TINAs nutrition and training log

[tina722]

Nice training, as usual. I have to wonder about all the cues, though, because, let's face it--what you've been doing has been working pretty darn well, so your body patterns can't be that off. Also, most people can only hold maybe 3 ideas in their head at a time, never mind with max effort. What I do when I'm trying to get form better is to focus on that much more on the lower-weight warmup sets and then just go for on the heavier sets--there's no way I can be thinking about cues. That's when I like to pyramid sets. Work on form going up, max out, then reset with lighter weight to see if the form stuck.

Haha. My fiancé says the same thing...I'm overthinking things and need to just lift. maybe... I do have some sloppy habits, when the weight gets heavy. For deadlifts, it's lower back rounding, which gets me off the floor fast, but makes lockout difficult. Squats, I'm aggressive, too much bounce, great for singles, but hard to get good work sets in. Bench, - maybe elbow flare. I don't know how much stronger I will actually get - I need to get more efficient at the movement, to let me lift more.
I like the reset idea and need to do that more often.

My other thought is that cues will help me learn muscle control better - like a gymnast/yogi (correct term?). They do make me more aware of where I don't have very good control - glutes are a great example here.

[Big_Sky_Guy]

Just randomly popped in here and it's a great place to be I see! Great stuff in here Subbed!



Thanks for posting this. I'm still trying to work the kinks out of my sumo DL.



With the second point about hips above the bar rather than low...can you offer advice on what is too high? I taped my sumo DLs and my hips went up first. I wonder if it's because the weight was too heavy or if I started with hips too low to being with. How do I gauge correct hip height? I've gotten advice in my own journal about 'lips to bar' lol but I think that cue might be causing me to misinterpret and sit too low in the hips.

I see where the cue can be confusing as it is not about depth as much as keeping our pelvis forward = over the bar. Almost the opposite of getting our butt back in squats, we want to keep our butt forward = open the hips on sumo deads. Most people set up with the least depth possible = the least ROM.

There is a sweet spot for all of us. In general, trying to get the hips open = as forward as possible towards the bar, then drop down with chest as upright as possible and grab the bar.


Apologize for any confusion

[schnauzers]

I see where the cue can be confusing as it is not about depth as much as keeping our pelvis forward = over the bar. Almost the opposite of getting our butt back in squats, we want to keep our butt forward = open the hips on sumo deads. Most people set up with the least depth possible = the least ROM.

There is a sweet spot for all of us. In general, trying to get the hips open = as forward as possible towards the bar, then drop down with chest as upright as possible and grab the bar.


Apologize for any confusion

Oh not at all, I appreciate the advice!

Today I saw a video by Eric Cressey where he reviewed three types of DLs. With the sumo DL he used the cue of hips back/sitting back. I think he even said that some people make the mistake of squatting down instead.

Here's the link:

http://vimeo.com/14240397

Password: deadlift

[tina722]

Week 3 Lower Intensity

High bar squats to warm up

FS
135x3
145x3
160x1.5
160x1.5
160x1(x2)
135x3
145x3

meh. hadn't recovered from previous days. Upper back is getting a good workout from the pendlays and fs. Will try again next weekend. It'll be easier now that I've been under this weight a few times. Also will work on decreasing the volume so I can recover better. Maybe avoid the tequila on Friday nights too.

More high bar squats.

Deads
135xlots
185x2
205x2
235x2
255x2
265x2
270x2

After the FS, I wasn't expecting deads to go smoothly either, but heels were pushing great and had a great connection with the ground. Hips still rose early, but will keep working.


Sumo goblet squats
50x10x4

Split squats
3 sets

[tina722]

[gobbles23]

Excellent job!!!

[thehobbes]

BRB pulling up a chair in here and hopefully learning some things about sumo DLs, srs I am beyond frustrated with these things atm.

I watched this like 5x, looks really good IMO, strong. I assume at your height you have short-ist arms? Can't really tell, but I am assuming also that's why you're choosing sumo? When I used to do regular deads it felt extremely awkward and even hurt my knees a bit to have to almost crouch down so far. Where are you putting your shins against the bar as far as the markings on the bar, right on the rings or a bit outside? Looks like you're getting a nice wide stance there.

So from what BSK is saying try to get a nice wide stance, somewhat push against the bar/push bar back against shins instead of doing more of a sit-back in a chair squat method? Then lower your upper body til you can grab the bar with chest up and out? Tina it looks like you don't get down very far, just enough to reach, which is personally where I feel stronger. When initiating the pull as long as you keep your ass where it is and don't let the hips rise and just freaking pull you are good right? I'm getting confused with the "don't let your hips rise first" and the "pull with your legs not your back" thing. Also confuzzled with hip drive in general.

/throwing my dl woes in someone else's journal

[Big_Sky_Guy]

Oh not at all, I appreciate the advice!

Today I saw a video by Eric Cressey where he reviewed three types of DLs. With the sumo DL he used the cue of hips back/sitting back. I think he even said that some people make the mistake of squatting down instead.

