What am I doing wrong?

[Sensuality]

I am at 1200 calories a day and not losing? I even do yoga three days a week. My calories are all clean eating, low sodium, and plant based with the emphasis on vegetables and egg whites.

Why am I not losing still? I'm still stuck. I'm about to hire a personal trainer.

[KyleAaron]

1,200kcal is the daily ration for someone in a North Korean labour camp. You'd be lying around exhausted if you were.

You are not eating just 1,200kcal. Nor should you.

[rockangel]

My cals are at 1250 and I am still losing weight. But I am short and low in weight and 1200 isn't meant for everyone.

I would have to ask: is all you do yoga for exercise? How is your diet structured and how are you tracking these calories? How long have you been doing this?

Clean eating, low sodium and plant based don't guarantee you will lose weight. Low sodium may be an issue, sodium is an electrolyte and needed for the body.

[Ronin4help]

A person can eat 1200 calories and have a very good weight loss strategy. Many people eat less.

If you had a chicken breast and 2 cups of fresh broc (total 300 cals) four times a day, that would be your 1200 cals. This diet is not unusual or dangerous.

[untamedphysique]

A person can eat 1200 calories and have a very good weight loss strategy. Many people eat less.

If you had a chicken breast and 2 cups of fresh broc (total 300 cals) four times a day, that would be your 1200 cals. This diet is not unusual or dangerous.

True, but I believe many people who are dead-set on dropping weight, and dropping it fast will also perform excessive cardio and weight training workouts which can definitely put them in an unhealthy deficit coupled with low caloric intake.

Also, not sure how long their energy would hold up with such few carbs if they are training hard on that diet.

[rockangel]

True, but I believe many people who are dead-set on dropping weight, and dropping it fast will also perform excessive cardio and weight training workouts which can definitely put them in an unhealthy deficit coupled with low caloric intake.

Also, not sure how long their energy would hold up with such few carbs if they are training hard on that diet.

Don't assume. Go back and look at op's post history. She hasn't been tracking by a food scale, so her cals are an estimate at best. She only started this 1200 estimate about a week ago. She is 5'2 and a half and wanting to get "super lean" which she assumes is at 110.

[JohnSmeton]

I am at 1200 calories a day and not losing? I even do yoga three days a week. My calories are all clean eating, low sodium, and plant based with the emphasis on vegetables and egg whites.

Why am I not losing still? I'm still stuck. I'm about to hire a personal trainer.

Do you know your body very well? Are you counting you calories?

[Sensuality]

1,200kcal is the daily ration for someone in a North Korean labour camp. You'd be lying around exhausted if you were.

You are not eating just 1,200kcal. Nor should you.

I only started about a week ago, and I'm assuming based on what I was at 17 years old. I ate 1000 calories, but worked out excessively. I spoke with a great guy over ******** about it the other day, and he really explained things to me about macros, etc. So, right now I'm trying to focusing on getting half of my calories from protein, and a small portion from complex carbs, and an even smaller portion from good, healthy fats. It is difficult for me, because I don't really like meat. Something about just seems unhealthy to me? I love tofu, and other forms of protein. Right now I am pretty much forcing myself to eat meat to see if something changes up. I was very anorexic for awhile, as I said 1,000 calories a day, I was dancing about 3 hours a day with ballet at the time, and on top of that I worked out in the morning doing an hour and a half video along with jogging two miles, then in the evening I would do the elliptical and burn 800 calories in an hour. I have a very unhealthy point where I can get TOO extreme. I had a very unhealthy balance with food for awhile. Now, I want to get my body back into shape, but also restore whatever the hell damage I did to my metabolism back then. Anytime I eat like a normal person, I will gain weight, which of course I will! The only time I was ever able to lose weight after that period of severe damage to my metabolism due to anorexia and BDD in my teens was in my 20s and I would eat half a mcdonald's cheese burger a day, or one egg and two potatoes a day, in other words, an extremely unhealthy deficit. So, my muscle mass is screwed, and when I was 110, I had a higher than normal body fat percentage because I was starving myself while excessively working out. Pretty much, I'm just trying to figure out how to fix this.

My cals are at 1250 and I am still losing weight. But I am short and low in weight and 1200 isn't meant for everyone.

I would have to ask: is all you do yoga for exercise? How is your diet structured and how are you tracking these calories? How long have you been doing this?

Clean eating, low sodium and plant based don't guarantee you will lose weight. Low sodium may be an issue, sodium is an electrolyte and needed for the body.

