TIP: Threads About Re-Comp or Gaining Muscle

[Cape1]

Figured I would put this out there to help the 150 pound guys who want to "Recomp". This is geared to the skinny/fat kids who are new(er) to working out and want to get jacked! This does not apply to anyone else. First, "recomp" is kind of a misnomer in a way. What you really want to do is gain muscle mass. When you keep your body fat the same or increase it slightly, while gaining muscle, beleive it or not you are becoming leaner...in other words, you're "recomping"...

I'm not an expert on Nutrition or Workouts. At least half the web site here will disagree with everything I'm about to tell you. Most of what I'm telling you is complete bullsh*t from a scientific stand point. I accept that and I'm not sufficiently Schooled in these matters to argue it. I will only say that what I'm preaching here worked for me and everyone else I know who ever build any appreciable muscle mass. The dudes walking around your gym squating 600 + pounds, deadlifing small trucks and bench pressing the average sized Sedan, at least most of them, were all fatter than they would have liked at one point or another. Im in no way suggesting that anyone should endeavor to gain unhealthy levels of body fat; however, some fat is going to happen for a good cause.

Food:
You will not grow to your potential by eating like a bitch! I know it's ideal to eat only a few hundred cals higher than maintenance and for most people that is sound advice. I certainly would not eat much more than that. You're a beginner though and you're young. You're goal is maximum bang for the buck!! Again, I'm aiming this at young skinny/fat guys and not 42 year olds who are maxed out. Bottom line, I've never seen anyone make significant gains without eating like a damn Horse. You have to consume the calories ...not those that you need today...you're looking for those required by the future Beast you want to see in the mirror. Rule of thumb for the skinny kids. Eat your protein first and then eat carbs until you are full. The more the merrier. I know too much protein is Bullsh*t scientifically and I'm the first to say that eating too much of it is not doing you any good. Bottom line: I've never seen anyone really grow to their potentiall who wasn't willing to eat whole Chickens in one sitting.

You WILL Gain Fat:
Yes, you will say farewell to those precious little Abs.. Your girl friend might cry.. I know it's a trauma for most of you but it's just a Sad fact. If your girl doesn't like it, tell her to take a walk and find another girl friend (if you don't already have a back up). There is a price to pay and gaining some lard is part of that price. Beleive me: you will look better with the added 20 pounds of muscle mass at some point; and, remember, you can diet off that little bit of extra fat later. There are guys around here who gain 2 onces of muscle per year insisting that more is impossible without fat gain. It should not shock any of you that they are not the biggest guys out there. Most of the pro's you see, most anyway, were all fat asses at one point or another. Look no further than Lee Priest in the off-season.

Don't be a Pussy at the Gym:
If you're capable of lifting tomorrow after you lifted today, guess what? You failed. You should almost need a wheel chair to leave the gym after your workouts; and you absolutely need the full recovery day between sessions. You need to lift in a way that you're probably not going to like. It will hurt and it will be very uncomfortable, you will sweat, you will feel pain, You will look like you're suffering. You WILL NOT be that pussy prancing around the gym with every hair in place, with a big smile, barely cracking a sweat, talking to everyone and basically looking like the complete tool-bag-waste-of-space that he is. Muscle does not grow by accident! Your job - the only job- is to create the stimulus.

I would highly recommend the DC (Dog Crapp) system of training. I never got stronger as fast as I did following the DC protocal. In short, you are doing one work set per muscle group. It's a rest pause set though and it's brutal. The logic is that you're pushing yourself to do 12+ reps with your 6 rep max. When you combine this with Dante's stretch protocals, and all that good eating, unless you have some kind of Hormonal issue, your body will have no choice but to grow. You will be putting in 100% effort.

My point in writing this is that I see guys really conflicted and battling with this whole body image thing. You want to be lean but you want the muscle too. You're young, you're just starting out, and the gains are there for the taking as long as you have the Balls....

Again, I'm not suggesting that you become morbidly obese during this process. What I am suggesting is that if you really want to "RE_COMP", muscle gain is priority number one and gaining a little fat for a good cause, within reason, is a price well worth paying!

Just my thoughts on the matter.
-Steve

[jon1995]

great thread idea..will read when i get home. = D thanks.

