What to do with this 55 year old lady??

[FueledByYelyah]

no ones answered my question lol

[WoofieNugget]

Is that a prerequisite for being a PT? How much I can lift? Lol

No, but if you are going to show somebody how to do something you should probably have tried to do it yourself. If someone comes to me and says they want to learn Olympic lifting I tell them I don't have a ton of experience in it and while I know the basics, they would be better off with Trainer Bob who has lifted like that for years.

To the OP, it sounds like you're not going to kill her, but especially at the beginning you need to find out where her body can go to without causing serious problems and then build on that foundation. I would keep it basic and work on fundamentals of pushing, pulling, bending, squatting, etc. She's not looking to be a high level athlete, I'm assuming. Since she skiis you might want to also think about balance and reaction time once the basics are mastered.

I've trained people as old as 86. People on here freak out about liability for some reason. You're only going to get sued if you do something stupid and can't back up the reason why you did something. Of course I have insurance, but in almost 12 years I've never even had someone hint at suing me because they know when they are with me I'm controlling everything and won't do anything that is beyond their capabilities.

[KyleAaron]

"because of the natural decline in function associated with aging, the Personal Trainer should interpret maintenance of function as a successful outcome."--Page 432

ACSM'S Resources For The Personal Trainer

ACSM is quite right. However, the decline isn't linear, nor is it necessarily greater than the rate of possible improvement. As well, declining from somewhere high is different to declining from somewhere low. Someone who was very athletic till 35 then sedentary till 55 is different to someone who was sedentary all the way up till 55. And so on.

Thus for example I have a client who is a yachtsman, and with me did the first chinups of his life - he's 54yo. I have another who's an educator and did hockey until 40 or so, she has squatted 60% her bodyweight - she's 49yo with low-grade MS. But I have had another who could not do a goblet squat or a single pushup - he was 22yo but a computer nerd.

The ACSM guidelines are just that, guidelines. You ALWAYS have to consider the individual, their state on the day, and so on. If you didn't have to consider the individual, we wouldn't have a job, we could just give out programme cards and then leave people to it.

These things become clear once you finish the course and get your hands on people's bodies. You will make mistakes, you will screw up. So long as the client is not injured and comes back next time, it's all good.

And I did indeed answer your question. Forget her age, look at her capabilities and goals. Her capabilities are assessed just as you assess anyone else's, try something at a low level of weight or intensity, if she can handle it, keep increasing the weight or intensity until it's obvious she won't be able to handle much more - just below that is where you start her, and increase this over time. Her goals are assessed by asking her.

[FueledByYelyah]

ACSM is quite right. However, the decline isn't linear, nor is it necessarily greater than the rate of possible improvement. As well, declining from somewhere high is different to declining from somewhere low. Someone who was very athletic till 35 then sedentary till 55 is different to someone who was sedentary all the way up till 55. And so on.

Thus for example I have a client who is a yachtsman, and with me did the first chinups of his life - he's 54yo. I have another who's an educator and did hockey until 40 or so, she has squatted 60% her bodyweight - she's 49yo with low-grade MS. But I have had another who could not do a goblet squat or a single pushup - he was 22yo but a computer nerd.

The ACSM guidelines are just that, guidelines. You ALWAYS have to consider the individual, their state on the day, and so on. If you didn't have to consider the individual, we wouldn't have a job, we could just give out programme cards and then leave people to it.

These things become clear once you finish the course and get your hands on people's bodies. You will make mistakes, you will screw up. So long as the client is not injured and comes back next time, it's all good.

And I did indeed answer your question. Forget her age, look at her capabilities and goals. Her capabilities are assessed just as you assess anyone else's, try something at a low level of weight or intensity, if she can handle it, keep increasing the weight or intensity until it's obvious she won't be able to handle much more - just below that is where you start her, and increase this over time. Her goals are assessed by asking her.

thank you for a legit answer, not "do you even lift"

thanks mate

[NYkarate]

ACSM is quite right. However, the decline isn't linear, nor is it necessarily greater than the rate of possible improvement. As well, declining from somewhere high is different to declining from somewhere low. Someone who was very athletic till 35 then sedentary till 55 is different to someone who was sedentary all the way up till 55. And so on.

Thus for example I have a client who is a yachtsman, and with me did the first chinups of his life - he's 54yo. I have another who's an educator and did hockey until 40 or so, she has squatted 60% her bodyweight - she's 49yo with low-grade MS. But I have had another who could not do a goblet squat or a single pushup - he was 22yo but a computer nerd.

The ACSM guidelines are just that, guidelines. You ALWAYS have to consider the individual, their state on the day, and so on. If you didn't have to consider the individual, we wouldn't have a job, we could just give out programme cards and then leave people to it.

These things become clear once you finish the course and get your hands on people's bodies. You will make mistakes, you will screw up. So long as the client is not injured and comes back next time, it's all good.

