Plateaued. Going to try Skiploading...thoughts?

[areya2005]

So...I've pretty much plateaued At 6.5 weeks out, and feeling behind, I'm willing to try anything. I've been doing a ton of research on "skiploading," and no one seems to have ill effects.

This is what I'm changing my diet to. I know the common thing is to get nervous and second guess yourself (which I am), but it wasn't too far from the original plan so I can take FULL advantage of the skipload.

(f/c/p)
Sunday - Friday: 40/60/210
Saturday:30/500/175.....6 hour window where I go hog wild on high GI carbs. I'm thinking of shooting for around 450g in that little time (3 meals), even though you're not really supposed to count on the skipload, but just keep the fat low. After the 6-hour window, nibble on protein to and the rest of the 50g of carbs to hit my numbers.

The real only big difference in my diet is I've taken out two medium carb days (135g) and replaced them with the low (60g) and my refeed is increased by 200g carbs, but in such a concentrated amount of time rather than the whole day.

I'm hoping this small change can rev me back up. At 6.5 weeks out, I'm sitting at about 169 depleted. I was hoping to come in 160.

I know I haven't given much of my background, but I'm planning on making a log and uploading pics next Wednesday, as I'm sure there will be some bloat after Saturday ;-)

[Slovation]

So...I've pretty much plateaued At 6.5 weeks out, and feeling behind, I'm willing to try anything. I've been doing a ton of research on "skiploading," and no one seems to have ill effects.

This is what I'm changing my diet to. I know the common thing is to get nervous and second guess yourself (which I am), but it wasn't too far from the original plan so I can take FULL advantage of the skipload.

(f/c/p)
Sunday - Friday: 40/60/210
Saturday:30/500/175.....6 hour window where I go hog wild on high GI carbs. I'm thinking of shooting for around 450g in that little time (3 meals), even though you're not really supposed to count on the skipload, but just keep the fat low. After the 6-hour window, nibble on protein to and the rest of the 50g of carbs to hit my numbers.

The real only big difference in my diet is I've taken out two medium carb days (135g) and replaced them with the low (60g) and my refeed is increased by 200g carbs, but in such a concentrated amount of time rather than the whole day.

I'm hoping this small change can rev me back up. At 6.5 weeks out, I'm sitting at about 169 depleted. I was hoping to come in 160.

I know I haven't given much of my background, but I'm planning on making a log and uploading pics next Wednesday, as I'm sure there will be some bloat after Saturday ;-)

Dont know until you try. What I bolded is something I would say isnt ideal.

[areya2005]

Dont know until you try. What I bolded is something I would say isnt ideal.

I kinda contradicted myself lol. I have macros I'm trying to hit, as listed, but in a much more concentrated window.

I'm very excited to see how this all works out.

Right now, I'm planning on.....

Meal 1: Homemade Pancakes
1/164/40
S/F Syrup
0/16/0

Meal 2:
WHITE spaghetti
4/130/24
Trader Joes F/F Pizza Sauce
0/21/6

Meal 3:
Honey Bunches of Oats Cereal
4/140/11
Hood F/F Milk
0/9/24

Totals for 6 hour carb-up window: 9/480/105.

For the rest of the day, I can nibble on chicken breast to add 70g protein and some almonds to cover the rest of the fat and carbs.

Any thoughts?

P.S. I'll take pictures too and post them once I start the log :-)

[devo09]

thats not a skipload, thats just an aggressive refeed and hitting your macros

[areya2005]

thats not a skipload, thats just an aggressive refeed and hitting your macros

Well that's my initial plan going into it. Skip says to eat based on hunger and keep the fat low. If I'm still hungry and eat more carbs in my 6 hour load, so be it.

When you've been eating based on numbers for the past 19 weeks like I have, it's hard to change your mindset for a day. 30/500/175 is my preliminary plan.

[BigPicNut]

So how did the skipload work out for you?

ANT

[areya2005]

Well.....

So all week, I was really watery and gross and was weighing in the 170s, close, but not my baseline of 169.6. Then boom, this morning, 4 days (4 full days...not counting Thursday) after the Skipload, I weighed in at 168.6. SUCCESS!!

