9 year old Naomi Kutin breaks all-time raw squat record - 205 at 91 lbs

[powerlifter62]

That's the only issue you have with a three year old in a powerlifting meet? The cognitive inability to follow the rules? As long as they are mentally able to follow the instructions they're cleared for takeoff?

My friend, you and I are on completely different wavelengths here. I bid you adieu on this particular topic.

I didn't say that was my only issue with that. What I said basically was that their inability to follow rules and lack of coordination to perform the lifts makes the issue a non-issue.

[PhreEkGarden]

There's a difference between the maximal force of running fast or jumping versus the maximal force of having over 200 pounds across your shoulders, you can't deny that. I mean, in the abstract, if I jump as high as I can I'm applying maximal force with my legs, but that's VASTLY different from squatting maximally. You see what I mean?

Im pretty sure jumping a few feet from a tree or something like that is more force to the knees and back then a squat, and no one would have a problem with that.

Edit: From what dad has said she seems to train with mostly reps and gets proper rest... doesnt seem like a problem to me. This hardly seems like an issue compared to most kids that are inactive and the growing child obesity problem.

[sonti]

Fantastic, thank you for sharing. It's so nice to see a young girl introduced to a sport that is positive to her self-image - you are a great parent for encouraging that. We would love if our son (now only 14 months) later on shows an interest in powerlifting. Of course, I would be okay with him being Baryshnikov too - as long as he's active rather than addicted to WoW.

For those that are so upset, do you realize that it's something like 60-80% of 9 year old girls say they are on some form of a "diet"? And it's said to be around half of 5 year old girls too? How horrible is it, in the long term for her mental and physical sanity, that this young girl looks towards women like Melanie Roach as an example and is concerned with her squat number, rather than Paris Hilton?

[PhreEkGarden]

Fantastic, thank you for sharing. It's so nice to see a young girl introduced to a sport that is positive to her self-image - you are a great parent for encouraging that. We would love if our son (now only 14 months) later on shows an interest in powerlifting. Of course, I would be okay with him being Baryshnikov too - as long as he's active rather than addicted to WoW.

For those that are so upset, do you realize that it's something like 60-80% of 9 year old girls say they are on some form of a "diet"? And it's said to be around half of 5 year old girls too? How horrible is it, in the long term for her mental and physical sanity, that this young girl looks towards women like Melanie Roach as an example and is concerned with her squat number, rather than Paris Hilton?

Exactly. 9 year olds who are obese or on diets who cant stop texting is just disgusting. This girl will be more beautiful than others, not look anorexic and never have to worry about dieting at 9 years old, lol.

I know you could just say to allow her to do other sports but not powerlifting so young, but it would be sad to see that kind of ambition be held back instead of being encouraged.

[CookAndrewB]

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, it's pretty cool that your daughter is interested. On the other... it is a 9 year old competing in a powerlifting meet.

My concern is less about the forces that a young body can handle (though I have some reservations about that as well... it has just been talked to death already) and more about why this is necessary for a 9 year old.

Mike Boyle has some genius quotes about youth sports, and kids that get very focused. This one seems the most in line with my thoughts:

"Acknowledge that the key problem in youth sports is applying adult values to children’s activities."

I can't help but feel like there is a healthy balance between kids staying active, and kids being too focused and too pushed by adults who are looking to live out their dreams through their progeny. No accusations, OP, but I see this a lot and you didn't exactly put your daughter, a 9 year old, into YMCA pee-wee powerlifting. Makes me wonder.

For those of you that don't get a bad feeling in your gut about a 9 year old competing in powerlifting, I can't help but to think that you are either A) not a parent, or B) have no clue what it is that kids are like.

One more Boyle quote... "Just remember, this is a child, not an adult who got stuck in the dryer. Even kids who love sports need a break from sports and just need to be kids."

My .02, nothing more, nothing less.

