Food combining...

[X-Manifest]

Basically protein foods (meat,dairy etc) require an acidic digestive enzyme to digest, and your starchy food require an alkali digestive juice. Therefore if you mix meat together with rice/potato in one meal they cancel each other out and the body has to use extra energy to digest the mixed food in the stomach. This is why you feel so tired and lethargic after eating a big plate of meat and potatoes for example. t robs the body of energy

So now...how important is it to combine your food types correctly and does it effect your rate of fat lose and packing on lean muscle?

I would think so as correct food combining would allow the body to digest optimally instead of food sitting on undigested food in the stomach and fermenting and going to waste (as well as give you more energy in general). Ive tried this for the past 2 weeks and i feel like a new man....its just bloody tricky not being able to mix meat with starch as one cannot have the usual chicken and rice, fish and rice etc etc (most meals have a starch member!), no mixing avo with meat etc etc.

Thoughts...

[psychodiver9]

Stop making stupid ass threads. Those are my thoughts

[mike201011]

Oh lawd.

Your body uses protein, carbs and fat differently.
It doesnt 'mix' them up and 'absorb' them faster/slower than any other time.
Your body just knows that protein went in, so it will use it. Same goes for fats and carbs.

[Taz80]

Read the stickies OP:


Food Separation Techniques

Ah, the infamous food separation techniques of sticking solely to protein+fat and protein+carbohydrate meals. How foolish is that? Separating out carbs from fat fails to to prevent unwanted fat gain, although it would be pretty swell if it did. If this was true, one could ingest as much fat as one wanted on a ketogenic diet and not add an ounce of adipose tissue. And guess what? That doesn't work either. Conclusively, the potent combo of protein+carbs is much more anabolic than protein+fat alone. Again, it all comes down to calories in vs. calories out that determines whether one gains or loses weight. The optimal choice is to eat balanced meals consisting of protein, carbohydrate, and fat, as food separation methods truly fail in offering prevention of fat storage and are virtually silly to abide by.

Threads regarding Food Separartion Techniques:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hydrates+night
^ Edit: fixed

[AlwaysTryin]

Any credibility you had went out the window with "fat lose" lol

[X-Manifest]

Holy ****, are most of you on the forum purely to get your post count up?

psychodiver9: your posts are completely useless, you have no clue what correct food combining is with regard to the different ways our bodies digest proteins vs carbs vs fats (do you even know the difference between an acidic and alkali digestive process? Its all the same to you eh).

mike201011: **** well you missed the point completely mate. I guess you're going to tell me that its also ok to eat fruit on a full stomach too. Get the **** out of town, do a bit of research on food combining with regard to optimum digestion.

Taz80: please post a working link, eager to read it.

[sweethunibabi]

X-Manifest, can you post your sources please? Also, ever hear of the placebo effect....??

...You feel so tired after a plate of steak and potatoes because a big meal requires blood flow to divert to your stomach to digest it. The same thing will happen if you eat a huge plate of broccoli.

[in10city]

I guess the fact that protein is hydrolyzed mostly in the near neutral lumen of the small intestine and enterocytes and patients who have total gastrectomies don't have increased fecal nitrogen even though they have no acidic compartment for pepsin hydrolysis is all just a big lie???? Mind. Blown. And BTW, food just doesn't sit and ferment in the stomach nor small intestines. Look up what is called the Migrating Motor Complex

[joelash302]

Holy ****, are most of you on the forum purely to get your post count up?

psychodiver9: your posts are completely useless, you have no clue what correct food combining is with regard to the different ways our bodies digest proteins vs carbs vs fats (do you even know the difference between an acidic and alkali digestive process? Its all the same to you eh).

mike201011: **** well you missed the point completely mate. I guess you're going to tell me that its also ok to eat fruit on a full stomach too. Get the **** out of town, do a bit of research on food combining with regard to optimum digestion.

Taz80: please post a working link, eager to read it.

