US Debt History The Real Facts

[FTTP101]

fttp is **** the tea party

[paolo59]

Weren't there some 200 to 300 billions of the initial 'stimulus package' held in reserve, yet unspent? Or does my memory fail me?

[jnwaco]

Weren't there some 200 to 300 billions of the initial 'stimulus package' held in reserve, yet unspent? Or does my memory fail me?

It's almost all been doled out to the states and towns now - however the states and towns have not spent all of it yet. For example, a PA road project was awarded $14 million of stimulus but the county or town has only spent $4 million so far. Still a lot unspent no matter how you look at it. But I guess those long projects are what they are.

[pharmamarketer]

Where's RubberPig..I mean, well, you know who I mean

[GuyJin]

Where's RubberPig..I mean, well, you know who I mean

-------------

Searching for another computer to post more BS...

[paolo59]

Well, the silly saga continues, right through the weekend and into Monday I would suspect. Headlines this morning; Moody's; no plan on the table will work! Who'd have thought? LMAO

I suggest 7 trillion in cuts over the next 10 years with a 'reasonable' tax increase on those making 1 million dollars a year or more. Revamp the tax code within the next 12 months to lower corporate taxes, rid the code of loop-holes and gimmicks, broaden the base, and watch the economy grow!

[gympunk]

Let the Bush tax cuts expire = $4T deficit decrease over the next 10 years

[mslman71]

Let the Bush tax cuts expire = $4T deficit decrease over the next 10 years

Wouldn't that translate into a $5T increase in spending?

[paolo59]

Headlines; A Deal!!!! We've averted a crisis, we can borrow more, and all is well! There are cuts 'to come.' LMFAO Orchestrated status quo! God, I wish our politicians, both Republican and Democrat, had the balls to face what is still a freakin' train wreck barrelling down the tracks! Are we stupid? Do we have *#&$ for brains? Short term, looks good for the upcoming election, either side/heads or tails ~ long term, nothing changed absolutely!

[jnwaco]

Headlines; A Deal!!!! We've averted a crisis, we can borrow more, and all is well! There are cuts 'to come.' LMFAO Orchestrated status quo! God, I wish our politicians, both Republican and Democrat, had the balls to face what is still a freakin' train wreck barrelling down the tracks! Are we stupid? Do we have *#&$ for brains? Short term, looks good for the upcoming election, either side/heads or tails ~ long term, nothing changed absolutely!

Yep. The Kick the Can Down the Road Act will soon be passed, with nothing significant in spending cuts whatsoever to show for it. I wish the House would vote down this bill.

[drudixon]

Wouldn't that translate into a $5T increase in spending?

I don't get it. Explain?

[mslman71]

I don't get it. Explain?

Letting the tax cuts expire would create an increase in revenue (theoretically) which would trigger an increase in spending, at least that's how it appears to me. We already demonstrated that no matter how much revenue there is we'll spend it and then some. The only way letting the tax cuts expire would solve any problem is if spending is capped or reduced. Otherwise we just translate the whole problem down on the number line by some arbitrary amount.

[freebirdmac]

The fat lady hasn't sung. There simply wasn't enough time to really get into the gang of 6's findings/recommendations. I would expect any commission to use their work and based on what I've heard so far, it's going to cause a lot of heartburn from everyone.

[thomashenry]

The fat lady hasn't sung. There simply wasn't enough time to really get into the gang of 6's findings/recommendations. I would expect any commission to use their work and based on what I've heard so far, it's going to cause a lot of heartburn from everyone.

--" Everyone " ? in other words you & I, I am assuming

[freebirdmac]

I think cuts will hit everyone/everything. The gang of six touched every sacred cow out there.

[thomashenry]

I think cuts will hit everyone/everything. The gang of six touched every sacred cow out there.