[CookAndrewB]

Fantastic, thank you for sharing. It's so nice to see a young girl introduced to a sport that is positive to her self-image - you are a great parent for encouraging that. We would love if our son (now only 14 months) later on shows an interest in powerlifting. Of course, I would be okay with him being Baryshnikov too - as long as he's active rather than addicted to WoW.

For those that are so upset, do you realize that it's something like 60-80% of 9 year old girls say they are on some form of a "diet"? And it's said to be around half of 5 year old girls too? How horrible is it, in the long term for her mental and physical sanity, that this young girl looks towards women like Melanie Roach as an example and is concerned with her squat number, rather than Paris Hilton?

I'm not going to argue this point too much, but I think you are looking at extremes and ignoring all of the moderation in your argument. I think there is a happy medium here that everybody is ignoring. Not to mention the fact that kids don't get fat through magic, they get fat because they have parents who buy them crap, allow them to eat too much crap, and sit on the couch because it is easier to do that than to actually parent and make unpopular decisions about what your kids eat, and do, on a daily basis.

That being said, we eat ice cream in my house, we eat our veggies in my house, we play video games in my house, we exercise in my house... moderation isn't new.

[powerlifter62]

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, it's pretty cool that your daughter is interested. On the other... it is a 9 year old competing in a powerlifting meet.

My concern is less about the forces that a young body can handle (though I have some reservations about that as well... it has just been talked to death already) and more about why this is necessary for a 9 year old.

Mike Boyle has some genius quotes about youth sports, and kids that get very focused. This one seems the most in line with my thoughts:

"Acknowledge that the key problem in youth sports is applying adult values to children’s activities."

I can't help but feel like there is a healthy balance between kids staying active, and kids being too focused and too pushed by adults who are looking to live out their dreams through their progeny. No accusations, OP, but I see this a lot and you didn't exactly put your daughter, a 9 year old, into YMCA pee-wee powerlifting. Makes me wonder.

For those of you that don't get a bad feeling in your gut about a 9 year old competing in powerlifting, I can't help but to think that you are either A) not a parent, or B) have no clue what it is that kids are like.

One more Boyle quote... "Just remember, this is a child, not an adult who got stuck in the dryer. Even kids who love sports need a break from sports and just need to be kids."

My .02, nothing more, nothing less.

To the question of why this is necessary for a 9 year old, why is it necessary for anyone? No one can honestly claim that this is the best possible exercise to be doing. People who do this like being strong. Why can't a 9 year old also like being strong? She is child, not a baby.

Assume what you want about how pressured she is by her parents. As half of that unit, I can assure you that we go to great lengths to make sure that she stays the sweet, well-adjusted 9 year old girl that she is. With a lot of balanced activities, physical and social, and lifting being one of them only as long as she wants to do it.

And to be blunt, as multiple people have suggested it, I am not living out my dream through my daughter. I've never "dreamt" of holding a world record in powerlifting. I've lifted for 29 years because I enjoy it, and I still do, and I will keep lifting. The fact that I am not national calliber is not a lacking in my life. I admire those who do well, but I don't envy them. I do the best I can, myself, I will keep doing that, and I will encourage my children to do the same, in lifting, or in other activities.

[sonti]

I'm not going to argue this point too much, but I think you are looking at extremes and ignoring all of the moderation in your argument. I think there is a happy medium here that everybody is ignoring. Not to mention the fact that kids don't get fat through magic, they get fat because they have parents who buy them crap, allow them to eat too much crap, and sit on the couch because it is easier to do that than to actually parent and make unpopular decisions about what your kids eat, and do, on a daily basis.

That being said, we eat ice cream in my house, we eat our veggies in my house, we play video games in my house, we exercise in my house... moderation isn't new.

I don't disagree with you but I also think if the girl has a passion for it and a talent for it, she should go for it. The vast majority of athletic girls are happy enough to play some basketball on their school evenings or weekends (or whatever sport), then there are a few who do a heck of a lot more. It seems like OP's daughter is one of them. The happy medium is fine for almost all kids, but if she's got a true passion for it then sure. No recreational or even enthusiast 9 year old girl can squat like that. She's clearly interested in doing more than the average athletic girl.

