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    Registered User Xantim's Avatar
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    Low TSH, Normal T3 & T4

    Blood test just came in, and apparently I have very low TSH (~0.3). However, we had some follow up T3 and T4 tests and they came out within the normal ranges (not near any extreme).

    What does this even mean?

    Some more info:
    -I have trouble sleeping at night (Can't fall asleep for hours)
    -Gains in the gym are amazing and I don't gain fat easily despite eating a lot
    -I'm very energetic and motivated in the gym

    Thanks
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    you want low tsh and normal t3 and t4, it implies perfect thyroid function

    your doctor is a retard if he/she thinks otherwise...this can't be an actual endocrinologist

    your sleep problem is totally unrelated

    do you take any caffeine, have you tried black-out curtains, ear-plugs/white noise machine etc?
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    Registered User Xantim's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    you want low tsh and normal t3 and t4, it implies perfect thyroid function

    your doctor is a retard if he/she thinks otherwise...this can't be an actual endocrinologist

    your sleep problem is totally unrelated

    do you take any caffeine, have you tried black-out curtains, ear-plugs/white noise machine etc?
    Thanks for the information, measly reps on RC. He is not an endocrinologist, just my regular check up doctor.

    I do drink a cup of coffee before the gym (5x a week), but I drink it early in the morning. Can that still affect my sleep schedule even though I take caffeine in the morning?
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    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post
    Thanks for the information, measly reps on RC. He is not an endocrinologist, just my regular check up doctor.

    I do drink a cup of coffee before the gym (5x a week), but I drink it early in the morning. Can that still affect my sleep schedule even though I take caffeine in the morning?
    well, the half-life of caffeine is longer than you think, but it shouldn't really matter if it's 1 cup early in the morning.

    i would try the other things if i were you. I can't sleep without them, but with them i fall asleep instantly. i'm never tired, but when i'm ready to fall asleep in a pitch black room i very rapidly fall asleep. the ear plugs and white noise machine accelerate it faster and keep me from waking up
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    All jokes aside, I got an alarm clock/noise machine for 20 bucks, I also got a twin draft guard and put al foil over my windows.

    I work midnights and sleep during the day.



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  7. #7
    Registered User Xantim's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    well, the half-life of caffeine is longer than you think, but it shouldn't really matter if it's 1 cup early in the morning.

    i would try the other things if i were you. I can't sleep without them, but with them i fall asleep instantly. i'm never tired, but when i'm ready to fall asleep in a pitch black room i very rapidly fall asleep. the ear plugs and white noise machine accelerate it faster and keep me from waking up
    Thanks again for the input. I'm aware that the half life of caffeine is around 6 hours, so I'm certain that some of the caffeine is still in my system at night.

    I'll definitely try the things you listed though. What do you prefer to use as a white noise machine? I remember there was an app on iTunes that generated white noise and it got extremely positive reviews and ratings. Is that the one you use? Also how does sleeping with headphones work? I imagine that would be pretty uncomfortable.
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    Looks like subclinical hyperthyroidism. If you're worried about it, you can go ahead and check with an endocrinologist. In the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't consider it a big deal unless the symptoms get out of hand.

    And, on the contrary, sleep problems can be attributed to this.
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    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post
    Blood test just came in, and apparently I have very low TSH (~0.3). However, we had some follow up T3 and T4 tests and they came out within the normal ranges (not near any extreme).

    What does this even mean?

    Some more info:
    -I have trouble sleeping at night (Can't fall asleep for hours)
    -Gains in the gym are amazing and I don't gain fat easily despite eating a lot
    -I'm very energetic and motivated in the gym

    Thanks
    If your T3 T4 were higher I'd guess Graves disease
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by ratfish View Post
    you want low tsh and normal t3 and t4, it implies perfect thyroid function

    your doctor is a retard if he/she thinks otherwise...this can't be an actual endocrinologist

    ?
    this
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by patrick4588 View Post
    this
    the reference ranges on so many lab results are all fukked up

    you definitely want tsh to be below 1

    sounds like OP is eating adequate amounts of iodine and selenium
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    the reference ranges on so many lab results are all fukked up

    you definitely want tsh to be below 1

    sounds like OP is eating adequate amounts of iodine and selenium
    his was .3...a little lower than that calls for some real testing to be done.

    He's probably ok but he needs to keep monitoring this each year when he gets blood work done
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    Originally Posted by MakeABanana View Post
    Looks like subclinical hyperthyroidism. If you're worried about it, you can go ahead and check with an endocrinologist. In the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't consider it a big deal unless the symptoms get out of hand.

    And, on the contrary, sleep problems can be attributed to this.
    Thanks for the response. I knew I had some sort of hyperthyroidism since I've been hyper all my life. I'm kind of torn now though, so my insomnia can be attributed to low TSH? I know that thyroid problems in general -hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism- can cause insomnia, but I didn't think having a low TSH would induce it too.

    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    If your T3 T4 were higher I'd guess Graves disease
    **** man, that scares me... I dun goofed? What do you think about my sleeping problems? Can they be attributed to low TSH? My T3 and T4 (do not recall levels specifically) were both higher than the interval's average, but not by much.

    Originally Posted by memcop View Post
    All jokes aside, I got an alarm clock/noise machine for 20 bucks, I also got a twin draft guard and put al foil over my windows.

    I work midnights and sleep during the day.