[illiniStrive]

Don't be a Pussy at the Gym:
If you're capable of lifting tomorrow after you lifted today, guess what? You failed. You should almost need a wheel chair to leave the gym after your workouts; and you absolutely need the full recovery day between sessions. You need to lift in a way that you're probably not going to like. It will hurt and it will be very uncomfortable, you will sweat, you will feel pain, You will look like you're suffering. You WILL NOT be that pussy prancing around the gym with every hair in place, with a big smile, barely cracking a sweat, talking to everyone and basically looking like the complete tool-bag-waste-of-space that he is. Muscle does not grow by accident! Your job - the only job- is to create the stimulus.

I would highly recommend the DC (Dog Crapp) system of training. I never got stronger as fast as I did following the DC protocal. In short, you are doing one work set per muscle group. It's a rest pause set though and it's brutal. The logic is that you're pushing yourself to do 12+ reps with your 6 rep max. When you combine this with Dante's stretch protocals, and all that good eating, unless you have some kind of Hormonal issue, your body will have no choice but to grow. You will be putting in 100% effort.

Agreed... sort of.

The whole "shouldn't be able to function properly the next day" ideal in terms of workouts is not exactly the best protocol for training. I completely agree in the sense that a lot of people who have time for 2x a day workouts and 6-7 day a week workouts are not training hard enough. But the idea that your training should essentially cripple you is just as bad. It falls in line with the myth that if you're not sore your workout was a failure. Over this summer I've rarely gotten DOMS, and the few times I have were only when I added a new exercise (tri extensions, GHRs) in an unfamiliar rep range. Yet my squat has gone from 185x5 to 195x5 (197.2 x 3), bench from 90x5 to 105x5, and deadlift 225x5 to 240x5. Not bragging since at my weight these are far from spectacular stats, but if I used soreness as my primary litmus test then I would have to deem these past 10 weeks a complete failure. Soreness CAN be an indication of good work in the gym, but a lack of soreness does not mean someone isn't working hard. I could go in and do 100 bicep curls with 2lb weights and would be sore the next day. Does that mean it was a good use of my gym time? Hell no. I also have a light day incorporated into my training. If I just went into the gym every time and busted my **** I can guarantee my lifts would not only not progress, but might even do the opposite.

But again, I definitely agree with a lot of the other points. Lifting should be UNCOMFORTABLE. So many people look the same day in and day out in the gym, lifting the same weight, because they don't push outside of their comfort zone. Kind of sad really.

[Cape1]

Agreed... sort of.

The whole "shouldn't be able to function properly the next day" ideal in terms of workouts is not exactly the best protocol for training. I completely agree in the sense that a lot of people who have time for 2x a day workouts and 6-7 day a week workouts are not training hard enough. But the idea that your training should essentially cripple you is just as bad. It falls in line with the myth that if you're not sore your workout was a failure. Over this summer I've rarely gotten DOMS, and the few times I have were only when I added a new exercise (tri extensions, GHRs) in an unfamiliar rep range. Yet my squat has gone from 185x5 to 195x5 (197.2 x 3), bench from 90x5 to 105x5, and deadlift 225x5 to 240x5. Not bragging since at my weight these are far from spectacular stats, but if I used soreness as my primary litmus test then I would have to deem these past 10 weeks a complete failure. Soreness CAN be an indication of good work in the gym, but a lack of soreness does not mean someone isn't working hard. I could go in and do 100 bicep curls with 2lb weights and would be sore the next day. Does that mean it was a good use of my gym time? Hell no. I also have a light day incorporated into my training. If I just went into the gym every time and busted my **** I can guarantee my lifts would not only not progress, but might even do the opposite.

But again, I definitely agree with a lot of the other points. Lifting should be UNCOMFORTABLE. So many people look the same day in and day out in the gym, lifting the same weight, because they don't push outside of their comfort zone. Kind of sad really.

Probably some hyperboli on my part to make the point. I mean, yeah, you should be able to walk the next day.. For beginners though, the big hurdle once diet is buttoned up, seems to be understanding what it takes in the gym. Just going through the motions in there is a complete waste of time. The DC set up will usually produce good results for those who follow it.

By the way, good work on those lifts!

[jon1995]

the only comment i have is...i do an lower + abs/upper split 2 days on 1 day off 2 days on 2 days off. Alot of people do things like mine and Ryan Rogerson the personal trainer made it for me so idk if i agree with the 1 day ina row only. But last week i couldnt even walk up the stairs and felt like i got hit by a truck so yeah i agree with alot of what you say. The diet part kind of corresponds with my i dont want teh abz to go away =[

[blueelectrc]

Great thread! Informative and motivational. Thanks!