(And to others)

About possible injuries,

Would you guys say the same thing if she was a 9 year old competing in gymnastics?

[PaleoNoob]

She's still in development, more chance of her epiphyseal plates sealing off

This concern is overblown by the medical community.

The weightlifting programs of former eastern block nations, and decades of training tens of thousands of children beginning at the ages of 6 and 7 have shown it to happen only in rare cases.

[David Wiggins]

She's still in development, more chance of her epiphyseal plates sealing off

It's unfortunate we have opinions like this, but we will let adolescents pitch their shoulders off, run wide open into each other on football and soccer fields, cheer and do gymnastics, etc. I feel sure these activities force more impact on the body.

BUT proper resistance training is more than they can bear?

Both my sons lift. They are 9 and 15. My oldest has lifted since he was 11. He is now 6'2", and weighs 260lbs. He benches 300 and squats 450lbs. Should we believe he would be 6'5" and in better condition if he had NOT started lifting young? This is not an opinion but an honest "case study" that I conducted on my son.

I have chimed in on this several times in other threads - not to argue, but to offer different points on the matter. I just can't see where this is any more dangerous than other sports activities (all being controlled and coached properly).

I do understand if it is beyond some peoples comfort zones. Our children are our most valuable asset. My 9 year old is still upset with me for taking a 215lbs. squat from him at his last meet. The DAD came out in me....

[simp3204]

She's still in development, more chance of her epiphyseal plates sealing off

You are really grasping for something tangible, that backs up your argument.

This concern is overblown by the medical community.

The weightlifting programs of former eastern block nations, and decades of training tens of thousands of children beginning at the ages of 6 and 7 have shown it to happen only in rare cases.

Thank you for the great point. She is just as likely to break an assorted amount of bones which could cause her plates to seal. A 9 year old squatting is nothing compared to the millions of children who work manual labor at the earliest possible age. They lift well beyond there own weight and magically continue to grow. Western medicine has become soft and everything has become bad for children.

If you want to look at something more detrimental to child development, look at dietary needs and what children are actually receiving.

[str8flexed]

there is zero evidence that lifting heavy seals growth plates or hampers development in children. In fact, all the RESEARCH shows that it actually HELPS achieve better bone growth and development.

[Newbtime]

So lifting stunts growth, but I started lifting when I was 13 hard consistent powerlifting since I was 14, and have grown 10+ inches in height since then...


Science.

[goosefrabbas]

I should've started lifting earlier. I'd be taller and stronger!

[str8flexed]

the same people who worry about their kids lifting weights are the same people who put them in pee wee football which will do more damage to their bodies than lifting weights ever possibly could

[PaleoNoob]

there is zero evidence that lifting heavy seals growth plates or hampers development in children. In fact, all the RESEARCH shows that it actually HELPS achieve better bone growth and development.

This makes total sense to me.

If resistance training can increase bone growth/density in seniors, why would it hamper it in growing children?

[powerlifter62]

It's unfortunate we have opinions like this, but we will let adolescents pitch their shoulders off, run wide open into each other on football and soccer fields, cheer and do gymnastics, etc. I feel sure these activities force more impact on the body.

BUT proper resistance training is more than they can bear?

Both my sons lift. They are 9 and 15. My oldest has lifted since he was 11. He is now 6'2", and weighs 260lbs. He benches 300 and squats 450lbs. Should we believe he would be 6'5" and in better condition if he had NOT started lifting young? This is not an opinion but an honest "case study" that I conducted on my son.

I have chimed in on this several times in other threads - not to argue, but to offer different points on the matter. I just can't see where this is any more dangerous than other sports activities (all being controlled and coached properly).

I do understand if it is beyond some peoples comfort zones. Our children are our most valuable asset. My 9 year old is still upset with me for taking a 215lbs. squat from him at his last meet. The DAD came out in me....

Thank you for your post!

[guest89]

Stronger squat then most adult males (srs).