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    Definitely interested in some white noise generators. I'm thinking about getting an app as I've mentioned.
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  16. #16
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    OP has failed to mention his family's history of thyroid problems (or lack of)
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    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post

    **** man, that scares me... I dun goofed? What do you think about my sleeping problems? Can they be attributed to low TSH? My T3 and T4 (do not recall levels specifically) were both higher than the interval's average, but not by much.

    .
    You don't have graves disease (unlikely at least). I'm sure they would have done the auto antibody test and investigated that if the doc suspected it. Your eyes would also start bulging out like Rodney Dangerfield lol (he had graves)
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    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    his was .3...a little lower than that calls for some real testing to be done.

    He's probably ok but he needs to keep monitoring this each year when he gets blood work done
    .3 is perfect brah. so many people with a marginal iodine status are walking around well over 1.0 and they're all fukked up as a result. or they have low t4 as a result of marginal selenium status. it's depressing how much of what we consider to be poor luck health problems are actually the result of poor nutrition. iodine from kelp and selenium from seafood and liver (liver being the most important food to eat for a fukkton of reasons).

    with an endocrine cascade like this one, you want the initiator to be low because it means the subsequent stages are responsive. just like you want gnrh/lh to be on the low side or you are looking at primary hypogonadism
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    OP has failed to mention his family's history of thyroid problems (or lack of)
    No history at all.

    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    You don't have graves disease (unlikely at least). I'm sure they would have done the auto antibody test and investigated that if the doc suspected it. Your eyes would also start bulging out like Rodney Dangerfield lol (he had graves)
    Alright thanks for the input. As the misc MD I'd really appreciate your input on the connection between low TSH and insomnia though. Thoughts?
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    Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    .3 is perfect brah. so many people with a marginal iodine status are walking around well over 1.0 and they're all fukked up as a result. or they have low t4 as a result of marginal selenium status. it's depressing how much of what we consider to be poor luck health problems are actually the result of poor nutrition. iodine from kelp and selenium from seafood and liver (liver being the most important food to eat for a fukkton of reasons).
    I agree he's probably fine, and also the part about nutrition.

    However- that's not always the problem. I certainly wouldn't say Liver is the most important food to eat...nor is seafood needed for selenium, a better source are Brazil Nuts (your RDA is 1 nut srs). A true balanced diet with a multi is all you need, and if you eat liver and other odd foods I suggest doing so in a moderate portion- no need to eat tons
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    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post
    Blood test just came in, and apparently I have very low TSH (~0.3). However, we had some follow up T3 and T4 tests and they came out within the normal ranges (not near any extreme).

    What does this even mean?

    Some more info:
    -I have trouble sleeping at night (Can't fall asleep for hours)
    -Gains in the gym are amazing and I don't gain fat easily despite eating a lot
    -I'm very energetic and motivated in the gym

    Thanks
    Sounds like you're borderline hyperthyroid. Really, it's a bit of a blessing except for the sleeping thing. Try some valerian root or something like that to see if it helps with the sleep.
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    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post
    No history at all.



    Alright thanks for the input. As the misc MD I'd really appreciate your input on the connection between low TSH and insomnia though. Thoughts?
    High T3/T4 would make sense in terms of insomnia...but your levels are good. As others said, your low TSH seems to be stimulating a perfectly fine amount of thyroid hormone...if anything it just means your receptors are very sensitive to TSH.

    not quite sure about the insomnia....are you on any meds and were any other aspects of your blood work off? Need more details brah
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    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    I agree he's probably fine, and also the part about nutrition.

    However- that's not always the problem. I certainly wouldn't say Liver is the most important food to eat...nor is seafood needed for selenium, a better source are Brazil Nuts (your RDA is 1 nut srs). A true balanced diet with a multi is all you need, and if you eat liver and other odd foods I suggest doing so in a moderate portion- no need to eat tons
    i dunno about brazil nuts: http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/c...brazilnuts.htm

    when you eat foods that are the most dense source of a particular thing, they tend to bioaccumulate other sh!t you don't want
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    Registered User alaska21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    i dunno about brazil nuts: http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/c...brazilnuts.htm

    when you eat foods that are the most dense source of a particular thing, they tend to bioaccumulate other sh!t you don't want
    Thats why I said 1 nut a day. Def don't eat a lot- I agree. How are you eating your liver btw? Kind of curious now haha
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    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post
    Blood test just came in, and apparently I have very low TSH (~0.3).

    -I have trouble sleeping at night (Can't fall asleep for hours)
    -Gains in the gym are amazing and I don't gain fat easily despite eating a lot
    -I'm very energetic and motivated in the gym
    As others have pointed out, 0.3 is within the current standard reference range -- which is interesting due to the fact that your symptoms are similar to low TSH and elevated T4/T3 [i.e. insomnia, accelerated cell metabolism, restlessness, ect].

    Originally Posted by Xantim View Post
    I've always hated sleep even when I was young. My parents could not tolerate reading bed time stories for 2 hours just for me to fall asleep. It gets even worse when you actually think about going to sleep too.
    Nonetheless, it seems as though you are approaching sleep in the wrong manner. You need to find a comfort zone, and train your mind to essentially shut down prior to sleep. When you are excited and/or nervous prior to going to bed, neuronal firing rates are increased as a result. This can transform the act of falling asleep from a natural biological process, into a frustrating task. If you can't manage to train your mind yourself [and as a last resort], you can always try a pharmaceutical approach e.g. doxylamine, benzodiazepines, ect.
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