[Cape1]

the only comment i have is...i do an lower + abs/upper split 2 days on 1 day off 2 days on 2 days off. Alot of people do things like mine and Ryan Rogerson the personal trainer made it for me so idk if i agree with the 1 day ina row only. But last week i couldnt even walk up the stairs and felt like i got hit by a truck so yeah i agree with alot of what you say. The diet part kind of corresponds with my i dont want teh abz to go away =[

Thats probably a far different method of training than what I'm suggesting. DC is about building raw body strength and growing. If you lift in that manner, you wouldn't want to lift the next day. Recovery is the real key and probably where most people completely miss the boat. One big reason DC calls for one work set per movement. Once you do that set, there is absolutely nothing to be gained doing another one. It would only eat into your recovery ability.

so... in short, sure, different splits call for different things. With the DC sets ups though, and others similir to it, you really need a day of recovery between workout days. It's ideal for growth.

[Cape1]

Great thread! Informative and motivational. Thanks!

Thanks! I just cringe when I see a thread with some kid about 150 pounds, 20% body fat, skinny, asking if he should "cut" for the next 6 months.... or "recomp".. Total confusion.

These guys will be amazed at what happens when they finally get around to building muscle and setting up the right program/diet for that job.

Personally, I hate dieting. I like to look good but I have a strong inner fat-guy!! I would 10x rather eat everything in sight and go to the gym to just lift the heaviest weight I can manage and watch the weights increase with practically every workout.

[Serpentarius]

OP, how much weight do you think someone your height should be gaining a week on average?
Also what do you think of the guys in the gym who are clueless about nutrition and calories, but are pretty huge?

thx


good post and repped

[krete77]

OP,

Same height stat as me. Looking very lean in that avi. I've just come off a cut, and am looking to build the 20-25lbs of muscle that they say all beginners get when bulking, within 1 year from now. Don't care about gaining fat so much. Pretty sad I've been lifting for the past 7 years, and I've been going about it all wrong up until 3 months, when I found out compound lifts are the essentials, and diet is the most important part. I wish someone told me this in the gym when I was doing endless amounts of dumbbell curls and 'decline' presses lmao.

But yea thats my story, haha. Your work ethic echoes your post with proof from your current physique. Keep it up man. I'd rep you with what I got but I'm maxed out so I'll hit ya back.

[illiniStrive]

Also what do you think of the guys in the gym who are clueless about nutrition and calories, but are pretty huge?

I think it just shows that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and you don't have to know **** to look good There are a trillion routines out there, and for the most part if you eat enough and lift hard you'll grow. People get too caught up in the fine details sometimes.

Also hence why a good physique is not necessarily "proof" of knowledge.

[frank112]

Good post OP. I definitely agree that the younger folk are not taking advantage of their hormonal changes and are eating too little in fear that they will look fat. Also, since I just recently joined a gym, i've noticed that im one of the only few people who actually grunt and sweat like a bitch during my workouts (something that I always did when working out at my home gym). It's always boggled my mind how people can just waste their time by not going all out.

With all that said though, I think the best thing for anyone to do is to stay in the game for awhile and try different things until they find what works for them best.

Personally, I gain fat and muscle relatively quickly so if I ate like a horse, i'd balloon in fat very fast (which i've painstakingly learned). I also learned that my body responds very well to a combination of heavy lifting and hi volume. Using these two facts, im aiming to make my next bulk more successful than my first. I think this is the kind of thought process everyone should take on.

[frank112]

I think it just shows that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and you know have to know **** to look good There are a trillion routines out there, and for the most part if you eat enough and lift hard you'll grow. People get too caught up in the fine details sometimes.

Also hence why a good physique is not necessarily "proof" of knowledge.

Could also be steroids which i've been able to confirm several times by listening in on locker room convos.

[drewsedg]

I agree. When you are young(teens) and your testosterone levels are optimized for growth it is best that you take advantage of that while you still can. The common guideline of cutting to 10-12% bodyfat before trying to add muscle does not apply. The older guys needs to do this to lower estrogen levels and increase testosterone. When you are in your teens if you are under 20% bodyfat you should be working on adding quality mass. To do that means adding bodyfat as well. To optimize muscle growth it is going to require putting on just as much fat as muscle. A 1:1 ratio seems to be ideal for people outside of their teens. I suspect that differs for teens but I don't know one way or the other I'll just stick to the 1:1.