Here's the link:

http://vimeo.com/14240397

Password: deadlift

I believe it can be easy to cross streams in these discussions as his description of hips back/sitting back is exactly what you do in a squat, and then says it's different. So, Eric just described that you should do sumos the same way you so squats.

The way Dan explains sumo setup makes it different than a squat.



I would say Eric trains for people to simply workout and Dan trains people to be more competitive

[tina722]

BRB pulling up a chair in here and hopefully learning some things about sumo DLs, srs I am beyond frustrated with these things atm.



I watched this like 5x, looks really good IMO, strong. I assume at your height you have short-ist arms? Can't really tell, but I am assuming also that's why you're choosing sumo? When I used to do regular deads it felt extremely awkward and even hurt my knees a bit to have to almost crouch down so far. Where are you putting your shins against the bar as far as the markings on the bar, right on the rings or a bit outside? Looks like you're getting a nice wide stance there.

So from what BSK is saying try to get a nice wide stance, somewhat push against the bar/push bar back against shins instead of doing more of a sit-back in a chair squat method? Then lower your upper body til you can grab the bar with chest up and out? Tina it looks like you don't get down very far, just enough to reach, which is personally where I feel stronger. When initiating the pull as long as you keep your ass where it is and don't let the hips rise and just freaking pull you are good right? I'm getting confused with the "don't let your hips rise first" and the "pull with your legs not your back" thing. Also confuzzled with hip drive in general.

/throwing my dl woes in someone else's journal

I haven't looked at my proportions closely - I feel pretty average (??) and don't really have a good reason for doing sumo over conventional. I am stronger at it, but assumed it was because of the shorter bar path. Conventional is just HARD, so I don't do it.

That is what I understand, you can kind of see it in my video. I place each heel first, and screw it into place, then stand, tighten abs/glutes/arms, and, wind down, so I'm really tight into position. Then standing up (with the bar) is just releasing the spring. lol. that might not make sense. 80s gave me a great video once, let me repost it.

Are you saying to position my hips higher, so they initiate the pull at that point? I can try that, it might be the trick to avoid the hip first problem. I need to get some of the lighter stuff on video and see if my form changes.

Try focusing more on the knees- maybe? This session I mostly focused on knees out and heels down; the pull feels really short and it was came up easy. Next time I'll try to remember the hips as well.

Talk is good, and its nice to know I'm not the only one with repeating issues showing up in deads.

[thehobbes]

Thanks for the setup info, I'm gonna try that with the feet first, core, and then worry about coming down to meet the bar and grab it, I'm doing it somewhat backwards it seems. :/

Are you saying to position my hips higher, so they initiate the pull at that point? I can try that, it might be the trick to avoid the hip first problem. I need to get some of the lighter stuff on video and see if my form changes.

Noooo lol, was not saying position them higher, it just appears that you already are positioning them a lot higher than I do. I feel comfortable when I start from that level where you're at, but have been trying to get lower thinking it would help me, it seems to be harder though. I don't know, people have repeatedly suggested I start lower so I can use my legs more but I'm struggling with it.

Try focusing more on the knees- maybe? This session I mostly focused on knees out and heels down; the pull feels really short and it was came up easy. Next time I'll try to remember the hips as well.

Ok, maybe I'm not pointing my feet out as much as I should, not really sure what angle they should be at.

Talk is good, and its nice to know I'm not the only one with repeating issues showing up in deads.

So much THIS. I really want to get this one down so I can start pulling impressive weight. Meanwhile over in My-DL-Sucks-Land people that are 50lbs less than me are around where I'm at, wtf?! Despite any form issues you are still pulling heavy azz weight OP especially at 124!

[tina722]

Noooo lol, was not saying position them higher, it just appears that you already are positioning them a lot higher than I do. I feel comfortable when I start from that level where you're at, but have been trying to get lower thinking it would help me, it seems to be harder though. I don't know, people have repeatedly suggested I start lower so I can use my legs more but I'm struggling with it.

If you try a different setup I'd love to hear what you think.

Yea, my hips are highish, but looking at other PLers, I'm not sure this is wrong. Still trying to figure this out.

Totally agree with in bold. did you catch the dan green youtube that izzy linked in? dan green says getting too low is also a problem, as it can put you off balance. I guess the trick is to find the perfect height and then start there every time.

edit: here: https://www.********.com/photo.php?v=10201556046970386

I think I need to get my chest up more...
here's a great video to see form (doc Holloway)


thanks for the compliment, deads are my strong point, would love for some of that strength to transfer to upper body movements though. There's my real frustration point that I should spend more time on.

edit#2: elite has the so you think you can deadlift series out now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2wL...UUBI1TGjNSKUWB
I haven't watched it yet, but supposed to be pretty good.

[jjeane]

Excellent work Tina!!!
Totally agree with Hammie, In for the Dl tutorial going on. Such great info in here!!