[CookAndrewB]

I don't disagree with you but I also think if the girl has a passion for it and a talent for it, she should go for it. The vast majority of athletic girls are happy enough to play some basketball on their school evenings or weekends (or whatever sport), then there are a few who do a heck of a lot more. It seems like OP's daughter is one of them. The happy medium is fine for almost all kids, but if she's got a true passion for it then sure. No recreational or even enthusiast 9 year old girl can squat like that. She's clearly interested in doing more than the average athletic girl.

(And to others)

About possible injuries,

Would you guys say the same thing if she was a 9 year old competing in gymnastics?

To some degree children's sports are self limiting. A 9 year old doing a back tuck produces forces limited by her own bodyweight (I would be more concerned about eating disorders in a young gymnast than I would injury, honestly), and the spongy shock absorbing materials in a gymnastics training facility. Pee wee football is limited by the strength of a couple 3rd graders running into each other with enough padding to protect them in the occasion that they were hit by a car travelling 35mph. Injuries in pee wee football (and even up into middle school) trend towards the "bump/bruise/scrape" catagory. The "forces" aren't all that great, especially when you see that a vast majority of these kids are doing little more than bumping into each other and trying to arm tackle. Powerlifting, suited, allows a body to go beyond its normal self imposed limitations. In addition, powerlifting as a whole encourages the very testing of our limits. I'm not necessarily against kids training, but powerlifting... doesn't sit right with me. Not at that age, though I won't venture to state an age when I believe it is 100% acceptable. To each his own, and if the OP wants affirmation from other like minded individuals, then so be it. This being a public forum, I'm just saying my piece.

It's unfortunate we have opinions like this, but we will let adolescents pitch their shoulders off, run wide open into each other on football and soccer fields, cheer and do gymnastics, etc. I feel sure these activities force more impact on the body.

BUT proper resistance training is more than they can bear?

I agree with you about letting young pitchers throw their shoulders into the grave before they ever hit college, and sundry other "bad calls" that parents/adults make for the sake of making their children... great? And this really goes back to my original post. Far too often the adult in a child's life looks at them like they are a little adult, capable of little adult things with little adult emotions and little adult reasoning. Kids, for the most part, want to please mom and dad, and will go out of their way (to the point of harm) to please them. The more I ponder this thread, the less I have concerns about any injury issues, and I barely had any reservations of that sort anyway. People, kids included, get injured. Protect yourself, or your kids, as hard as you can, and it still happens. Still, adults can (and do) push kids into situations that aren't healthy, and as a parent I guess that always causes me to furrow my brow a bit. It's a hard balancing act to hit, as a parent, to balance "pushing" our kids to be THEIR best, and accepting when they have reached that point without trying to push them to be THE best.

So lifting stunts growth, but I started lifting when I was 13 hard consistent powerlifting since I was 14, and have grown 10+ inches in height since then...
Science.

I started lifting at 15, and haven't grown an inch since then, in fact I've started shrinking. So... who's body proves the point?

Don't be stupid. There is no possible way for you to tell how tall you could have/should have/would have been. This is like a bodybuilder talking about how skinny they used to be, and how their "genetics" were bad, but then they put on 70lbs of muscle and... well, how bad could your genetics have been if you managed all of that? Making arguments about presumptions of what "could have been if not for..." is just plain worthless.

So, from our stories of lifting and growth, what could we assume? It is just as likely that I would have never grown another inch, had I been a complete couch potato and never picked up a barbell. You could have grown 14" if you never touched a weight in your life... see the point? I can imagine all kinds of possibilities, and none of them has any validity.

the same people who worry about their kids lifting weights are the same people who put them in pee wee football which will do more damage to their bodies than lifting weights ever possibly could

... and speaking of presumption. That is an awfully black and white statement that doesn't apply to a sizeable portion of the parents I know. I know plently of parents that have their kids in pee-wee football, and I know lots of parents, myself included, who do not. Again, I think we need to make a distinction between a healthy pursuit and taking something to the extreme. Normally I can see a glint of rationality in your posts, but this one... not so much.