A skinny teen can put on a good 30 pounds of muscle in his first year. Add the 30 of fat and you are at 60 pounds per year. In order to gain that 60 pounds you are going to need a surplus of 575 calories per day. If you were to follow a 9 month growth 3 month bodyfat management schedule you could have an additional 25 pounds of muscle and a lower bodyfat percentage than you started with. That is not bad for a year of work.

[msm00b]

OP, how much weight do you think someone your height should be gaining a week on average?
Also what do you think of the guys in the gym who are clueless about nutrition and calories, but are pretty huge?

thx


good post and repped

From what I've researched the absolute max muscle most bodies can put on naturally (ie no juice) with perfect nutrition, constant surplus, and superb training +/- a coach is about a half pound of muscle per week. Granted that number might be higher for tall guys with huge frames and smaller for shorter guys with smaller frames - but I'm talking average guys. A realistic goal and benchmark for an ideal bulk is just over a pound of muscle a month and will have fat gains on top of that. Gains are going to slow' down over time as your body approaches the physiologic softcap (glass ceiling) for what your body frame can naturally carry.

All bets are off when you toss steroids into the mix, and there will always be genetic freaks with supranormal capacity for lean mass gains.

Teens who are still growing are a different beast as well. They'll make lean mass gains absent any training just from adolescence and ongoing growth - that paired with raging hormone levels means that they have the potential to put on mass significantly faster than their postpubertal counterparts. The caveat is that some of that mass was gonna be stuff they'd gain even without training - perks all of us guys got during that period of growth whether we appreciated or not. Generally speaking, however, late teens to early twenties is the ideal time to take advantage of hormones and pack on muscle. Ride the wave while the gettin's good.

[Cape1]

OP, how much weight do you think someone your height should be gaining a week on average?
Also what do you think of the guys in the gym who are clueless about nutrition and calories, but are pretty huge?

thx


good post and repped

Well, my weight and hight are not really that relevant here. I'm 42 years old and I've pretty much gained everything I'm going to gain at this point. For me, it's really about just keeping excess body fat at bay, which, for me, is a huge challenge. Right now I'm 225# and about 16% body fat ad working on leaning out a bit. To really gain allot of muscle now would require peptides and growth hormone which I'm not willing to do to myself.

.

Also hence why a good physique is not necessarily "proof" of knowledge.

Well said. I personally know and have worked out with a high level National level Power Lifter who has repeatedly told me not to do what he does!! He lives and dies by his own phucked up way of doing things - LOL. That said, I've picked up many of his bad habbits that have made me allot stronger than I ever would have been otherwise.... the irony.

All bets are off when you toss steroids into the mix, and there will always be genetic freaks with supranormal capacity for lean mass gains.

.

Beleive it or not, Steroids alone don't do a whole lot. What they will do, if taken properly, is ensure that you're consistently gaining to the best of your potential for the time you're on them. If genetically, you're capable of gainin that 1/2 pound of muscle per week, AAS will make sure it happens. What AAS will not do is make you gain 2 pounds per week instead of 1/2...Everyone's genetic response to steroids is different too. Some guys respond better than others. But, hey, I've seen guys gain 1 pound per week of lean mass on a heavy cycle. We're talking experienced guys here too and not newbees.

Also, What AAS WILL DEFINITELY DO is make you loose weight if you're not eating enough..!!!!! This makes them one of the most over-looked diet aids in the business. Testosterone, for example, is a wonder drug for dieting!!! The reason: it increases met rate big time. If I eat the same calories and take that, I loose weight like mad! If you're trying to gain muscle, you damn well better be eating a sh*T ton of food before you start taking gear or your efforts will backfire.

[Cape1]

Could also be steroids which i've been able to confirm several times by listening in on locker room convos.

Here again, Steroids will only do so much. People think that the drugs will iron out mistakes. In some cases, yes, you can get away with things that the non drug user cannot....e.g., very harsh diets, higher volume workouts etc. IT's not a free ride though.
The Drugs are good for making a 185# lean body builder a 200# lean body builder. They will not bring the 185# local guy to the national stage as a Super Heavy Weight. What I'm saying is that the guys you see that are Monsters were going to be Monsters even without the drugs, just to a somewhat lesser degree.
That said, I still wouldnt copy what they do - LOL. Some of these guys have stupid habbits in the gym.. I'm no exception - ex: I still do behing the neck, heavy, Military presses....a disgusting thing to do to your shoulders!!