I agree, I need to get my macros better. It's just hard for me to eat protein, but it's what I need! I need to get more muscle mass.

A person can eat 1200 calories and have a very good weight loss strategy. Many people eat less.

If you had a chicken breast and 2 cups of fresh broc (total 300 cals) four times a day, that would be your 1200 cals. This diet is not unusual or dangerous.

Indeed, I'm 5'2 and a half. I should be around 115 naturally. I really don't eat a lot, but that I think is in large part due to my horrible past with food. I'm trying to fix myself, basically. I'm trying to figure out what it is my body actually needs.

True, but I believe many people who are dead-set on dropping weight, and dropping it fast will also perform excessive cardio and weight training workouts which can definitely put them in an unhealthy deficit coupled with low caloric intake.

Also, not sure how long their energy would hold up with such few carbs if they are training hard on that diet.

Very accurate post.

Don't assume. Go back and look at op's post history. She hasn't been tracking by a food scale, so her cals are an estimate at best. She only started this 1200 estimate about a week ago. She is 5'2 and a half and wanting to get "super lean" which she assumes is at 110.

I assume 110 because that is what I was at when I was 17. I wasn't super lean, unfortunately, because as I stated in my above post I was severely anorexic then. What's weird, though, is that before I thought I was so fat and went on my crazy diet/work out spree, I was naturally 115/120 lbs without dieting at around 13/14 years old. So, even with what I put my body through, I still only got down to 110 lbs. Here's the thing, though, my body fat percentage was HORRIBLE even with all the working out and weight training I was doing because I was eating so low a deficit.

Do you know your body very well? Are you counting you calories?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I do know how to count calories, as most of the stuff I was eating before was vegetarian base and google knows calories or the package/can of tofu or beans or whatever would have it specifically stated. I am going to be buying a food scale in the future, though. I'm just really wanting to completely change my physique, but do it right this time. I really can't eat a lot. Yesterday I struggled getting to 140 grams of protein. I only ate 40 carbs, and like 50 grams of fat which is way too much fat, not enough protein, and not enough carbs. I also only ate about 1200 calories yesterday, and went on an hour long hike. So, it's just frusturating.

[kitpapa]

I only started about a week ago, and I'm assuming based on what I was at 17 years old. I ate 1000 calories, but worked out excessively. I spoke with a great guy over ******** about it the other day, and he really explained things to me about macros, etc. So, right now I'm trying to focusing on getting half of my calories from protein, and a small portion from complex carbs, and an even smaller portion from good, healthy fats. It is difficult for me, because I don't really like meat. Something about just seems unhealthy to me? I love tofu, and other forms of protein. Right now I am pretty much forcing myself to eat meat to see if something changes up. I was very anorexic for awhile, as I said 1,000 calories a day, I was dancing about 3 hours a day with ballet at the time, and on top of that I worked out in the morning doing an hour and a half video along with jogging two miles, then in the evening I would do the elliptical and burn 800 calories in an hour. I have a very unhealthy point where I can get TOO extreme. I had a very unhealthy balance with food for awhile. Now, I want to get my body back into shape, but also restore whatever the hell damage I did to my metabolism back then. Anytime I eat like a normal person, I will gain weight, which of course I will! The only time I was ever able to lose weight after that period of severe damage to my metabolism due to anorexia and BDD in my teens was in my 20s and I would eat half a mcdonald's cheese burger a day, or one egg and two potatoes a day, in other words, an extremely unhealthy deficit. So, my muscle mass is screwed, and when I was 110, I had a higher than normal body fat percentage because I was starving myself while excessively working out. Pretty much, I'm just trying to figure out how to fix this.



I agree, I need to get my macros better. It's just hard for me to eat protein, but it's what I need! I need to get more muscle mass.


Indeed, I'm 5'2 and a half. I should be around 115 naturally. I really don't eat a lot, but that I think is in large part due to my horrible past with food. I'm trying to fix myself, basically. I'm trying to figure out what it is my body actually needs.



Very accurate post.



I assume 110 because that is what I was at when I was 17. I wasn't super lean, unfortunately, because as I stated in my above post I was severely anorexic then. What's weird, though, is that before I thought I was so fat and went on my crazy diet/work out spree, I was naturally 115/120 lbs without dieting at around 13/14 years old. So, even with what I put my body through, I still only got down to 110 lbs. Here's the thing, though, my body fat percentage was HORRIBLE even with all the working out and weight training I was doing because I was eating so low a deficit.