And I did indeed answer your question. Forget her age, look at her capabilities and goals. Her capabilities are assessed just as you assess anyone else's, try something at a low level of weight or intensity, if she can handle it, keep increasing the weight or intensity until it's obvious she won't be able to handle much more - just below that is where you start her, and increase this over time. Her goals are assessed by asking her.

What you have stated above is correct. However, I fail to see how they are right with the statement "the Personal Trainer should interpret maintenance of function as a successful outcome."

[KyleAaron]

thank you for a legit answer, not "do you even lift"

I don't care if you lift or not, only if you can coach someone else to lift. I mean if Mark Rippetoe or Pavel T lost both legs and one arm in a car accident, should they stop coaching? Doesn't change the information in their brains.

What you have stated above is correct. However, I fail to see how they are right with the statement "the Personal Trainer should interpret maintenance of function as a successful outcome."

It is a successful outcome. It's good. But it could be better. If a person can maintain the same level of function at 70 as they had at 30, that's successful, since most lose function.

Being better at 70 than they were at 30 would be better, though. It's not either/or, good result or bad result. It's more like bad, okay, good, better.

[NYkarate]

I don't care if you lift or not, only if you can coach someone else to lift. I mean if Mark Rippetoe or Pavel T lost both legs and one arm in a car accident, should they stop coaching? Doesn't change the information in their brains.

It is a successful outcome. It's good. But it could be better. If a person can maintain the same level of function at 70 as they had at 30, that's successful, since most lose function.

Being better at 70 than they were at 30 would be better, though. It's not either/or, good result or bad result. It's more like bad, okay, good, better.

If they bring their function level from 70 to thirty, it isn't maintaining function, it is greatly improving it. To me the words maintenance of function mean staying at the same level, it is terrible wording.

[FueledByYelyah]

of course, maintaining function is all relative...if a 60 year old dude wants to become a bodybuilder, ill throw on a couple of plates on the bench press, tell him to grunt as loud as he can, and thats it

[NYkarate]

of course, maintaining function is all relative...if a 60 year old dude wants to become a bodybuilder, ill throw on a couple of plates on the bench press, tell him to grunt as loud as he can, and thats it

Is that really maintaining function? What is the difference if he is 20 or 70, a 20 year old is growing older too? Like I said on the thread earlier, there are plenty of people in their 40s, 50s and 60s who are in much better shape than the average 20 something. I know someone who is 73 who would bike solo from Florida to Maine without batting an eye. How many 19 year olds can do that?

[FueledByYelyah]

Is that really maintaining function? What is the difference if he is 20 or 70, a 20 year old is growing older too? Like I said on the thread earlier, there are plenty of people in their 40s, 50s and 60s who are in much better shape than the average 20 something. I know someone who is 73 who would bike solo from Florida to Maine without batting an eye. How many 19 year olds can do that?

i think the better question is, how many 19 year olds want to do that...jajaja

[KyleAaron]

If they bring their function level from 70 to thirty, it isn't maintaining function, it is greatly improving it. To me the words maintenance of function mean staying at the same level, it is terrible wording.

No.

"Maintaining function" means maintaining that individual's abilities, not maintaining some abstract standard of people that age.

If that individual begins with a good level of ability, and can maintain that as they age, that's a good outcome, a success. If they can improve it, even better.

Never forget to consider the individual.

[NYkarate]

No.

"Maintaining function" means maintaining that individual's abilities, not maintaining some abstract standard of people that age.

If that individual begins with a good level of ability, and can maintain that as they age, that's a good outcome, a success. If they can improve it, even better.

Never forget to consider the individual.

Oh, I get that and that is exactly my point. Who hires a trainer to "maintain" at any age?

[jeffsmith2]

A lot of people are just happy to get back to what "normal" should be at their age. I see very few fit clients.

[NYkarate]

A lot of people are just happy to get back to what "normal" should be at their age. I see very few fit clients.

I am sure. I just believe the only successful outcome is when you work with your client to set realistic goals based upon where they are and where they want to get to and you reach or exceed those goals.

[KyleAaron]

Oh, I get that and that is exactly my point. Who hires a trainer to "maintain" at any age?

Dunno. About as many as we get trainers who worry about what the ACSM says.

Which is why I'm confused by your pedantry about their wording. We know what they mean. The broad guidelines are more or less sensible, but like the whole "X reps for strength, Y for endurance" stuff, all the details and charts they give you turn out to not matter much when you're actually training people.

[WoofieNugget]

Oh, I get that and that is exactly my point. Who hires a trainer to "maintain" at any age?

I've had people do this over the years. They are basically admitting that they won't work out without someone there working them and they are happy if they just don't continue to decline.

