hack squat vs. leg press

[tbomb]

what's your guys' opinion on this? is it worth doing both? im a smaller guy just looking to put on 10-15 lbs that i lost in the last year from not working out, but i want more prominent legs this time 'round. right now i'm doing hack squats, leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, and seated calves. doing both hack squats and leg presses seems a little redundant to me, but i dont know enough about either of them to eliminate one and be confident that im missing something, so what do you guys think? can i get away with ditching either the hack squat or the leg presses? also, please mention your thoughts on foot position (close together or far apart, high up on the platform or lower down on it - foot position is something that im always messing with, but whatever i think it'll change, it doesn't always work).

thanks.

[Brick]

I don't do any, my gym has no Leg press, so I just stick to Squats, SLDL's, Lunges and mostly for finishers I'll do Leg Extensions and Leg Curl's.

[El galan fuerte]

Originally posted by tbomb
what's your guys' opinion on this? is it worth doing both? im a smaller guy just looking to put on 10-15 lbs that i lost in the last year from not working out, but i want more prominent legs this time 'round. right now i'm doing hack squats, leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, and seated calves. doing both hack squats and leg presses seems a little redundant to me, but i dont know enough about either of them to eliminate one and be confident that im missing something, so what do you guys think? can i get away with ditching either the hack squat or the leg presses? also, please mention your thoughts on foot position (close together or far apart, high up on the platform or lower down on it - foot position is something that im always messing with, but whatever i think it'll change, it doesn't always work).

thanks.

I think they are equtiable in terms of the kind of development you can get from the 2 movements. Some people maintain that hacks are really good for building thigh sweep and i have experienced this myself to come extent yet i don't thgink they are any better than leg presses. There are always gonna be draw backs and good points to any exercise...it would be like asking...which is better smith machine inclines or hammer strength inclines...ya know...
In my opinion a routine is not a real leg routine unless you are doing some sort of squat with a barbell...even though for some people maybe yourself, hacks and leg presses are better. I usually do not do more than one pressing movement for my legs per workout because i feel like you can only hit the legs from som many angles. My advice is to alternate them. in my own quad training i will select one of the following: Barbell Squats, Leg Presses or Smith Machine Squats and i will do 5-8 sets with this movement and then i wil do leg extensions and move on to hamstrings. For Hacks and leg presses use whatever stance is comfortable and allows the most innervation that is my advice...for me i find i get better outer sweep with a close stance--- 6 inches or almost touching. Your inner quads and hamstrings will be worked a little more if you place your feet higher and wider.

[tbomb]

El galan fuerte, thanks a lot. i was thinking about maybe alternating leg presses and hack squats as my 1 pressing exercise every few weeks (that was the problem that i forgot to mention in my first post - too many heavy pressing exercises is killing me, lol).

i'd prefer to not do barbell squats or SLDL's as i'm not comfortable doing them and those are not exercises that i'm willing to try, then do them wrong and injure myself. i'm content with the results i'm getting from my current workout, but like you said, you can only hit the legs from so many angles - i was wondering if the hack squat and the leg press were so different that neither should be neglected.

also, when you said this: "For Hacks and leg presses use whatever stance is comfortable and allows the most innervation that is my advice", what did you mean by "innervation"? im assuming that you meant i should use a foot placement that allows both my quads and hams to be worked equally, as opposed to a foot position that focuses more on one than the other.

thanks.

[D&G]

Originally posted by tbomb


i'd prefer to not do barbell squats

don't be a pussy - squats are one of the best overall mass builders there are, why use inferior exercises.

[tbomb]

Originally posted by D&G
don't be a pussy - squats are one of the best overall mass builders there are, why use inferior exercises.

hack squats and leg presses are not inferior to freeweight squats. there a number of reasons i don't do them; for example, i don't know how to do them properly, and as of right now, i'm not terribly interested in learning how. i'm pretty happy with the results from my current routine. when i start to become unhappy with my results, and i have some motivation to give bb squats a shot, i'll talk to someone at my gym and find out how to do them properly. (i'm just coming off of wrist surgery/injury which kept me from working out for the last 11 months; i don't wanna go jumping into new exercises that could potentially take me out of commission again, right away.) besides, i am a pussy

[D&G]

Originally posted by tbomb
hack squats and leg presses are not inferior to freeweight squats.