Now I'm hoping I'll even shed more water/weight before the next load. If I do, although I'm sure Murphy wouldn't allow it, I might need to eat upwards of 900g carbs :-)

[BigPicNut]

Please keep this thread updated!
I love reading about people success (and failures) with new tactics.

What did you eat on your skipload?

ANT

[BigPicNut]

NM..
I just read your post up top and read what you planned on eating.
Did you stick to it?

ANT

[TheNaturalOak]

NM..
I just read your post up top and read what you planned on eating.
Did you stick to it?

ANT

In his log I believe he said he went up to 700g carbs that day!

[areya2005]

I did go up to 700g. I wasn't supposed to, but I did :-)

I ate everything I had planned, then later at night, I had more cereal and ice cream.

Tomorrow's plan (and it couldn't come soon enough):
Pancakes
S'mores
Cereal
Pasta
More of everything listed above
And if I'm not lazy, I'll make some sort of pie

[areya2005]

Even lower today, gais! 168.2....WOOHOO

[TheNaturalOak]

Even lower today, gais! 168.2....WOOHOO

awesome... wats ur cals/macros look like during the week?

[areya2005]

Low lol

40/60/210....f/c/p

I'm still strong as fawk though and still getting PRs. No "sign" of muscle loss at all.

[areya2005]

Another little update:

Just stepped on the scale for the hell of it and came in at 167.6. WTF!!!!! That's 2lbs loss this week. I have amped up the cardio a bit as I feel I'm behind, but wow.

Now I feel like I deserved the 700g carb load I'm taking in tomorrow. If I come in ANYTHING under 167.6, I'm going for 800g!

[BigPicNut]

With that 2 lbs of loss, do you suppose it is water weight?
Some days during prep, I am up, down and all over the f'ing board.
I tend to look at the scale the morning after my lowest carb day and use that as my basline. It is when I am lightes, but also holding the least water and gylcogen.
Once I carb up, forget it.

When you look in the mirror, does it appear as though those 2 lbs came from fat?
I guess that is my question for you..

[BigPicNut]

oh, and when do you look your leasest?
How many days after your skipload/refeed?

I tend to look leanest on my 3rd day, but my muscle size suffers.

I think the only cure for that is more muslce and less fat...
ANT

[areya2005]

With that 2 lbs of loss, do you suppose it is water weight?
Some days during prep, I am up, down and all over the f'ing board.
I tend to look at the scale the morning after my lowest carb day and use that as my basline. It is when I am lightes, but also holding the least water and gylcogen.
Once I carb up, forget it.

When you look in the mirror, does it appear as though those 2 lbs came from fat?
I guess that is my question for you..

I believe so. I just go by the number on the scale, shooting for 1.5-2 lbs per week. If I'm consistently losing, I can't be consistently losing water; some has to be fat.

Tonight, I looked the best I've ever looked. Whether it was water or fat, when I did a little posing, we're talking striated teardrops and tris. Midsection is getting more cut and defined as well. Basically, I'm under my baseline, which is a good week. And for reference, I use the lowest weight, no matter when it is, as my baseline.

oh, and when do you look your leasest?
How many days after your skipload/refeed?

I tend to look leanest on my 3rd day, but my muscle size suffers.

I think the only cure for that is more muslce and less fat...
ANT

I looked my leanest tonight, 6 days after the Skipload. I finally hit baseline yesterday. I take a little longer than most to shed the water, but as long as it comes off, and in a consistent and traceable fashion, I'm a happy camper!

What do your Skiploads look like?

[AustrianOakJr]

If you are talking about a true "skip load"......its low fat. Thats the whole "skip" twist on a "s h i t load". Its a s h it load without the fat. You are at 100+ grams of fat, its a S h it load, not a skip load. Apparently its working for you, but be aware that you can really do a lot of back sliding on your diet in a small 8 hr window of eating whatever you feel. The potential for such damage increases as you get leaner because your hunger signals do not turn off. I am coming out of contest season and have had a few nasty binges where I was consuming ridiculous quantities of food (quantities that make your skip load look like an appetizer) and I went to bed thinking about getting back up to eat some more. I probably put on a pound of fat in each of these binges. Post contest.....well, OK. Pre contest.....you just set yourself back a week or two. So just be careful and know that hunger is not really a good indicator of how much food you should eat. Part of the reason why skip recommends keeping fat low is that most of the food will be shuttled away as glycogen.