----As I said you & I are the ones who ultimately pay, by cutting services, raising revenue "taxes" and all the while you & I do whats necessary by working to fill the gap, as it stands it is 100 billion per yr in cuts over 10 years, while they spend 1 + trillion per year, I am by no means an economist, but something doesn`t add up ! it`s frankly a joke, a shell game, both sides are calling the shots in this venture ! I `d ask what is backing the U.S. Currency ?, we pay, they sqaunder and have been for decades ! IMO in it`s simplest forum, millions of hardworking taxpayers regardless of financial stature have been paying for years into a system that has no one minding the store, the utter thievery {and thats what it is} is breathtaking in it`s scope & scale ! and these so called elected represenatives on each side for decades have devastated the once most prosperous and opportunistic nation that mankind has ever seen, to the extent we are beholden to every forum of sadistic manipualtion they can conjure up, including enemies that are the antithesis to the very freedoms that the U.S offers and furthermore sell to unwitting & divided more & more uneducated dupes {the U.S citizen} !
The Gang of 6, a blue ribbon commission ? what happened to open debate and legislation ? and backroom deals, ala Reid and McConell, what the hell is that all about, thats represenative Gov`t ? compromise on everything ? on what our Constitution, Independence, Bill of Rights----Jesus, I am not arguing with you you here I am just pointing out in short what I see !-----When does this insanity come to a head, casue the train is still rolling down the tracks, this Country and it`s elected Reps and a great many of the Citizenry has lost it`s " Common Sense " in regards to what the United States is all about---Somehwere and sooner or later something may cause a fracture in this Country tha likes of which we have not witnessed-----I pray to the Good Lord I am wrong, I hold out that reason and love of Country will win the day inspite of the overwhelming negativity---again I am not attempting to argue or critique what you said Free, just me spouting

[drudixon]

Letting the tax cuts expire would create an increase in revenue (theoretically) which would trigger an increase in spending, at least that's how it appears to me. We already demonstrated that no matter how much revenue there is we'll spend it and then some. The only way letting the tax cuts expire would solve any problem is if spending is capped or reduced. Otherwise we just translate the whole problem down on the number line by some arbitrary amount.

Duh,i shoulda figured you meant that.I'm too bloody slow sometimes. Yeah, they would spend it on something.....



Thx for clarifying

[freebirdmac]

----As I said you & I are the ones who ultimately pay, by cutting services, raising revenue "taxes" and all the while you & I do whats necessary by working to fill the gap, as it stands it is 100 billion per yr in cuts over 10 years, while they spend 1 + trillion per year, I am by no means an economist, but something doesn`t add up ! it`s frankly a joke, a shell game, both sides are calling the shots in this venture ! I `d ask what is backing the U.S. Currency ?, we pay, they sqaunder and have been for decades ! IMO in it`s simplest forum, millions of hardworking taxpayers regardless of financial stature have been paying for years into a system that has no one minding the store, the utter thievery {and thats what it is} is breathtaking in it`s scope & scale ! and these so called elected represenatives on each side for decades have devastated the once most prosperous and opportunistic nation that mankind has ever seen, to the extent we are beholden to every forum of sadistic manipualtion they can conjure up, including enemies that are the antithesis to the very freedoms that the U.S offers and furthermore sell to unwitting & divided more & more uneducated dupes {the U.S citizen} !
The Gang of 6, a blue ribbon commission ? what happened to open debate and legislation ? and backroom deals, ala Reid and McConell, what the hell is that all about, thats represenative Gov`t ? compromise on everything ? on what our Constitution, Independence, Bill of Rights----Jesus, I am not arguing with you you here I am just pointing out in short what I see !-----When does this insanity come to a head, casue the train is still rolling down the tracks, this Country and it`s elected Reps and a great many of the Citizenry has lost it`s " Common Sense " in regards to what the United States is all about---Somehwere and sooner or later something may cause a fracture in this Country tha likes of which we have not witnessed-----I pray to the Good Lord I am wrong, I hold out that reason and love of Country will win the day inspite of the overwhelming negativity---again I am not attempting to argue or critique what you said Free, just me spouting

The gang of 6 consists of 3 Dems, 3 Republicans who took on the arduous task of looking at the results of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/ and coming up with a budget plan. It seems to me that both bipartisan efforts with everything on the table is exactly what congress should be doing. As I said, all sacred cows were on the table.

As for squandering, this country agreed to 2 wars and agreed to tax cuts as well as bailouts. There were certainly some outlying objections but they were not in the majority. No doubt some who said yes also held some doubt as to whether it was the right thing to do. The majority also agree that the debt needs to be addressed with decreased spending as well as increased revenue. The devil is in the details as it's always tough to give up something you already have. As everyone will have to give up something. There is also a very real concern that addressing the deficit too aggressively with further hinder economic growth.

Back room deals have always been part of congress. It is not nearly as bad as you're thinking. Public debate means media. It means performances for the media. It's what we see as these guys are always in election mode. Behind the scenes they can drop that albatross and actually work towards what the parties believe is best for the country. There have been several interviews with experienced negotiators during this "crisis". FBI, lawyers, etc. They all pretty much said that congress was not negotiating as it should for effectiveness.