Believe it or not I have a girl right now who is 28, and has always been overweight but makes good money and is just happy she has stopped gaining weight since she's working with me. She refuses to work out on her own and has an average diet and doesn't want to change it. It is sad, and hard to understand but that's okay with her and I still do my best to improve her. I've been up front with her since the beginning about the inability to make serious progress without her doing her own work and she's fine with it.

[NYkarate]

Dunno. About as many as we get trainers who worry about what the ACSM says.

Which is why I'm confused by your pedantry about their wording. We know what they mean. The broad guidelines are more or less sensible, but like the whole "X reps for strength, Y for endurance" stuff, all the details and charts they give you turn out to not matter much when you're actually training people.

I have great respect for you and always read your posts. That is why I was a bit confused by you saying they were 100% correct in what they said, so I was trying to figure out what I was missing on this thread.

I actually find it insulting that trainers would view a successful outcome for a client "maintenance of function" based on the fact that a person is older. If that is a person's goal (regardless of age) and you attain it, then that is a successful outcome. But to make a broad sweeping statement that this is a successful outcome for a trainer if they are training an older person is just assuming that older clients can't improve function. Sorry if you think I am being pedantic: This is just how I see it.

[Tybalt71]

I can appreciate the input here from some very articulate, very knowledgeable contributors, great info, I respect that, but lets be honest and the fact is as we get older on a very basic level, a biological level, the fact is as we age, certain biological traits whether functional, mechanical, bio-chemically decrease as we get older, such as bone density, flexibility, Atrophy, muscle mass, lower hormone levels, lower metabolism and other metabolic processes in the body.This doesnt mean you can live a healthy strong longer life but you do have to incorporate certain aspect in your life to maintain you're body if it's flexibility training to maintain independence and mobility, cardio for you're heart, resistance training to gain or maintain lean muscle etc...... hell yeah older as we get we can be stronger then we were in our 30's, I'm 40 and i am in the best shape of my life now mentally, physically, spiritually, if i knew then what i knew now, Wow!!!!!! -Ty

[NYkarate]

I can appreciate the input here from some very articulate, very knowledgeable contributors, great info, I respect that, but lets be honest and the fact is as we get older on a very basic level, a biological level, the fact is as we age, certain biological traits whether functional, mechanical, bio-chemically decrease as we get older, such as bone density, flexibility, Atrophy, muscle mass, lower hormone levels, lower metabolism and other metabolic processes in the body.This doesnt mean you can live a healthy strong longer life but you do have to incorporate certain aspect in your life to maintain you're body if it's flexibility training to maintain independence and mobility, cardio for you're heart, resistance training to gain or maintain lean muscle etc...... hell yeah older as we get we can be stronger then we were in our 30's, I'm 40 and i am in the best shape of my life now mentally, physically, spiritually, if i knew then what i knew now, Wow!!!!!! -Ty

I believe that 90% of what we attribute to "aging" is really do to non-use. And yes I agree there are very knowledgeable posters on here who are just great to read.

[Tybalt71]

I believe that 90% of what we attribute to "aging" is really do to non-use. And yes I agree there are very knowledgeable posters on here who are just great to read.

Absolutely!!!!!!, hence why it is so critical to have certain components such as flexibility, resistense, cardio activities etc. incorporated into our daily routines, IMO, being 40, my feeling is that what i do in the span of 40-50 MAY predetermine how i may live 50+ with perhaps and hope with some sort of success physically, mentally, spiritually -Ty

[jeffsmith2]

I mean, as we age your ability to become an advanced or elite lifter/athlete decreases as our nervous system slows, our muscles atrophy, contractile force decreases, etc. There's a reason most peak athletes are in their 20s or 30s.

Most clients we get are so de-trained that they will never even scrape a hint of their genetic potential at any age. This doesn't really effect them. That said, a trained 55 year old woman can easily be stronger than an untrained 25 year old. I've seen it and accomplished it with a client. That 55 year old will simply have a lower ceiling in terms of one day ever becoming an advanced lifter if they ever chose to. From a PT standpoint, getting clients to their highest level of fitness they've ever been is really important regardless where they start. In most cases this will be completely couch-potato detrained. lol

This whole reason is why I want to be a PT. It forces you to maintain a healthy body and immerses you in training and knowledge to keep yourself healthy. Who will higher a fat, out of shape trainer? Even other healthcare professionals I see like my doctor for instance is a short fat guy who has already had a hip replacement. I don't wanna be that out of shape dude at 40 needing a hip replacement. F that!

[NYkarate]

I mean, as we age your ability to become an advanced or elite lifter/athlete decreases as our nervous system slows, our muscles atrophy, contractile force decreases, etc. There's a reason most peak athletes are in their 20s or 30s.