[tina722]

I don't have a ton of advice on sumos other than maybe than setup/ approaching the bar. Rather than leaning over to set your grip, many say that the best way to set up a sumo is to set your foot stance, stay upright, figure your grip, angle your knees, then push your knees straight out to the side (can practice with a mirror to your side at first, think ballerina doing a plie). As you push out the knees, the torso drops vertically straight down to the bar, it stays upright the whole time (so no leaning over), so you sort of glob onto the bar as your hands reach it, and pull back from there. You don't even need to think about your butt or anything other than the arch, as your knees push out and torso drops, it just falls into place. There is a video that illustrates this perfectly, will post back if I can find it!! If you like what you have then keep of course, but if you wanted to give that method a whirl, I always thought that setup made the sumos feel 10x lighter.

Edit - found it, it is one of the more popular vids, you might have seen it before, but the sumo instructional starts around 6 minutes in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx9dX9LM

quote from earlier this year with really good youtube about deadlift setup




Shesprints: am I still overthinking things too much?



(don't answer that....)

[tina722]

one more lol... for form



those quads...

[shesprints]

quote from earlier this year with really good youtube about deadlift setup




Shesprints: am I still overthinking things too much?



(don't answer that....)

Hehe. I actually can't fault you for overthinking. Witness the meltdown in my log as I try desperately to program for the next 2.5 months of post-injury comeback!

[Big_Sky_Guy]

I like the plie squat cue. Can't wait to use it with the fellas!



Watching those who are very successful at sumo, they do not allow their pelvis any further away from the bar than they have to.


From ilove's link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx9dX9LM

At ~ 6:45 you hear the coach explain keeping your man parts forward = do not let your butt push back. Flare the knees/open the hips, drop straight down, keep the arch and BAM pull it back!




I am no genius, just taking the coaching myself as I have just started adding Sumo in for training.


Tina- you will get it sorted out!

[thehobbes]

Holy crap, my setup is wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm switching to doing it how Tina and the other vids show, go only as low as you need to, I think that is exactly what's jacking me up. Studying all these vids srs.

[tina722]

I like the plie squat cue. Can't wait to use it with the fellas!



Watching those who are very successful at sumo, they do not allow their pelvis any further away from the bar than they have to.

Lol, would like to see their faces when you tell them to plié.

I really like your use of 'pelvis' I think it might fit better, for me, then "hips". It'll help me remember to use the whole lower unit as one (or ideally anyways...)

Holy crap, my setup is wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm switching to doing it how Tina and the other vids show, go only as low as you need to, I think that is exactly what's jacking me up. Studying all these vids srs.

I don't know about wrong. To follow up with BSG saying Eric Cressey and Dan explain things differently- the way we were doing it is safe and practical for a generic lifting program to have strength/muscle (ie. Cressey method). More of a personal opinion here: at a certain point, if you want to continue to get stronger - you have to become more efficient at the lift - which would be a PL style (Dan-style).

I love these videos- but these are top notch DLers, with years of work to get their pelvis to move like that: beautiful and painful at the same time.

[tina722]

Week 4 Upper volume

Week 4, can't believe I made it this long, without too many modifications.

Cable row/shoulder rehab for warmup

Pullups: BWx6x4

DB Jerk: 35x6x2
40x3
47x2
40x3

OHP: 4 sets
- no bar available so just used the machine

Clean: 60x2x5
- used premade bar. was a little awkward

BB strict row: 85x8x2

[tina722]

Thread for motivational videos: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1141644863

Add yours in!

[jjeane]

Nice pull ups Tina!!

[patrocious]

Subbed

[lotusdeva]

also subbed. strong workouts!

[Big_Sky_Guy]

Taking my own medicine, I focused on Dan's suggestions and those from EFS. I am sooo inflexible in the hip/groin and low back area it's ridiculous!

I video'd it and will upload in a couple days to have a starting point with sumo.


If you have time, Pamela Bosco (PBo) is a damn good sumo lifter that is likely to have some vids out there. She has ties with Dan. And also Paul Carter with Lift, Run, Bang.

[tina722]

Nice pull ups Tina!!

Subbed

Hi! and thanks, glad you found me.

also subbed. strong workouts!

Thanks and welcome.

If you have time, Pamela Bosco (PBo) is a damn good sumo lifter that is likely to have some vids out there. She has ties with Dan. And also Paul Carter with Lift, Run, Bang.

I have seen some of her videos! Will need to get those in here too, she's intense. I *think* I've heard of LRB..

[tina722]

Week 4 Lower volume 10/2/13

GHR/Single leg ham curl to warm up

Back squat
185x5x3
- will get the full 5x5 next week.

GMs
95x6x4

Sumo Deads
225x a few

RDL
95x10x2
145x10

[tina722]

Here's how I do the assisted GHR



Glutes and hammies ARE flexed, despite how easy and fast, it looks like I am moving. The stick in front is to give assistance (still need a lot...) and is touching the ground. My ankles are underneath the knee bar. My major goal is to keep everything engaged and keep low back flat. I should be going down further than this.

[AlexW1991]

Your avi always catches my eye so I figured I'd stop by and see how you got to look that way. It all makes sense with those 24 pull ups!

[gobbles23]

OOh, I like how you do those!!!! I suck at them, my hammies are too weak and that's all I can feel that movement work! hahaha! Getting a bit better though, someday

[beatha]

killer pull ups T vid cool too ... makes me wanna try GHR every time i peeps em posting up