[areya2005]

If you are talking about a true "skip load"......its low fat. Thats the whole "skip" twist on a "s h i t load". Its a s h it load without the fat. You are at 100+ grams of fat, its a S h it load, not a skip load. Apparently its working for you, but be aware that you can really do a lot of back sliding on your diet in a small 8 hr window of eating whatever you feel. The potential for such damage increases as you get leaner because your hunger signals do not turn off. I am coming out of contest season and have had a few nasty binges where I was consuming ridiculous quantities of food (quantities that make your skip load look like an appetizer) and I went to bed thinking about getting back up to eat some more. I probably put on a pound of fat in each of these binges. Post contest.....well, OK. Pre contest.....you just set yourself back a week or two. So just be careful and know that hunger is not really a good indicator of how much food you should eat. Part of the reason why skip recommends keeping fat low is that most of the food will be shuttled away as glycogen.

Oh...I know. Last week with my 700g+, I only had about 40g fat. Planned out my breakfast for today (of which I'm about to makes), and it comes in at 175g carbs and 5g fat. My fat is actually lower than it needs to be. I in no way want to jeopardize anything as I feel I'm a little behind anyway.

It's funny....On FB, I made a post being like, "Oh...700g+ carbs..my kinda diet." I go so much crap from EVERYONE lol. I didn't let them know I was Skiploading, so they probably think I'm just eating whatever I want. These people also don't believe in IIFYM whatsoever.

[areya2005]

And just an update:

It's been EXACTLY 7 days since my baseline was set. I even weighed in around this exact time last week. Scale just gave me 165.6 which is 4lbs down from last weeks 169.6. I'm sure this isn't all fat and includes water, but the point is that the scale moved dramatically.

I have heard that this happens to people. They'll Skipload, hit baseline 4-6 days later, then in one night, they'll drop 1.5-2lbs, which is exactly what happened to me.

Now because this drop is so significant, one and/or two things need to happen according to Skip (I'm not working with him directly, but from emails and info I've gotten from the DVD). First, I am going to increase the load today to 850-900g. Now, if the same pattern persists next week, i.e. 4lbs loss, I need to raise my weekly calories AND keep my load larger.

I'm going to go make pancakes and hash browns now. Wish me luck! :-)

[BigPicNut]

What do your Skiploads look like?

I have done plenty of refeeds, carbups and had my share of cheat meals. From what I gather, the skipload is pretty much a mega carbup with low fat and moderate protein. Not too different from some of the Ketogenic carbups I did with a bit of Macro manipulation.

I love trying new things to see how my body reponds, so yesterday I did my first "skipload".
I have been eating:
p/c/f
225/150/35

Pretty stead for 6 weeks or so, but decided to give the skipload a try so this last week I slowly dropped my carbs each day by 30-50 until I was at 50gr 2 days in a row.
Then I launched in to the skipload yesterday.
I weight 177.2 (13%) yesterday morning, and today I weighed in at 181.2 - 6 full lbs of water and glycogen. Hopefully no fat, but I killed it for sure. Honestly. It was uncorfortable how many carbs I ate. Stupid in fact.
I guess what kind of drives me nuts is the sugary (high gi) carb requirement that skip promotes. Not that I don't love my high gi carbs when dieting, but to eat so many feels so dirty to me. The first couple of meals is great then I question my motives, but put pluggin away at it:

1 honey bran muffin
1 white bagle with jam
1 waffle with real maple syrup
1/2 sleeve ginger snap girlscout cookies
4 servings low fat wheat thins
1 sleve low fat graham crakers with 2 cups skim milk
3 slices deep dish chicago pizza (hold the cheese and toppings)
1 pizzookie (deep dish pizza pan filled with cookie dough, baked, topped with icecream)

Plus my protein shakes throughout the day.
830 grams of carbs
170 grams protein
100 grams fat (damned pazzookie killed me)


give or take..