Most clients we get are so de-trained that they will never even scrape a hint of their genetic potential at any age. This doesn't really effect them. That said, a trained 55 year old woman can easily be stronger than an untrained 25 year old. I've seen it and accomplished it with a client. That 55 year old will simply have a lower ceiling in terms of one day ever becoming an advanced lifter if they ever chose to.

From a PT standpoint, getting clients to their highest level of fitness they've ever been is really important regardless where they start. In most cases this will be completely couch-potato detrained. lol

Exactly! That is why I had such a problem with ACSM's wording. If you are just going for "maintenance of function", you aren't doing you job, unless this is all the client wants. I mean what does "maintenance of function" even really mean, continuing to be able to get off the john? Are you seriously going to tell me that most 40-60+ year olds are going to hire a personal trainer to do that? No, most of them want to improve their current level of function, improve their level of athletic ability, or just look better, don't they? That wording is very poor and could easily mislead a young trainer.

[jeffsmith2]

"So trainer, what do you specialize in?"

"Maintainance of function. I'll keep you where you're at. 75 dollars an hour please."

"Where do I sign?"

LOL

But seriously, I wouldn't be concerned about "maintenance of function" until someone is really, really old and is in pretty rough shape to begin with. And even then I'd probably recommend them to a clinical trainer with experience working with the elderly.

[FueledByYelyah]

lol@everyone still on this

i been moved on

[Tybalt71]

lol@everyone still on this

i been moved on

Respectively, if you're going to put something out there especially in an open public forum, you open you're self to the possible scrutiny, not different to what i should expect to be called on my statements,hence what is called a discussion, i own them, stand by them and in the end it's ok to agree to disagree, I still extend the courtesy and respect to others , still extend my hand to them if their views differ from mine. Be accountable for what you say and again own it, i may not agree with you but i can respect you if you stand and uphold you're opinions without becoming defensive/condescending etc. -Ty

[NorwichGrad]

Is that a prerequisite for being a PT? How much I can lift? Lol

Generally speaking, no it's not. But if a trainer wants to specifically train bodybuilders, powerlifters, or Olympic lifters, then he would make a better trainer if he spent some time in the trenches.

BTW, my lesbian cousin said you look like a gay pornstar. (Not that I know what a gay pornstar looks like.)

[drudixon]

ACSM is quite right. However, the decline isn't linear, nor is it necessarily greater than the rate of possible improvement. As well, declining from somewhere high is different to declining from somewhere low. Someone who was very athletic till 35 then sedentary till 55 is different to someone who was sedentary all the way up till 55. And so on.

Thus for example I have a client who is a yachtsman, and with me did the first chinups of his life - he's 54yo. I have another who's an educator and did hockey until 40 or so, she has squatted 60% her bodyweight - she's 49yo with low-grade MS. But I have had another who could not do a goblet squat or a single pushup - he was 22yo but a computer nerd.

The ACSM guidelines are just that, guidelines. You ALWAYS have to consider the individual, their state on the day, and so on. If you didn't have to consider the individual, we wouldn't have a job, we could just give out programme cards and then leave people to it.

These things become clear once you finish the course and get your hands on people's bodies. You will make mistakes, you will screw up. So long as the client is not injured and comes back next time, it's all good.

And I did indeed answer your question. Forget her age, look at her capabilities and goals. Her capabilities are assessed just as you assess anyone else's, try something at a low level of weight or intensity, if she can handle it, keep increasing the weight or intensity until it's obvious she won't be able to handle much more - just below that is where you start her, and increase this over time. Her goals are assessed by asking her.

I might inquire about hysterectomies (to avoid certain ab exercises, or to very slowly work into them), additionally, post-menopausal women tend to have slower results than pre- so perhaps level setting the lady on what to expect could be in order.

[FueledByYelyah]

Generally speaking, no it's not. But if a trainer wants to specifically train bodybuilders, powerlifters, or Olympic lifters, then he would make a better trainer if he spent some time in the trenches.

BTW, my lesbian cousin said you look like a gay pornstar. (Not that I know what a gay pornstar looks like.)

nice

[chrisarnett]

I've learned if they are healthy and strong you can break them into training. I've trained this client for about 15 years now. She is currently 64 years of age and this video is about 2 years old:

http://www.youtube.com/onestopfitness#p/u/3/PHK0tN8BBpc

Just learn to listen to your clients! You gotta drop that trainer ego thing and get into listening when your clients speak.

[hitz2000]

I've learned if they are healthy and strong you can break them into training. I've trained this client for about 15 years now. She is currently 64 years of age and this video is about 2 years old:

http://www.youtube.com/onestopfitness#p/u/3/PHK0tN8BBpc

Just learn to listen to your clients! You gotta drop that trainer ego thing and get into listening when your clients speak.

LET THE PEOPLE SPEAK AMEN TO THAT!

and also I liked what someone said earlier with the basics, but what I am more interested is what exercises would you incorporated with balance and reflex timings?