That's what I'm trying to figure out. I do know how to count calories, as most of the stuff I was eating before was vegetarian base and google knows calories or the package/can of tofu or beans or whatever would have it specifically stated. I am going to be buying a food scale in the future, though. I'm just really wanting to completely change my physique, but do it right this time. I really can't eat a lot. Yesterday I struggled getting to 140 grams of protein. I only ate 40 carbs, and like 50 grams of fat which is way too much fat, not enough protein, and not enough carbs. I also only ate about 1200 calories yesterday, and went on an hour long hike. So, it's just frusturating.

You are NOT going to gain muscle mass at 1200 calories no matter how much protein you eat!!!

[Sensuality]

You are NOT going to gain muscle mass at 1200 calories no matter how much protein you eat!!!

Really?

[kitpapa]

Really?

Yes really. You need to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle mass.
You need to decide whether to cut or bulk, right now you have both in mind and it won't work out well

[Sensuality]

Yes really. You need to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle mass.
You need to decide whether to cut or bulk, right now you have both in mind and it won't work out well

Well, I need to cut first for sure.

What would you recommend for macros/calories then?

[KyleAaron]

Consider your history of eating disorders. Now consider whether, given that, it would be physically and mentally healthy for you to do a cut now.

[kitpapa]

Consider your history of eating disorders. Now consider whether, given that, it would be physically and mentally healthy for you to do a cut now.

^^this actually.

I've been where you are. Srs. I still struggle to this day. I'm struggling right now on contest prep even tho I left that stuff behind years ago! You have to get your mentality squared away first.

[Sensuality]

Consider your history of eating disorders. Now consider whether, given that, it would be physically and mentally healthy for you to do a cut now.

I think I am ready to do it the right way now. I want to be my healthiest, and I no longer have this idea that I need to be perfect to be my happiest.

That's a big reason why I'm on these forums. I really want to figure out how to do this the best way possible that will help restore my health and help me to lose excess weight. I'm just wondering if because I'm 5'2 that 1200 isn't uncommon for dieting? As I can usually eat anywhere from 1500 to 1800 calories a day (when I'm not trying to lose weight) and that is my maintenance. I am just wanting to find out what is my body's happy place, and not what I think is my body's happy place because I just want to cut a.s.a.p. I don't mind eating healthy. I just am trying to figure out what's going on with my metabolism, how to repair it, how to be my healthiest, etc. Hell, if I'm 135 or 140 lbs and that's where my body wants to be after I lose and it won't budge, I'd be fine with that. I just want to lose weight without resorting to drastic measures, and I do feel I'm ready to do that now.

[KyleAaron]

I do not think that this website is the best place for someone with your personal history. There's a reason, for example, the Losing Fat subforum is known as the "dumpster fire forum." And the place being dominated by adolescent males isn't good for any woman with less than humungous confidence.

I would suggest that the best thing for your physical and mental health right now is to join a woman-dominated black iron gym and aim to get strong as fck. Start by talking to these women, I'm sure they can help you find a good place.

https://www.girlsgonestrong.com

When you get strong, you often find your body changes in ways you like, and even if it doesn't, you don't care because you're strong. This, I have found, is the most consistently effective path to physical and mental health for people like yourself. Other things work, but this works more often and better.

[untamedphysique]

Don't assume. Go back and look at op's post history. She hasn't been tracking by a food scale, so her cals are an estimate at best. She only started this 1200 estimate about a week ago. She is 5'2 and a half and wanting to get "super lean" which she assumes is at 110.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say not to assume..

I was responding to the guy who said that 1200 calories could be accomplished without it being dangerous and I agreed with that. My point was that often times people will lower their calories as well as amp up their expenditure of calories in the form of exercise which if not done properly, can be dangerous.. it would be an assumption if I indicated that I thought the OP was doing either of those.. but I didn't.

[SerpentHearted]

OK. E/D Recovery specialist checking in.

You don't want to bulk OR cut. What you want to do is train towards your goal condition and also fuel accordingly.
What that does NOT mean is focusing on "calories burned" or "calorie deficit". As you know already, these are E/D related concepts.

Now choice of foods is largely irrelevant so there's no reason to force yourself to eat meat if you'd rather eat tofu. What matters is that your total energy intake is adequate but not excessive, and that within that total energy intake you have an adequate protein provision. Tofu, eggs & dairy are likely to be your best sources if you prefer not to eat meats. Of course you should endeavour to include enough vegetables and fruits but the balance of calories can really be whatever best suits you. Ratio of carbs to fats doesn't make much difference and I'd prefer everyone stop thinking "clean carbs" are a thing at all. Not because there's an issue with carbs, but because of the inference that there are "unclean" foods that can't be included within a good plan for appropriate eating habits.

