HELP!!! Skipload/Re-Feed GONE WRONG!? 3 weeks out!

[StringBean12]

Long time visitor, first time poster...here's the skinny


I'm in my 3rd prep this summer, next show is the 13th of August, last Saturday made 3 weeks out on the dot. Well, long story short, last Saturday morning I hit my all-time prep low of 207 (I'm also 6'3"), due to the constant hovering of the 208-207 mark the week prior my trainer (informal) suggested I conduct a skip-load or a three hour window of where I take in lots of cereal, low fat pop-tarts, baked chips and a bit of Ben & Jerry's Fro-Yo until full. Needless to say, at the moment, I had NO problem following this instruction at all.

Now for the bad, Sunday AM I awoke just a pound over at 208. However, this morning 3 days after the "skipload" (bad idea), I'm 210. THIS, after even conducting an extra L.I. session of 40 mins. every day since Sunday. I haven't lowered my carbs and I actually skipped my scheduled re-feed yesterday out of guilt and fear that I can't get back down to 207.

I do look much fuller and my workouts have been the shiznit (obviously) and I still have abdominal vascularity, however, I do feel more watery and have a slight film over my abdominal/lower back area.


What would you do if you were me? Continue the extra evening session of cardio (BTW, my regular schedule is 7 days a week, 2 HIIT & 5 LI sessions) or just moderately reduce carbs/fat this week?

Thanks kindly in advance, for all the wise input!!!

[StringBean12]

i also forgot to mention I have another scheduled refeed approaching on Leg Day which is this Friday, should I skip or keep? Thank you!

[fltallpaul]

Can you provide a better picture for us to disect?

Daily Macro intake, refeed macros, weight lost since the beginning and some pictures would be very helpful.

I can tell you from my experience that you don't want to go crazy adding cardio and reducing calories, or cutting out your refeeds. It sounds like you are possibly over dieted already with that much cardio. You may have a stalled metabolism which caused the extra storage. Refeeds done correct have the effect of allowing your body to return to normal hormonal levels during a deficiet. I know I personally always lose my weight right after a refeed.

Don't stress too much, that can also cause problems.

[StringBean12]

Can you provide a better picture for us to disect?

Daily Macro intake, refeed macros, weight lost since the beginning and some pictures would be very helpful.

I can tell you from my experience that you don't want to go crazy adding cardio and reducing calories, or cutting out your refeeds. It sounds like you are possibly over dieted already with that much cardio. You may have a stalled metabolism which caused the extra storage. Refeeds done correct have the effect of allowing your body to return to normal hormonal levels during a deficiet. I know I personally always lose my weight right after a refeed.

Don't stress too much, that can also cause problems.

Thank you sir, my current macros are 285p/180c/60f with two weekly refeeds of 235p/290c/50f

[cmamath13]

My $0.02...

Just get back on diet and do a extra cardio to catch up. Your calories and/or carbs don't seem low enough to need a refeed @ 3 weeks out, unless you are doing a ton of working out.

Who is doing your prep?

[fltallpaul]

Thank you sir, my current macros are 285p/180c/60f with two weekly refeeds of 235p/290c/50f

Those sound like solid numbers. Although if you are stuck it might be time to drop them or add some more intense cardio sessions. Sounds like you are on track and should really listen to your coach. It would not be prudent to take advice from anyone else at this crucial time. Asses how happy you are after you compete.

[areya2005]

I Skipload weekly, so maybe I can provide some insight. And btw, are you doing the Presidential Cup?

Anyways, with the Skipload, water weight will go up for sure. Waking up up to 10lbs higher isn't uncommon with the food in your GI tract, water, glycogen, etc. I've even had times where my weight goes up 2-3 days after the load, like as if the carbs took extra time to fill me out. I wouldn't be concerned one bit with the number right now, but rather right before your next load. Even you said, you're a lot fuller, and feel watery, which are also gunna show on the scale as an increase in weight.

Keep in mind, with the Skipload, you're SUPPOSED to spillover, and spend the week controlling and expelling the water. Three days is nowhere near enough to do that. ****...I take 6 days or so, 2-3 heavy workouts, and 2-3 higher rep workouts. Also, remember the point of the load is to boost levels of leptin and increase your metabolism. I find it highly unlikely you added fat during 4 hours.

You're also stressing out, which is increasing your cortisol production, thus causing you to retain water. I'm not Skip, nor an expert, but the best thing to do is get back to your regular routine and don't do anything drastic that may mess things up. If you've been on track, a four hour carb load isn't going to mess up that much.

If by chance you are doing the PC and are in the DC area, we should get together, do a few workouts and some posing!

[str8flexed]

not everyone tolerates heavy carb ups the same. again there is a MAJOR problem with taking one protocol or principle and trying to apply it to everyone when it comes to macronutrient intake

[areya2005]

not everyone tolerates heavy carb ups the same. again there is a MAJOR problem with taking one protocol or principle and trying to apply it to everyone when it comes to macronutrient intake

Agreed. I started using the "Skipload" protocol at 7 weeks out and found it successful, hence why I continued to do it.

OP, was this your first attempt?

[Rsardinia]

LOL at trainers who suggest binging for periods of time rather than specific amounts of macros. Everyone eats different amounts so to say go nuts for 3 hours on all this crap is stupid. You will probably be ok if you are back on your typical low numbers and you flush the water you retained, but who's to know how many cals you took in during that period of time? You listed a lot of foods and if you were starving you could have taken in a boat load.