Jesus christ man who the hell told you that? That is possibly the most ill-informed statement I have ever heard.

Leg press and hack squats are not even in the same league as barbell squats, nothing bar the deadlift even comes close to the freeweight squat.

[tbomb]

Originally posted by D&G
Jesus christ man who the hell told you that? That is possibly the most ill-informed statement I have ever heard.

Leg press and hack squats are not even in the same league as barbell squats, nothing bar the deadlift even comes close to the freeweight squat.

that's like saying that a hammer strength chest press is inferior to a db bench press. its not inferior, its just different. the machine guides the weight rather than you having to stabilize the motion on your own. you can still get a hell of a workout with the hammer strength chest press.

i know squats are a good exercise and people always claim this and that (everybody's workout is always beterr than everybody else's - i just do what works for me), but i've already said that i don't do them; i don't plan on doing them (at least anytime soon - why fix what ain't broken?); and calling me a pussy and telling me that i'm ill-informed isn't gonna convince me. i may be ill-informed (i'm, most likely, ill-informed about a lot of stuff - that's why i'm here - i'm trying to learn. if i'm wrong, tell me why i'm wrong; i've got an open mind), and i may be a pussy, but so far you've contributed nothing to this thread to answer my questions, help anyone, or convince me of anything.

[amusclehead]

squats > all (Except deadlifts, hehe, they're equal with them)

[D&G]

Damn right the the Hammer strength chest press is inferior to DB press, when you use free weights your using extra muscles to balance the weight, take the need for balance away and your working less. The more muscles you use the more mass building potential the exercise has - the more muscles an exercise works the better it is - that is not opinion that is fact.

It's not just about the movement involved, when you leg press you are isolating the legs. when you squat you are working the whole body - you are using additional muscles to balance the weight - the more muscle you use the more productive the exercise, the more testosterone release the more overall growth.

When you do movements that require you to move the whole body you produce more GH - (growth hormone) - this is why the deadlift and squat are the two greatest exercises bar none, no one will argue with that - the squat and the dead are a cut above every other exercise. Find me someone who says otherwise.

Your simplistic point about moving the weight with a machine falls flat - you need to look into why free weights are superior to machines, why compound movements are better, GH release, multi-joint exercises. It's not just about moving the weight. It's about maximal stimulation

Take a look at all the biggest guys - everyone squats and deadlifts, guys like Schwarzenegger, Coleman - look at their routines they are based around squats and deadlifts, 99% of top bb'ers will incorporate the squat and deadlift in their routine because nothing can replace them, read the posts on these forums - its all about squats and deads if you want to get big - no one sings the praises of leg press or hack squats.

The squat has been described as the 'King of Exercises' since it activates the largest, most powerful muscles in the body and is the greatest test of lower body strength (4, 6, 12). The major muscles that are activated are the ankle, knee and hip extensors, the spinal erectors and the abdominals. As a result the squat is one of the most popular exercises for development of lower body strength and power. It constitutes one of the three competitive lifts in the sport of Powerlifting and the front squat variation is also a component of the 'Clean' lift in weightlifting.

[tbomb]

Originally posted by D&G
Damn right the the Hammer strength chest press is inferior to DB press, when you use free weights your using extra muscles to balance the weight, take the need for balance away and your working less. The more muscles you use the more mass building potential the exercise has - the more muscles an exercise works the better it is - that is not opinion that is fact.

It's not just about the movement involved, when you leg press you are isolating the legs. when you squat you are working the whole body - you are using additional muscles to balance the weight - the more muscle you use the more productive the exercise, the more testosterone release the more overall growth.

When you do movements that require you to move the whole body you produce more GH - (growth hormone) - this is why the deadlift and squat are the two greatest exercises bar none, no one will argue with that - the squat and the dead are a cut above every other exercise. Find me someone who says otherwise.