You need to be training & fueling for best performance and condition, to facilitate an increase in lean mass at the expense of fat stores. This doesn't mean "a bulk". But it also doesn't mean working to restricted energy intake (aka "in deficit") trying to starve and burn fat off either. You must train productively and work towards an intelligent estimate of the optimal level of energy intake to perform, recover & adapt to training with the development of your stronger, leaner, healthier goal condition.

I can write you a plan but I'm not cheap.

[rockangel]

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say not to assume..

I was responding to the guy who said that 1200 calories could be accomplished without it being dangerous and I agreed with that. My point was that often times people will lower their calories as well as amp up their expenditure of calories in the form of exercise which if not done properly, can be dangerous.. it would be an assumption if I indicated that I thought the OP was doing either of those.. but I didn't.

It sounded as if you were assuming that anyone who had 1200 cals was doing everything to excess. It sucks being on such low cals but for those of us who are less than 5 feet tall, it cant be helped.

[SerpentHearted]

It sounded as if you were assuming that anyone who had 1200 cals was doing everything to excess. It sucks being on such low cals but for those of us who are less than 5 feet tall, it cant be helped.

bull****.
people always seem to forget that you should take "level of activity" into account when determining people's requirements.
That doesn't just mean "time spent active" but quality of your training strategy and proficiency and physical prowess at training.

If you're training regularly at something like 75cals a day above your BMR and expecting to improve body composition you're in for a **** time IMO.

[rockangel]

bull****.
people always seem to forget that you should take "level of activity" into account when determining people's requirements.
That doesn't just mean "time spent active" but quality of your training strategy and proficiency and physical prowess at training.

If you're training regularly at something like 75cals a day above your BMR and expecting to improve body composition you're in for a **** time IMO.

Um ok sure.... but proof is in the pics. So you can just go look at my recent pics if you wish.... You can also check out my journal in the female forum.
I assure you, my lifts have all gone up and are continuing to go up, my energy levels are fine, except once a month (but I'm female)... my hunger levels are tolerable (but I'm dieting so I expect to be somewhat hungry)... I'm losing fat/inches while body weight slowly goes down (avg about half a pound a week).....

But your opinion is noted.

[Ronin4help]

Yes really. You need to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle mass.
You need to decide whether to cut or bulk, right now you have both in mind and it won't work out well

This is true. Many people think you can do both. You have to first understand the philosophy of body building (even if you are not interested in being 'huge') and once you understand the different stages, you then must decide if you are willing to endure the effects each stage generates (physical, mental and perceptual) and if willing you must adhere to each stage in their correct order (e.g. bulk first, cut last)

[Ronin4help]

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say not to assume..

I was responding to the guy who said that 1200 calories could be accomplished without it being dangerous and I agreed with that. My point was that often times people will lower their calories as well as amp up their expenditure of calories in the form of exercise which if not done properly, can be dangerous.. it would be an assumption if I indicated that I thought the OP was doing either of those.. but I didn't.

This is true. It certainly can be dangerous...and/or stupid.

[Ronin4help]

I do not think that this website is the best place for someone with your personal history. There's a reason, for example, the Losing Fat subforum is known as the "dumpster fire forum." And the place being dominated by adolescent males isn't good for any woman with less than humungous confidence.

I would suggest that the best thing for your physical and mental health right now is to join a woman-dominated black iron gym and aim to get strong as fck. Start by talking to these women, I'm sure they can help you find a good place.

https://www.girlsgonestrong.com

When you get strong, you often find your body changes in ways you like, and even if it doesn't, you don't care because you're strong. This, I have found, is the most consistently effective path to physical and mental health for people like yourself. Other things work, but this works more often and better.

Good post Kyle.

[SerpentHearted]

This is true. Many people think you can do both.

Of course you CAN do both.
Unless you're already at an advanced level with very low body fat to begin with.

Someone who is ... let's use some large and round numbers for the sake of the example.
Someone who is 100kg at 40% bodyfat, therefore 60kg of lean mass.
Could they train with a goal of being 80kg at 20% bodyfat? Certainly they could.