Here's an interesting link:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/search...chid=628049591

[snorkelman]

I guess you're going to tell me that its also ok to eat fruit on a full stomach too. Get the **** out of town...

Please read the signature line used by in10city

[X-Manifest]

X-Manifest, can you post your sources please? Also, ever hear of the placebo effect....??

...You feel so tired after a plate of steak and potatoes because a big meal requires blood flow to divert to your stomach to digest it. The same thing will happen if you eat a huge plate of broccoli.

Sources are through guys like dr robert young, edgar cayce, william hay. I am aware that it is a very controversial subject however it just makes biological (and scientific) sense if you consider the different ph levels of the digestive juices needed to digest your proteins vs those needed to digest starches. How could an alkali NOT effect an acidic solution, it has to, and I'm sure we don't need to quote sources to prove that fact. The reason why I posted this in the first place was to see how many of you live by it or have at least tried, and what the results were.

Placebo effect? As convenient as that would be, I doubt it. When I look back I noticed lack of energy after eating the 'incorrect' combinations and more energy when eating correct combinations directly after eating. I did not only start noticing it when I made the conscious decision to try it out.

I have never heard of diversion of blood flow after a big meal being a cause of tiredness (not that I am arguing against it), but it wasn't only after large meals that I noticed a lack of (or increase in) energy. Allergies of course are one of the main causes of tiredness after eating in general so I believe this should always be checked first.

Anyway after reading about 20 separate threads on this forum with regard to food combining it appears that there really is no conclusive evidence. If you happen to find any please do swing it by me.

Thanks to all that contributed.

[joebrosef]

and not a single legit study was quoted that day...

[WonderPug]

Sources are through guys like dr robert young, edgar cayce, william hay.

Please cite specific peer-reviewed published journal articles.

[Shrederator]

mike201011: **** well you missed the point completely mate. I guess you're going to tell me that its also ok to eat fruit on a full stomach too.

IIFYM

:d

[X-Manifest]

Originally Posted by x-manifest View Post
mike201011: **** well you missed the point completely mate. I guess you're going to tell me that its also ok to eat fruit on a full stomach too.

IIFYM
:d

Shrederator your comment has nothing to do with optimum digestion (unless Im missing something). Regardless of whether you have your macros in or not, fruit is 'designed' to be digested quickly and pass through the system in a short amount of time. In addition, it only begins to digest in the intestines (not much happens in the stomach). Therefore eating fruit on a full stomach would result in quite the opposite to optimum digestion wouldn't it.

[WonderPug]

^ Ah, yea, um, well, actually, ah, no.

In other words, you're very, very, very confused.

[joelash302]

Shrederator your comment has nothing to do with optimum digestion (unless Im missing something). Regardless of whether you have your macros in or not, fruit is 'designed' to be digested quickly and pass through the system in a short amount of time. In addition, it only begins to digest in the intestines (not much happens in the stomach). Therefore eating fruit on a full stomach would result in quite the opposite to optimum digestion wouldn't it.

Consider this - Do you think that there is any evolutionary benefit to only being able to digest a single type of food at a time?

[AlmostDecent]

fruit is 'designed' to be digested quickly and pass through the system in a short amount of time.

Why on earth would plants have evolved fruits for optimal human digestion??

[Emma-Leigh]

From here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131990

Ok - Digestion 101:

What order you eat a meal is not going to make a difference to digestion. Once they hit your stomach the peristaltic motion (that is - the muscles in your stomach wall contracting) will mix it all together regardless! Also , the 'different enzymes' that are released are realised regardless of the order you eat your food.

In your stomach -
The presence of food in your stomach stimulates-
1. Gastrin - this is the thing that is responsible for the eventual relsease of HCl - or acid.
2. Pepsinogen - this is converted to pepsin by the acid in your stomach. Pepsin is important in the digestion of proteins.

In the small intestine -
Once food hits the small intestine the pancreas and gall bladder are stimulated:
1. the pancreas - It secretes many enzymes which help digest proteins, starches and triglycerides.
2. The liver/gall bladder - This is responsible for making and secreting bile. This is important in fat digestion. It is stimulated more when you eat fatty foods.