Your simplistic point about moving the weight with a machine falls flat - you need to look into why free weights are superior to machines, why compound movements are better, GH release, multi-joint exercises. It's not just about moving the weight. It's about maximal stimulation

Take a look at all the biggest guys - everyone squats and deadlifts, guys like Schwarzenegger, Coleman - look at their routines they are based around squats and deadlifts, 99% of top bb'ers will incorporate the squat and deadlift in their routine because nothing can replace them, read the posts on these forums - its all about squats and deads if you want to get big - no one sings the praises of leg press or hack squats.

thanks for explaining - that's a great post, and there's stuff in there that i'm not familiar with, so now i have more reason to look into it. nevertheless, i'm not a bodybuilder. i'm 5'8", 155 lbs soaking wet, who wants to be healthy and look good, and something as complex as a squat exercise just isn't for me at this point. i'm not trying to bulk to any enormous size - i just want to gain back the 15 lbs of muscle that i had a year ago (i'll set new goals once i accomplish this one) - i know i can do this over the course of the next month or so, but for now i want to keep my routine the way i have it, with the exception of maybe ditching the hack squat or leg press - i was trying to get opinions on the differences/similarities/importances of them. though, i appreciate all the info you've provided to me.

[abar]

D&G just drove the nail thru the board. Any exercise that moves your body through space (Oly lifts, squats, deadlifts, SLDLS) are strength builders superior to non-spacial lifts, with the exeption of the bench press. If you look at a list of the most energy consuming lifts (measured by scientists with an EMG), all the top... 8, I believe, are spacial movements, with the bench press being up there too.

You have to be actually mentally "in the zone" to accomplish a squat, or deadlift. You aren't sitting down in a comfy, padded seat (as in the leg press), I don't really know how to say it other than they are "primal" lifts.

Now, you say you don't know HOW to do a squat or deadlift. First off, I would try to find some vids on the internet of proper form, or have someone show you.

For all deadlifts, you need to have your head up, and an arch in your back (I don't mean a rounded back, I mean an arch that has your butt and head further back than the middle of your back. You don't PINCH your shoulder blades together, just have them BACK, so you can PULL the weight. For SLDLs, you are bending over, but you still have your head up, butt out, like you are taking it in the pooper.

Squatting, I'd suggest you do box squats. That way, you know you are goign down far enough (you can set teh box to however you want it, below parralel, above, whatever. You want to sit down on the box like you are going to the bathroom, then move forward and up. Keep your back arched, push out with your stomach. A wider stance will hit your hams and glutes more, and a narrower stance works your quads more.

I hope I helped a bit, please, start squatting!

[El galan fuerte]

Innervation is the ability to feel a muscle working in an exercise...if you are doing bench and you are getting more of an arm and shoulder workout you have not yet gotten a lotta neromuscular pathways and your mind-muscle connection is not enough yet...
I shoulda known there woulda been heatred debates about squats and deadlifts. Let me go on record saying i am a fan of both exercises...this morning at 6 am i deadlifted 405 --some of the heaviest i have pulled and i love squatting. However there are some people that are not built for squats and deadlifts. Both allo you to pack on lots of muscle all over but especially the thighs, lower and upper back and aswell as hips and core. This is a good thing for a bodybuilder...
However certain individuals should avoid them...If you already have the propensity to carry a lotta of size in the waist and hips doing both these 12 mass miracles could mess up your V-Taper and symmetry. Also for some people squatting id difficult becuase these lack ankle flexibility that you need to squat deep-- and you should squat deep if you are gonna do it at all in my opinion. PLus some people find they can get a more direct thigh workout with leg presses because the lower back and lungs will not give out first. A prime example of these was Dorian Yates who squatted for roughly a year and then found his legs were not getting much bigger. Even though people scoffed at this practice (remember dorian was training when tom platz was all the rage with his reliance on squats). Plus who is gonna argue with Dorian's work ethic...he didn't avoid squats because he was being lazy...he was making an intelligent decision to better his goals. I know a lotta people will just say that anyone who does not do the classics like deads and squats is being a lazy weakling...and for sure many people avoid them because they do not have the tenacity and mental fortitude to tackle them...Just wanan say that you have to be open...we are not all the same and the means to the end need not be the same for everyone.

[tbomb]

Originally posted by El galan fuerte
we are not all the same and the means to the end need not be the same for everyone.

well said. i didn't mean to come on here and start a holy war. i'm sure that most of you guys have different goals than i do, as well as personalities, lifestyles, techniques, etc. right now, what i'm doing works for me. when it stops working, maybe i'll try some squats. at least now i have a starting point to do some research on squats and SLDL's from the info i got here.