That would entail a 4kg gain of lean mass while losing 20kg. They don't need to "bulk first" as in go to calorie surplus and gain weight in pursuit of more lean mass. And they don't need to sacrifice lean mass in pursuit of a less excessive amount of body fat.

I'm trying not to be antagonistic or unnecessarily disrespectful but how do people not get this? Especially when in this context of a beginner / novice client who has presented as in recovery from anorexia?

[Ronin4help]

Of course you CAN do both.
Unless you're already at an advanced level with very low body fat to begin with.

Someone who is ... let's use some large and round numbers for the sake of the example.
Someone who is 100kg at 40% bodyfat, therefore 60kg of lean mass.
Could they train with a goal of being 80kg at 20% bodyfat? Certainly they could.

That would entail a 4kg gain of lean mass while losing 20kg. They don't need to "bulk first" as in go to calorie surplus and gain weight in pursuit of more lean mass. And they don't need to sacrifice lean mass in pursuit of a less excessive amount of body fat.

I'm trying not to be antagonistic or unnecessarily disrespectful but how do people not get this? Especially when in this context of a beginner / novice client who has presented as in recovery from anorexia?

What are you talking about? Let's try again.. YOU CAN NOT BULK UP AND CUT SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Bulk= TO GAIN WEIGHT
Cut=TO LOSE WEIGHT

In your example, the person went from 100 kg to 80 kg. This is referred to as CUTTING. Just because his/her comp changed this doesn't mean muscle mass changed, it simply means the percentage of muscle mass is greater due to the loss of body fat.

If you had 10 jellybeans (6 green and 4 yellow), you have 60 percent green beans and 40 percent yellow beans. Now remove 2 yellow beans. Your green bean percentage grew from 60 percent to 75 percent, however you did not gain any new green beans.

[SerpentHearted]

OK maybe I gave people too much credit but I really would have assumed you'd have run the maths before responding.

80kg - 20% = 64kg.

In this example, as previously stated: a gain of 4kg lean mass while losing 20kg.
This is a better outcome than just losing the 20kg including any amount of lean mass.

Yes "bulk = gain weight" and "cut = lose weight" but my point is... you don't have to "do a bulk and gain weight" to add lean mass and you shouldn't be cutting to starvation level calorie restrictions and sacrificing lean mass in pursuit of weight loss either. Not at beginner / novice levels and especially not with this client profile of history of eating disorder.

[Ronin4help]

OK maybe I gave people too much credit but I really would have assumed you'd have run the maths before responding.

80kg - 20% = 64kg.

In this example, as previously stated: a gain of 4kg lean mass while losing 20kg.
This is a better outcome than just losing the 20kg including any amount of lean mass.

Yes "bulk = gain weight" and "cut = lose weight" but my point is... you don't have to "do a bulk and gain weight" to add lean mass and you shouldn't be cutting to starvation level calorie restrictions and sacrificing lean mass in pursuit of weight loss either. Not at beginner / novice levels and especially not with this client profile of history of eating disorder.

This is what you wrote:
Someone who is 100kg at 40% bodyfat, therefore 60kg of lean mass.
Could they train with a goal of being 80kg at 20% bodyfat? Certainly they could.

100 kg to 80 kg is CUTTING. Now you are saying 80kg - 20% = 64kg. WTF???

Not only is your math off, but you do not understand what 'lean mass' means. You are using it to mean 'muscle mass', however, the term 'lean mass' includes all your organs, bones, skin, water % AND your muscles.

[SerpentHearted]

This is what you wrote:
Someone who is 100kg at 40% bodyfat, therefore 60kg of lean mass.
Could they train with a goal of being 80kg at 20% bodyfat? Certainly they could.

100 kg to 80 kg is CUTTING. Now you are saying 80kg - 20% = 64kg. WTF???

What's confusing about it?

80kg & 20% bf IMO is quite a reasonable goal IMO.
And as the maths demonstrates, it entails a 4kg gain in lean mass from the starting condition of 100kg & 60% bf.

Therefore I disagree with the earlier quote "you need to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle mass". Obviously the OPs stats are different but the advice applies. She does not need to do "a bulk" and go into calorific surplus to add lean mass. She should train & fuel for best condition within a suitable weight range... meaning training for more lean mass while NOT in surplus so that fat loss occurs without restrictive dieting aka "a cut" in the 1200 calories sense described earlier.

[Ronin4help]

AGAIN....you do not understand what 'lean mass' means. You are using it to mean 'muscle mass', however, the term 'lean mass' includes all your organs, bones, skin, water % AND your muscles.