[nugs]

That is great. I am goin to show this to everybody I know that thinks I'm crazy cuz I have my kids workin out every day in one way or another.

Also wanted to add........nicw work DAD!

wtf is wrong with you people? Don't you think that what she's doing could have some negative effects on her development? I can't believe there isn't one post who is against this.

EDIT: didn't realize there was more than one page...

[Gaash]

watching these videos just makes me wish i could go back to 7 years old and start lifting then instead of waiting until 19 years old. lol.

You would actually be dissapointed to learn that it doesn't make a huge difference if you start really young versus like 16... maybe for the very technical olympic lifts but that's about it.

[str8flexed]

To some degree children's sports are self limiting. A 9 year old doing a back tuck produces forces limited by her own bodyweight (I would be more concerned about eating disorders in a young gymnast than I would injury, honestly), and the spongy shock absorbing materials in a gymnastics training facility. Pee wee football is limited by the strength of a couple 3rd graders running into each other with enough padding to protect them in the occasion that they were hit by a car travelling 35mph. Injuries in pee wee football (and even up into middle school) trend towards the "bump/bruise/scrape" catagory. The "forces" aren't all that great, especially when you see that a vast majority of these kids are doing little more than bumping into each other and trying to arm tackle. Powerlifting, suited, allows a body to go beyond its normal self imposed limitations. In addition, powerlifting as a whole encourages the very testing of our limits. I'm not necessarily against kids training, but powerlifting... doesn't sit right with me. Not at that age, though I won't venture to state an age when I believe it is 100% acceptable. To each his own, and if the OP wants affirmation from other like minded individuals, then so be it. This being a public forum, I'm just saying my piece.



I agree with you about letting young pitchers throw their shoulders into the grave before they ever hit college, and sundry other "bad calls" that parents/adults make for the sake of making their children... great? And this really goes back to my original post. Far too often the adult in a child's life looks at them like they are a little adult, capable of little adult things with little adult emotions and little adult reasoning. Kids, for the most part, want to please mom and dad, and will go out of their way (to the point of harm) to please them. The more I ponder this thread, the less I have concerns about any injury issues, and I barely had any reservations of that sort anyway. People, kids included, get injured. Protect yourself, or your kids, as hard as you can, and it still happens. Still, adults can (and do) push kids into situations that aren't healthy, and as a parent I guess that always causes me to furrow my brow a bit. It's a hard balancing act to hit, as a parent, to balance "pushing" our kids to be THEIR best, and accepting when they have reached that point without trying to push them to be THE best.





I started lifting at 15, and haven't grown an inch since then, in fact I've started shrinking. So... who's body proves the point?

Don't be stupid. There is no possible way for you to tell how tall you could have/should have/would have been. This is like a bodybuilder talking about how skinny they used to be, and how their "genetics" were bad, but then they put on 70lbs of muscle and... well, how bad could your genetics have been if you managed all of that? Making arguments about presumptions of what "could have been if not for..." is just plain worthless.

So, from our stories of lifting and growth, what could we assume? It is just as likely that I would have never grown another inch, had I been a complete couch potato and never picked up a barbell. You could have grown 14" if you never touched a weight in your life... see the point? I can imagine all kinds of possibilities, and none of them has any validity.



... and speaking of presumption. That is an awfully black and white statement that doesn't apply to a sizeable portion of the parents I know. I know plently of parents that have their kids in pee-wee football, and I know lots of parents, myself included, who do not. Again, I think we need to make a distinction between a healthy pursuit and taking something to the extreme. Normally I can see a glint of rationality in your posts, but this one... not so much.

lol you want me to talk to my friends who are orthopedics regarding this? So strength limits kids from hurting themselves in Pee Wee football, but it doesn't limit them from hurting themselves in weight lifting? Very strong logic.