I could hardly sleep.

According to my bodybugg I killed about 3300 calories yesterday.
and went over that by about 2000 calories or more.
I have to admit. I went nuts, and probaly should have tamed it down a bit, but I got it out of my system and feel good.

Today I am right back to my regular macros and will check in again next Friday morning where I hope to God I am at least 1 lbs lighter..

I am generally eating at a 800-1000 calorie deficit with the above macros I listed, so going over by 2k for one day (though not the brightest idea imo) puts me at a weekly deficit, but looking at the big picture, overall it really seems to hurts my numbers.
Depending on how well I do with fat loss by Friday, I will adjust my next skip load, and maybe decide if it it worth doing for me.

I hope my experience is as good as yours but I think my surpls of fat tunred my Skipload in to a cheat day.

ANT

[areya2005]

The way that I understand it is that you want to go lower in fat, not because dietary fat will make you fat, but that fat slows down digestion and the uptake of the carbs, the whole point of the load.

Your fat was still <20% of your total intake, so I wouldn't fret too much, but try to keep it lower next time. The problem is that when you don't eat like this, it's easy to mistake it as a cheat day when it's really not anything of the sort.

This morning breakfast, I crushed 250g carbs and only 9g fat, but it didn't come easy. I scour the grocery store to find lower fat items, and usually won't pick up anything over 3-5g fat per serving, and trying to stay on the lower end of the range unless it's absolutely delectable lol.

It took me 5 days to actually baseline, then the next 2 days, I continued to lose. Skips method has proven effective, so I don't think you have anything to worry about it. One thing to make sure of is to ensure you're pretty depleted. I keep my carbs at 65 per day and yesterday, I did heavy legs just to ensure depletion. I didn't take in PWO carbs and was pretty miserable all night so I knew my body would take full advantage of the load.

Keep this thread updated with your weigh-ins. One thing I do, I guess have only done once lol, is that I will not weigh myself for 2 days after the load. There's just no point. I know I will be heavier and it will just be depressing to see a number I don't want to see. However, it's imperative you recognize your patterns, i.e. when you baseline again, how fast you deplete the water, etc., to know when exactly you should load on peak week.

Go to Skip's site, and there is a forum thread entitled "Skipload Question." You can ask him anything and he's pretty good with responding. He obviously doesn't get super detailed as you're not his personal client, but he's more than willing to give you some more insight. Also, rewatch the DVD, especially the Skipload seminars and the Skipload Addendum.

I'm no expert, but maybe we can cooperate efforts to help each other out.

[areya2005]

Update:

So I just ended the Skipload. Since I lost 4lbs this week with no change in the weekly diet, I added another meal/100g carbs. The end macros for the Skipload were 27/800/136 (f/c/p). If I feel hungry, I may eat some chicken to get my protein to the 175g I had desired, but with calories reaching ~4000 today, I am in no way worried about muscle loss.

Things I ate today:
-Homemade pancakes
-Hash browns
-Low-fat pita chips
-Low-fat blueberry muffins
-Fat-free soft serve
-Rice cakes
-Cereal
-Enriched pasta w/ fat-free pizza sauce

So nothing too exciting, but a complete 180 from the norm.

As I said in a previous post, I weighed in this morning at 165.6. I won't be weighing in until Wednesday as there will be no point with the bloat and what not. I'm hoping for a 2lb. loss this week.

[areya2005]

Another small update:

Was still REALLY hungry last night and only had the craving for carbs. Since you're supposed to let your hunger dictate your intake, I went ahead and ate the cereal I was craving. End of day macros were about 35/950/140 (f/c/p)

Just for ****s and giggles, I weighed myself this morning. I wasn't going to worry whatsoever what the scale said, but thought it would be interesting to see my weight with all I ate yesterday. I came in this morning at 170.5, which is only about 5lbs over my low before the Skipload. If history and experience serves me correct, I will be 165 again in a matter of 3-4 days.