Hopefully it worked out but that kind of refeed/cheat always blows my mind.

[areya2005]

LOL at trainers who suggest binging for periods of time rather than specific amounts of macros. Everyone eats different amounts so to say go nuts for 3 hours on all this crap is stupid. You will probably be ok if you are back on your typical low numbers and you flush the water you retained, but who's to know how many cals you took in during that period of time? You listed a lot of foods and if you were starving you could have taken in a boat load.

Hopefully it worked out but that kind of refeed/cheat always blows my mind.

I feel the reason that it works so well for me is because my calories/carbs are so low during the week. When it comes to my Skipload day, I'll ingest a very low amount of fat (~40g) relative to my carb intake (~750g). However, I've had continual progress doing it this way, so no harm being done as opposed to a ~300g refeed.

Don't get me wrong though, for me, it's not a binge at all. Everything is accounted for and pre-planned a few days in advance. Nothing dirty and nothing take-out...I still weigh out and cook everything myself.

In addition, the mental break it provides is unreal, thus decreasing cortisol. While I have some friends waiting 16+ weeks and DYING to eat something other than brown rice and sweet potatoes, I just wait 6 days, and make the same progress. And even if it hinders progress by 1/4 of a pound a week, I'd rather diet 4 weeks longer like this.

Even with these few hours of leniency, one must still manage and measure what's happening. For instance, the first time I tried this type of load, I used 750g of carbs. That week, I lost 4lbs...too much. So the next week, I increased it to 950g carbs, but didn't lose any weight, so I lowered the carb count the next week and have found a "sweet spot" that allows me to fill out without fat gain and also allows me to progress.

[Barn01]

LOL at trainers who suggest binging for periods of time rather than specific amounts of macros. Everyone eats different amounts so to say go nuts for 3 hours on all this crap is stupid. You will probably be ok if you are back on your typical low numbers and you flush the water you retained, but who's to know how many cals you took in during that period of time? You listed a lot of foods and if you were starving you could have taken in a boat load.

Hopefully it worked out but that kind of refeed/cheat always blows my mind.

+1 ^^^

I still hear of "trainers", "diet gurus", spewing this kind of prep advice and it's such a screwed up idea ..... Let's take someone that would eat their shirt if it had any calories, and tell them to GO NUTS for X hours. Then shut down the urges and go back to starving .. oops I mean dieting.

If they only knew what I could consume in a couple hours when told to do so

[Barn01]

For instance, the first time I tried this type of load, I used 750g of carbs. That week, I lost 4lbs...too much. So the next week, I increased it to 950g carbs, but didn't lose any weight

Something not adding up here.

950-750=200

200*4=800cal

800/3500=0.2lbs

How does a theoretical 0.2lbs of fat = 4lbs of weight loss hindered?

I'm not saying it didn't happen ... I'm just saying there's more going on here than your 200g of carbs.

[areya2005]

Something not adding up here.

950-750=200

200*4=800cal

800/3500=0.2lbs

How does a theoretical 0.2lbs of fat = 4lbs of weight loss hindered?

I'm not saying it didn't happen ... I'm just saying there's more going on here than your 200g of carbs.

I was in a little bit of shock myself, and cant even explain it. The protocol was the same, i.e. loaded, then went back to regular diet throughout the week.

Here's my theory....I was STRUGGLING weeks before my first load. Metabolism was probably just dead, and my 250-300g refeeds weren't doing much. So I loaded hard, and in six hours, crushed this 750g of carbs. Maybe that was a huge jolt to my metabolism and lost a ton of weight that week. I'm not even saying all 4lbs. was fat, I'm just telling you what the scale said.

Now in hindsight, the next week, I probably didn't need as big of a load because I "revived" my metabolism. I didn't know that then, but didn't want 4lb losses every week, so I increased the carbs to 950g, where nothing happened. So since then, I've found my "sweet spot" to be in that 650g area and stick to that for continual progress.

Now, my show's is in 2.5 weeks, so I have 2 more loads (this weekend and the next) until peak week begins. To keep it conservative, I'm gunna stick to 550g or so.

[TheNaturalOak]

Something not adding up here.

950-750=200

200*4=800cal

800/3500=0.2lbs

How does a theoretical 0.2lbs of fat = 4lbs of weight loss hindered?

I'm not saying it didn't happen ... I'm just saying there's more going on here than your 200g of carbs.

we all know our bodies are far more complex and there are too many variables for simple math to calculate wtfs going on

[mrusa85]

we all know our bodies are far more complex and there are too many variables for simple math to calculate wtfs going on

Agreed.

If it was ALL numbers, no one would ever need a coach and it would be really, really easy for everyone to come in extremely peeled at every single show -- every time.

[brademan76]

To the original OP, you're refeeding every three days?? The 26th, and then the 29th are your refeed days from how you explained in your original post. Seems crazy to me that you would take advice to do a skipload on Sunday, then refeed on Tuesday and and Friday...

[Barn01]

And most scales aren't accurate to <2lbs of reproducibility. Many are very precise though

Oh and that's why I stated what I did at the bottom of my last post.

[areya2005]

To the original OP, you're refeeding every three days?? The 26th, and then the 29th are your refeed days from how you explained in your original post. Seems crazy to me that you would take advice to do a skipload on Sunday, then refeed on Tuesday and and Friday...

^This. Properly performed, a Skipload usually has 600-2000 calories from carbs alone. There's no way your metabolism is that fast to exhaust that much glycogen in 2-3 days. If so, you wouldn't even need to Skipload.