The forces of jumping up and landing are typically greater than most heavy squats. Again, where is this purported evidence you talk about? I've looked at the literature... its kind of what I do for a living, there is NOTHING to suggest even heavy weight training stunts growth or is harmful to children and if you'd like to open up a scientific debate about this topic, I am happy to. So go right ahead
And by scientific debate, I mean supporting points with actual evidence and not BS half truths and nonsense

[DrHolliday]

lol you want me to talk to my friends who are orthopedics regarding this? So strength limits kids from hurting themselves in Pee Wee football, but it doesn't limit them from hurting themselves in weight lifting? Very strong logic.

The forces of jumping up and landing are typically greater than most heavy squats. Again, where is this purported evidence you talk about? I've looked at the literature... its kind of what I do for a living, there is NOTHING to suggest even heavy weight training stunts growth or is harmful to children and if you'd like to open up a scientific debate about this topic, I am happy to. So go right ahead
And by scientific debate, I mean supporting points with actual evidence and not BS half truths and nonsense

I don't know how fair it is to demand someone with a differing belief provide empirical evidence when you don't do it yourself. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit about it, but I can only find two articles from you on PubMed and neither one deals with premature epiphyseal closure. I'm willing to accept that you are an educated man, but I don't accept you as an authority on all things concerning physiology. I would like to see the peer-reviewed articles refuting the premature epiphyseal closure hypothesis. I'm not even trying to argue for or against it. I would like to see an article that goes either way. I have only been able to find articles dealing with disease conditions or injury. I haven't found anything yet about normal, healthy children lifting heavy weights and epiphyseal closure.

As to the logic that, because weight lifting increases bone density, it should be good for kids' growth, I would argue that the logical physiological conclusion is the opposite. The epiphyseal plates are cartilage, not bone, and once they become bone, longitudinal growth ceases. I can see the logic of bones increasing in density due to heavy weight lifting and that leading to the calcification of the epiphyseal plate. I can't find any peer-reviewed research to back that hypothesis though.

[CookAndrewB]

lol you want me to talk to my friends who are orthopedics regarding this? So strength limits kids from hurting themselves in Pee Wee football, but it doesn't limit them from hurting themselves in weight lifting? Very strong logic.

Wait, can your dad beat up my dad? Because I want to be certain which playground threat I may next receive if we continue this conversation.

Let's back up a second before you give me another BS straw man argument.

Let me spell this out to you:
1) I don't care if kids train with weights. I never had a dog in the "growth plate closure" argument other than to say that I can't see any use in trying to surmise growth outcomes based on whether you trained with weights as a kid or not. That's it. No need to provide scientific proof to that. It's a useless tangent in an otherwise important topic.
2) Yes, strength and body mass greatly limit the amount of damage a little kid, for instance this 9 year old girl, could do to herself in pee wee football. Is your argument really that these kids can hurt each other every bit as badly as NFL players can, with the same frequency and severity? I'm not really arguing that nobody ever broke a bone playing rec league football, I'm just saying that the "forces" involved are being greatly overestimated here. If you can show me a study that disproves my real world observations, then so be it. Still, there is no logic in saying that the forces generated between two kids is equal to that of two top tier athletes. It's not in the same ball park.
3) I never compared injury in football to injury in weight lifting. Feel free to go back and point out where you think I did. What I DID say is that powerlifting, by design, subjects you to forces that are at (and sometimes above) your maximal strength level. This practice is something that is not often suggested for novice adult weight lifters because we have concerns about those forces, and cost/benefit for putting someone under a maximal load. So I'm a little confused why we would then jump right to "but it's ok for a 9 year old." It may very well be, OR for lack of studies done on 9 year old powerlifters we may not really know the full ramifications of that training... and that should give us some pause to think. There are two concepts at play here. Stress, and distress. The body reacts favorably to stress. That is the switch that kicks off adapatations and I can get behind the idea of placing a young body under stress to promote bone density, strength, etc. Where I can't clearly see the line is where you cross into distress, and powerlifting very often crosses that line.
4)If you are an adult, you make the call on what you want out of life and step over the line. Kids don't have that ability. Argue all you want about "My kid is mature and they would tell me they didn't want to powerlift" but the truth is that kids (or people in general) seek approval. That gets stronger when a parent or guardian is involved, and that kid may NOT tell you they aren't happy. Again, whether it holds water with the OP and his daughter, I'm not concerned. Just voicing my own reasons for why I have issue with a kid powerlifting. I'm not going to report the OP to child protective services, take away his birthday, or even remember this thread a month from now. Just my opinion on the matter, nothing more.