[BigPicNut]

Your fat was still <20% of your total intake, so I wouldn't fret too much, but try to keep it lower next time. The problem is that when you don't eat like this, it's easy to mistake it as a cheat day when it's really not anything of the sort.

Yeah. Next time I am going to pay much closer attention. WHen I looked at your numbers and say over 700 grams of carbs with less than 20 grams of fat I was sunk..
Not going to stress about it. Learn and move on..

It took me 5 days to actually baseline, then the next 2 days, I continued to lose. Skips method has proven effective, so I don't think you have anything to worry about it. One thing to make sure of is to ensure you're pretty depleted. I keep my carbs at 65 per day and yesterday, I did heavy legs just to ensure depletion. I didn't take in PWO carbs and was pretty miserable all night so I knew my body would take full advantage of the load.

Keep this thread updated with your weigh-ins. One thing I do, I guess have only done once lol, is that I will not weigh myself for 2 days after the load. There's just no point. I know I will be heavier and it will just be depressing to see a number I don't want to see. However, it's imperative you recognize your patterns, i.e. when you baseline again, how fast you deplete the water, etc., to know when exactly you should load on peak week.

All good points
I woke up this morning looking pretty lean. About as lean as I was pre skip load las week, but at 179.2 which is 4 lbs heavier.. Water, soldium, glycogen.. Crazy how they effect things as they do!
Judging my how I look not, things should get better then next few days. Can't wait to see what I weigh on Friday though!

Go to Skip's site, and there is a forum thread entitled "Skipload Question." You can ask him anything and he's pretty good with responding. He obviously doesn't get super detailed as you're not his personal client, but he's more than willing to give you some more insight. Also, rewatch the DVD, especially the Skipload seminars and the Skipload Addendum.

I'm no expert, but maybe we can cooperate efforts to help each other out.

Thanks for the reminder.
I honestly have not watched all of his videos. I need to do that.
I read his interview which is blasted all over the forums, and did some searching on (which is how I found your thread) but I did not do as much reading as I want to.
Going to spend a few more hours tonight.

I'll keep this thread updated with my own personal progress.
Looking forward to seeing how this goes. Usually my refeeds are pretty mild, and the deeper I get in to prep, the lower they go.
I usually carb up once per week, on leg day (weakest bodypart). I double my carbs for the first quarter of prep (lets say 4-5 weeks) then the next quart I increase carbs by only 75%.
The next quarter i only increase by 50%, then the last 4-5 weeks I might increase by 25% or so but I do it twice per week.. That is a rought outline of how I do it.
The idea of overloading with mega carbs and low fat is very appealing to the cheat side of me. Now I just have to focus on controlling the urges and sticking to the macros..

ANT

[BigPicNut]

Sorry for not updating this thread like I promised.

My first skipload, as you know was too fat heavy.
Around 100 gr I think (scroll up for exact number)

I did that on a friday.
The following friday I weighed in 1.8 lbs heavier but I looked noticably leaner.
My obliques were much more visable.

This time around I am trying to NOT MAKE DECISION based on the scale.
I am simply hitting my numbers, doing my cardio, and killing it in the gym.
This last skipload was my second one.
My macros:

854 carbs
201 protein
57 fat
So I did much better on the fat but still did not hit my goal of 25 grams.
I really wanted to dump it, and save the calories. I guess I have to look harder for low fat food.

Here is how it went
AM depletion workout = 100 minutes of Training, full body - Failure at 20 reps, - 3 sets per exercise, 3 exercises per body part except legs which got 6 exercises.

Post shake ( OMG - AMAZING!!
2 sccops trutein
1 cup skim milk
1 cup ice water
2 scoops waxy maize
3 full low fat graham crackers
Blend on high

OMG!! Best shake ever!!

Next
COCOS pancakes (4 small)
1 white bagel
1 packet honey
2 packets jam

4 cups golden grahams
2 cups skim milk

5 full Grahama crackers (low fat)
2 cups skim milk

4 full Grahama crackers (low fat)
1 Cup skim milk

12 inch pizza, no cheese

4 full Grahama crackers (low fat)
2 cups skim milk

That was it!