You see demons where most of us don't. That is very sad. There is just as much good out there as before. This country will be just fine. We may argue amongst ourselves but we band together when challenged. Don't let the rhetoric poison you.

[paolo59]

The fat lady hasn't sung. There simply wasn't enough time to really get into the gang of 6's findings/recommendations. I would expect any commission to use their work and based on what I've heard so far, it's going to cause a lot of heartburn from everyone.

I, truthfully, am just a bit skeptical of commissions at this juncture. The president established one months ago, Bohls/Simson. Old 'salty' politicians of both parties who were more than aware of political gameplaying and smoke and mirrors that seem to be the norm in Washington. Their recommendations made perfect sense, and included reasonable and measured entitlement reform. It failed to get the necessary votes for those recommendations to even be considered or debated in Congress. Real reform, real reigning in of government spending over the long term. Had their recommendations been accepted, the past two weeks of abject stupidity would not have taken place.

Until politicians have the fortitude to address the long term financial outlays they are simply dancing around the issue. Republicans will have to allow an increase in revenues to some degree, and Democrats will have to stand aside and allow real reform of Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare.

It seems to me that tax reform needs to be put on a fast track.

[paolo59]

I do realize that this thread is just a wee bit 'political' in nature, ha ha, but the posts have been intelligent, largely thoughtful, respectful, and informing. When it comes to deficits, taxes, spending ~ Over-35'ers are most interested I would suspect. We're the ones with mortgages, perhaps kids in College, personal and family budgets to ballance, and all of the daily pressures of being responsible, gainfully employed, tax paying adults. I appreciate the mods allowing this little discussion to continue.

[jnwaco]

This country will be just fine. We may argue amongst ourselves but we band together when challenged. Don't let the rhetoric poison you.

Let's be perfectly clear about the "deal" that is on the table as of this morning:

$2.4 trillion in debt limit increase.
$1 trillion of "cuts" that are over 10 years and don't start until 2013 (after the 2012 elections)
No enforcement of the so-called "cuts" - i.e. a later Congress can just raise the ceiling and ignore the cuts and nothing whatsoever happens
No balanced budget
No balanced budget amendment

All of this while Bernanke and Obama are telling you that inflation is 1.XX% (after their new and improved formula removes energy, food, and certain other goods from the equation). I think this is called pissing on your back and telling you it's raining. More debt = less value for the dollar and that is simply economic law. So, congrats, they're about to devalue the dollar a few more percent, and there's nothing in the legislation to actually hold them to the cuts in the future.

Next, these aren't even "cuts" in the way that normal people think about cuts. The Congress and CBO estimate something like 7% inflation in government budget numbers, so all they've managed to do is say that they will not increase the deficit as fast. That's not really worth crap.

Next, we've funded Libyan rebels just now to the tune of $30 billion. The same rebels with ties to Al Qaeda. How do you send a terrorist organization that you're fighting against in one country $30billion in another country - in the midst of a debt crisis? This is on top of "debating" on whether to withhold $800 BILLION in aid to Pakistan. How are we sending another country $800 billion in the midst of a debt crisis? Especially a country who housed and sheltered Osama?

[drudixon]

I do realize that this thread is just a wee bit 'political' in nature, ha ha, but the posts have been intelligent, largely thoughtful, respectful, and informing. When it comes to deficits, taxes, spending ~ Over-35'ers are most interested I would suspect. We're the ones with mortgages, perhaps kids in College, personal and family budgets to ballance, and all of the daily pressures of being responsible, gainfully employed, tax paying adults. I appreciate the mods allowing this little discussion to continue.

Ditto! It's just not the same in the reli/poli section. Frankly, I got turned off with that forum and just keep it over here. There's too many people over there that I don't know, or who troll, or make lame off-topic posts. I'd rather hear what my friends in ov35 have to say.

[freebirdmac]

I do realize that this thread is just a wee bit 'political' in nature, ha ha, but the posts have been intelligent, largely thoughtful, respectful, and informing. When it comes to deficits, taxes, spending ~ Over-35'ers are most interested I would suspect. We're the ones with mortgages, perhaps kids in College, personal and family budgets to ballance, and all of the daily pressures of being responsible, gainfully employed, tax paying adults. I appreciate the mods allowing this little discussion to continue.

Me too. It's the way it should be.