The forces of jumping up and landing are typically greater than most heavy squats. Again, where is this purported evidence you talk about? I've looked at the literature... its kind of what I do for a living, there is NOTHING to suggest even heavy weight training stunts growth or is harmful to children and if you'd like to open up a scientific debate about this topic, I am happy to. So go right ahead
And by scientific debate, I mean supporting points with actual evidence and not BS half truths and nonsense

Understanding that I never made this kind of argument, I'm not even sure how to respond outside of "ok..."

If you took offense to some specific thing I said, quote it out and I'll talk to that. You want to talk about lack of science, half truths, and nonsense, I pointed yours out. Feel free to go back and read it again and then defend it with science

My entire purpose for being in this thread had nothing to do with talking about injuries, but rather the often poor influence that adults have on kids athletics or on child athletes.

On a final note, do you have a kid? What does this topic mean to you that you so fervently argue this in typical BB.com "who has a bigger wang" style?

[Heavy_Beats]

Just because people are usually order when they start strength training or powerlifting does not mean kids can't/shouldn't do it too. Some people need to understand that just because something is not perceived as "normal" from their perspective does not make it wrong.

One of the reasons people start strength training as an adult is that their health and well being has deteriorated to such an uncomfortable state that they feel they must make radical changes to their lifestyle. Had they started strength training as a kid and continued it into adulthood they would not have experienced problems associated with physical inactivity. At least not in my case.

[LILFATBOI]

So lifting stunts growth, but I started lifting when I was 13 hard consistent powerlifting since I was 14, and have grown 10+ inches in height since then...


Science.

this....started just general lifting in third grade not sure if I was even 5foot tall then, 6'3 about now...also drank coffee for alot of childhood.....damn i coulda been one tall mofo

[BEhave]

You would actually be dissapointed to learn that it doesn't make a huge difference if you start really young versus like 16... maybe for the very technical olympic lifts but that's about it.

I think if you had somebody who was good with programming, you would see big differences. At the same time, you proably weren't producing too much test at that point. Then again, this girl is squatting 200 pounds

[str8flexed]

LOL @ scientific evidence being a 'straw man argument'

[CookAndrewB]

Just because people are usually order when they start strength training or powerlifting does not mean kids can't/shouldn't do it too. Some people need to understand that just because something is not perceived as "normal" from their perspective does not make it wrong.

One of the reasons people start strength training as an adult is that their health and well being has deteriorated to such an uncomfortable state that they feel they must make radical changes to their lifestyle. Had they started strength training as a kid and continued it into adulthood they would not have experienced problems associated with physical inactivity. At least not in my case.

Again, I have never argued that a kid shouldn't weight train. There is a BIG difference between training for general health and training for powerlifting. Go back and read my point about putting the body under stress, and putting the body under distress. Age was never really the point, rather I was drawing a parallel between a novice (beginner, noob, whatever you want to call it) and a child. How much "time under the bar" could a 9 year old have that we would consider her advanced enough to start working with maximal loads? You do NOT see a lot of programs that encourage 1RM lifting for a novice lifter. Heck, even in our famed "Eastern Block child weight training concentration camp" scenario you don't see those kids maxing out at a young age. What you DO see is a ton of work with minimal weight, perfecting technique and form. But I would argue that Olympic lifting is still not powerlifting, in terms of load. You are very limited in the weight that you can use, because the movements cover a huge ROM and happen in the blink of an eye. Forces are still up there, in a physics sense, but there is more to movement than JUST sheer force production (though that seems lost in this thread).