All that food and I still could have eaten aother fricking pizza..
The next day, back down to diet macros
250 P
150 c
40 f

Not hungry at all
Looked a lot bigger, Fuller and more vascular
Gained 6 lbs on skipload.

Will weigh myself tomorrow which is 3rd day after skip.
I should be about 179 or so.

I honstly am not concerned with how much I weigh next saturday. As long as I look better..

ANT

[areya2005]

My biggest problem is that since I'm dieting on 75g carbs, I'm a lot more sensitive. While I definitely get full and look huge, I spill over as I still drink about a gallon of water with the load.

ALA defintely decreased the bloat and helped me get fuller faster.

This past week's Skipload macros came out to 40/680/100....only was 3lbs higher the next day, but I still hadn't gone to the b-room, and I definitely ate more than 3lbs of food.

[areya2005]

A little update:

If any of you recall, my first Skipload, I ingested 750g of carbs and by the end of the week, I dropped 4lbs. I didn't want to lose that much, so for the second Skipload, I ingested 950g carbs. Nothing really happened at all that week. Never hit a new low or anything. Looking at the figures, I thought I had found a tough idea of where my carbs need to be for refeeds to make progress. So for my third Skipload, I took in 650g carbs. On Saturday morning, I was 166.6. Today, I weighed in at 164.4; a new low!

I have changed some things though which makes me believe I could have weighed in lower. I am taking a cortisol reducer right now and have not so much been doing more cardio, but doing it with Yohimbine. Y is also known for causing water retention, so there's a possibility I could weigh less.

Anyways, I'm happy with the progress and am excited to get this show done for. This week, I'm practicing my water manipulation and carb depletion/loading technique so I can see how it will work for peak week. I know everyone says to stay not play too much with water, but since I don't want to do the traditional 3-day carb load, but rather load like I have been every weekend, water manipulation is a key component to bringing it all together.

[BigPicNut]

A little update:

If any of you recall, my first Skipload, I ingested 750g of carbs and by the end of the week, I dropped 4lbs. I didn't want to lose that much, so for the second Skipload, I ingested 950g carbs. Nothing really happened at all that week. Never hit a new low or anything. Looking at the figures, I thought I had found a tough idea of where my carbs need to be for refeeds to make progress. So for my third Skipload, I took in 650g carbs. On Saturday morning, I was 166.6. Today, I weighed in at 164.4; a new low!

I have changed some things though which makes me believe I could have weighed in lower. I am taking a cortisol reducer right now and have not so much been doing more cardio, but doing it with Yohimbine. Y is also known for causing water retention, so there's a possibility I could weigh less.

Anyways, I'm happy with the progress and am excited to get this show done for. This week, I'm practicing my water manipulation and carb depletion/loading technique so I can see how it will work for peak week. I know everyone says to stay not play too much with water, but since I don't want to do the traditional 3-day carb load, but rather load like I have been every weekend, water manipulation is a key component to bringing it all together.

When I am very lean 6-7% or so..
I notice that the more water I drink throughout the week after my carbup, the leaner and lighter I get.

Last year I did a show in november, and starting aroudn mid september, my refeeds (though not skiploads) were at about 300 grams of carbs or so.
I was cab cycliing so my week woudl look something like this:

S-300
su- 250
mon 200
tues - 150
wed 100
th- 50
fri- 50

On the weeks I got my 1.25 gallons of water in every day, I was a ton leaner. I would wake up 4 lbs lighter in the morning compared to my PM weight.

On the weeks when I did not get my water in - less than .75 or so, I was never as lean looking.
I messed with wat a bit, but not much and figured out that for my body, the best thing was to keep water high as possible
On the day of the show I went through a gallon alone..
the day before the show I drank 2 gallons of water. and woke up ripped.
Still trying to figure it out exactly, but I know for me, I CANNOT reduce my water as I lower my carbs towards the end of the week or I hold water..
That is how it works for me anyhow.

ANT