The small intestine itself is also important, but it actually does not secrete anything. It acts to further digest the carbohydrates, proteins and fats, due to enzymes that are bound to the wall of the intestines, and then acts to absorb these things.

So - digestion occurs in two parts - the LUMENAL phase - which involves all of the enzymes that are secreted by the stomach, pancreas and liver. And the MEMBRANOUS phase which is that which occurs because of the enzymes attached to the intestinal wall. It does not matter when you eat carbohydrates or proteins or fats during a meal, because the simple stimuli of food in your digestive tract will cause the secretion of the luminal enzymes (although as you increase your fat, you will stimulate more fat enzymes to be released).

Carbohydrates -
Starches are the only type of carbohydrates to undergo luminal phase of digestion. This results from enzymes (called amylases) that are released from the pancreas. These act to break down the long starches into shorter polysaccharides (intermediate chains called dextrins). These are then cleaved again to form Disaccharides or trisaccharides (such as maltose or maltotriose).

Sugars and the trisaccharides and disaccharides from the starches are then further digested in the Membranous phase. This involves enzymes (such as lactase - for the breakdown of lactose, sucrase for the digestion of sucrose and maltase for the breakdown of maltose) that are bound to the intestinal wall. So - these enzymes act on lactose, sucrose and the di and trisaccharides from the breakdown of starch to form glucose, galactose and fructose. These are them absorbed across the intestinal wall and enter the blood to go to the liver.

The liver then takes up most of the glucose/fructose/galactose and converts it into glycogen or fats while the rest stays in the blood for the rest of the body.

Proteins -
These are broken down in a similar fashion as carbs. But - the enzymes involved in protein breakdown are secreted by the stomach (pepsin and chymosin) and the pancreas. There are lots of different enzymes involved in protein breakdown (because of the large variety of amino acids). So - digestion of proteins begins in the stomach with the secretion of HCl and pepsin which begin to cleave the long protein molecules. This then continues in the small intestines with the secretion of pancreatic enzymes.

These smaller chains of amino acids (called peptides) are then either broken down by MEMBRANOUS phase enzymes on the intestine cells to form amino acids or are absorbed as dipeptides or tripeptides and then convert to simple amino acids by the cells. The amino acids are then released into the blood and are taken to the liver.

In the liver some of the amino acids go straight into circulation for the muscles, some are used directly for protein synthesis, but the rest are processed to enter the pathway of energy metabolism, carbohydrate formation or fatty acid formation.

Fats -
This is a little different. Fat is harder to digest because it does not absorb in the fluids in your gut. The digestion of fat is divided into four stages -
1. Emulsification - This begins in the stomach and involves the warming and mixing of the fats. This breaks the fats into globules. The Bile acids from the liver are then secreted into the intestines and makes the fat droplets even smaller.
2. Hydrolysis - Enzymes from the pancreas (lipases) then act on the fats to form smaller molecules.
3. Micelle formation - These smaller molecules (free fatty acids, cholesterol, single chain fats etc) combine with bile to form tiny, droplets called micelles.
4. Absorption - The micelles then attach to the intestinal wall and all the components (except the bile) are then absobed. These are then packaged (into things called chylomicrons) and secreted by the intestinal cells into tiny tubes in your intestinal wall called lacteals which take the fats straight to your heart, which then enters your back to your heart, which then pumps it to the body. These are then taken up by the liver or the fat cells.

These processes in the intestine take a while to complete (depending on what you eat) and so eating one thing 5 minutes after the other will have no effect.

After the initial absorption phase lots of other things happen... but that is another story......

Oh yeah - my moral... The only reason why you would eat something before or after the other during a single meal is for taste or because you wanted to. It will not alter digestion.

[joelash302]

Emma comes in and...

[X-Manifest]

IIFYM

:d

Why on earth would plants have evolved fruits for optimal human digestion??