All that being said, AND the fact that I never made age a point of contention, we still do not place elderly people on powerlifting programs. Do we think it is a reasonable idea for them to include some resistance training? Of course. And again I will say I have NO problem with kids incorporating resistance training, but that there is a difference between teaching your kid to properly squat and loading the hell out of them in a 1RM.

LOL @ scientific evidence being a 'straw man argument'

*sigh*

A straw man argument is when you present "evidence" to counter point an argument that I never made... which is EXACTLY what you did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man So yes, presenting "science" can still be a straw man argument.

Here, let me show you:

You are an idiot! Do I need to go gather up my astrophysicist buddies to tell you that the sun is further from the Earth than it is from Mercury?

See what I did there? I presented the same level of "scientific" evidence that you did, and accused you of making an argument that you never made to begin with... much like you did to me. Again, I'm really still waiting for you to pull out specifics and show me where I claimed anything that you blasted me for.

I've seen posts where you are pretty sharp, so part of me suspects I'm being trolled. Otherwise I'm just flat out confused.

[ManWithCurls]

First of all, let me congratulate you and your daughter for her achievement. Weightlifting takes a lot of determination and guts, and it is very refreshing to see a 9 year old already with such an attitude. I can only foresee a great future ahead for her in the strength field.

This concern is overblown by the medical community.

The weightlifting programs of former eastern block nations, and decades of training tens of thousands of children beginning at the ages of 6 and 7 have shown it to happen only in rare cases.

Yes, because the former Soviet countries are a great example of putting health before performance right? In an era where the Soviet Union tried to excel in weightlifting as a means to show their power as a nation, they didn't give a damn about children stunting their growth and what not. Only the strongest and fittest of young athletes made it through their filtering programs. As an example, I remember reading how in Bulgaria (not a former Soviet country but still a country of great weightlifters), children were tested in several athletic skills in order to determine which sport they would be directed to. I recall the long jump as one of the tests for weightlifting and once a child was identified as a talent for a given sport, that (and school) is all he did in his life, hardly a case to be extrapolated to a girl doing a sport which is not even in the Olympic Games and living in modern day USA.

Moreover, I have been involved indirectly with designing weightlifting programs for young weightlifters in a country where they actually care for their athletes. Young weightlifters do not start using max workloads until after the age of 14 because the sudden catching of a dropping barbell (e.g when catching a clean, not doing a back squat) produces great stress on bones. This is imperative to consider for young atheltes as max loads can cause fractures to bones and this is a big NO in young athletes still growing. Until the age of 14, technique work is done, with plenty of volume so as to condition the young athlete and having him increase his workload capacity without taxing his body with intense workloads. In fact, you will be hard-pressed to find a weightlifter under the age of 16 doing max lifts even in competition. I have taken the time to exchange emails with other coaches in different countries and they all follow this training pattern of not taxing their lifters until age 14 (I have not being in touch with coaches from China or Russia though, so I cannot talk about the best weightlifter-producing countries in the world).

there is zero evidence that lifting heavy seals growth plates or hampers development in children. In fact, all the RESEARCH shows that it actually HELPS achieve better bone growth and development.

While I agree that weightlifting does not necessarily stunt linear bone growth, I am quite concerned about lifting maximum loads as the illustrated young girl is doing in the videos. What if a young lifter, aged 9, is playing with his friends in the park, falls down and hits his thigh? He doesn't tell his mother and because it does not hurt he continues training with maximum loads. Imagine he has a small hairline fracture in the femur and when doing his lifting in competition to beat a record, he fails in the squat or the bone gives due to the shear force placed in the femur. I have also looked at some of the research and I don't think the research specifically looks to using maximum loads in exercises such as the squats in prepubescent children. If you actually have any studies or literature specifically addressing this, I would kindly welcome it. Until then, I, for one, am against using maximum loads in prepubescent children (although I am in favour of using low intensity loads).