I ate 2000 calories a day of donuts instead of 2000 calories a day of meat, cheese, and some veggies then I would gain weight non stop. If it was only about calories then it would be impossible to Plateau and stop losing weight while consuming the same amount of calories adjusted for lost weight.

As far as low carb there are tons of studies, materials, personal experiences that can bear witness to it's effectiveness, not that it's the only way to lose weight by any means but for someone with bad carb and sugar tolerances it can be the most effective.

I actually used to be a huge proponent of calories in calories out until I realized I was eating well below my maintain calories but not losing weight, as soon as I cut back on the carbs, eating the same and a little more calories I started dropping weight consistently. The proof is in the (sugar free) pudding.

[Cumulonimbus]

I had my greatest fatloss results when i was eating 6-7 pieces of bacon every morning for breakfast.
And keto is not just a cut diet..
keto can also be used to bulk.....

Hahahaha... very optimal