I, truthfully, am just a bit skeptical of commissions at this juncture. The president established one months ago, Bohls/Simson. Old 'salty' politicians of both parties who were more than aware of political gameplaying and smoke and mirrors that seem to be the norm in Washington. Their recommendations made perfect sense, and included reasonable and measured entitlement reform. It failed to get the necessary votes for those recommendations to even be considered or debated in Congress. Real reform, real reigning in of government spending over the long term. Had their recommendations been accepted, the past two weeks of abject stupidity would not have taken place.

Until politicians have the fortitude to address the long term financial outlays they are simply dancing around the issue. Republicans will have to allow an increase in revenues to some degree, and Democrats will have to stand aside and allow real reform of Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare.

It seems to me that tax reform needs to be put on a fast track.

Let's be perfectly clear about the "deal" that is on the table as of this morning:

$2.4 trillion in debt limit increase.
$1 trillion of "cuts" that are over 10 years and don't start until 2013 (after the 2012 elections)
No enforcement of the so-called "cuts" - i.e. a later Congress can just raise the ceiling and ignore the cuts and nothing whatsoever happens
No balanced budget
No balanced budget amendment

All of this while Bernanke and Obama are telling you that inflation is 1.XX% (after their new and improved formula removes energy, food, and certain other goods from the equation). I think this is called pissing on your back and telling you it's raining. More debt = less value for the dollar and that is simply economic law. So, congrats, they're about to devalue the dollar a few more percent, and there's nothing in the legislation to actually hold them to the cuts in the future.

Next, these aren't even "cuts" in the way that normal people think about cuts. The Congress and CBO estimate something like 7% inflation in government budget numbers, so all they've managed to do is say that they will not increase the deficit as fast. That's not really worth crap.

Next, we've funded Libyan rebels just now to the tune of $30 billion. The same rebels with ties to Al Qaeda. How do you send a terrorist organization that you're fighting against in one country $30billion in another country - in the midst of a debt crisis? This is on top of "debating" on whether to withhold $800 BILLION in aid to Pakistan. How are we sending another country $800 billion in the midst of a debt crisis? Especially a country who housed and sheltered Osama?

Congress wasn't ready to take action on the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform report. Heck, the public wan't ready. It was/is drastic. The gang of 6 took it on to try and turn drastic into something still drastic, but with a chance of passing congress. The hope was that the gang would release their plan in time to be considered during this current budget round. It wasn't released in time. What is on the table is just a step. The main emphasis was on passing something in order to raise the debt ceiling. A distraction really that I think backfired in many faces. Once passed and we can move on, the gang of 6 plan can be throughly read and discussed. It gives the proposed commission a huge head start. The public also has had time to start digesting the potential cuts coming which will also help progress. Still, it won't be easy. It's going to take time and details in order for the public to be comfortable. The majority has already spoken in polls to cut spending and raise revenues. The devil is in the details. Anyone expecting a miracle budget this go around must live on Mars

The Economist had a good summation http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...icit-reduction

Lots of good articles there http://www.economist.com/world/united-states

[jnwaco]

I really hope you are right, freebird. However, We saw these same sort of "reductions" under Reagan and Clinton, where all they promised was a slowdown in deficit growth, and promised those cuts in years so far out that they never materialized.

And c'mon, our government wastes hundreds of billions every year on very stupid things. I have just seen too much to have much faith left in the collection of crooks in Washington DC. And make no mistake, at this point, that is ALL they are.

[paolo59]

It has certainly been fascinating to watch, and just a bit frustrating too! LOL I'm still on vacation, what more do I have to do than glue my face to C-Span? There's a long way to go yet to finally set the United States on sound financial footing for the long term. God only knows what our politicians will do; duke it out and say ugly things about one-another I suspect! I trust that the voting American public is educated enough to see through the partisan bs, from both sides, and come to the realization of what must be done.

[CardiMuscles]

My vote went to Don't raise Ceiling, cut spending, raise taxes which is the same scheme we have been adopting in the United Kingdom

[dbx]

LOL, and MY thread was closed yesterday? Nice to see consistency here. As in, "selective moderation". Then again, it;s always existed here, but THIS is almost funny.

(btw; Wild Tim - totally understand your locking my thread, as I am well aware of your position. Nice to see actual and unbiased moderation here)

[freebirdmac]

Hey dbx!!! I think this has been left here as there's been more of an attempt to talk issues rather than drag all the partisan crap in.

I figured you be on top of this budget mess