No-one said plants evolved fruits for optimal digestion. I'm simply making the point that different food types digest at different rates, fruit being fairly fast relative to others. As for the core underlying reason WHY the human body digests fruit fairly quickly? No idea, you'll have to ask mother nature that one.

[dustinh6719]

From here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131990

Strike!

[nlite2000]

No-one said plants evolved fruits for optimal digestion. I'm simply making the point that different food types digest at different rates, fruit being fairly fast relative to others. As for the core underlying reason WHY the human body digests fruit fairly quickly? No idea, you'll have to ask mother nature that one.

What exactly is the endgame with this food combining? Good poops?

[X-Manifest]

^ Ah, yea, um, well, actually, ah, no.

In other words, you're very, very, very confused.

I think I'm more confused as to why someone with such high 'rep power' (and post count) would even bother posting something as useless as telling someone they are confused without even justifying why).



Emma:
Do you have any sources on (or can you explain why) the presence of amylases (that as you mention is released from the pancreas) to digest starches, together with the presence of enzymes involved in protein breakdown (pepsin and chymosin) all in the stomach at the same time, will not effect the digestion of one another at all? ie. you are saying that even though these chemical process's are happening simultaneously on 'mixed food' in the stomach, these chemical processes dont clash at all?

What exactly is the endgame with this food combining? Good poops?

Apparently according to certain schools of thought, more energy and more effective/efficient digestion [running ducking and hiding].

[nlite2000]

Apparently according to certain schools of thought, more energy and more effective/efficient digestion [running ducking and hiding].

The "School of thought" of Edgar Cayce--a "psychic" who died 60 years ago--Yippee!

Dr. Robert Young--Textbook Quack/charlatan


William Hay--never heard of him, google doesn't bear much fruit. Was he a rodeo clown?


You're better off on a generic new age wellness forum, where people might, unfortunately, take you seriously.

[Emma-Leigh]

I think I'm more confused as to why someone with such high 'rep power' (and post count) would even bother posting something as useless as telling someone they are confused without even justifying why).



Emma:
Do you have any sources on (or can you explain why) the presence of amylases (that as you mention is released from the pancreas) to digest starches, together with the presence of enzymes involved in protein breakdown (pepsin and chymosin) all in the stomach at the same time, will not effect the digestion of one another at all? ie. you are saying that even though these chemical process's are happening simultaneously on 'mixed food' in the stomach, these chemical processes dont clash at all?





Apparently according to certain schools of thought, more energy and more effective/efficient digestion [running ducking and hiding].

Go re-read again and then google as required such that you answer these questions:
How/ where does the pancreas secrete amylase in regards to the digestive tract?
And is the stomach important for the ENZYME phase of carbohydrate digestion?

[WonderPug]

any sources on (or can you explain why) the presence of amylases (that as you mention is released from the pancreas) to digest starches, together with the presence of enzymes involved in protein breakdown (pepsin and chymosin) all in the stomach at the same time, will not effect the digestion of one another at all?

[X-Manifest]

The "School of thought" of Edgar Cayce--a "psychic" who died 60 years ago--Yippee!

Dr. Robert Young--Textbook Quack/charlatan


William Hay--never heard of him, google doesn't bear much fruit. Was he a rodeo clown?


You're better off on a generic new age wellness forum, where people might, unfortunately, take you seriously.

I originally got put onto this idea recently by Tony Robbins. Ive followed and used his philosophies and teachings (as well as Jim Rohn and many others) for a few years now, and as a result I have become fairly wealthy using their methods. Now I say this not to blow my own horn, but am simply putting across the point that Tony's teachings have worked for me, and worked well. Can you believe that? or is he just some useless crack pot self help author to you? I'm assuming the latter. So I figured, well this guy seems to know his ****, why not give it a crack and follow his nutrition advice/idea's too (most of which he got from Dr Young as far as I know). You may know this, but success is all about modelling (no not the kind you do in your bedroom in front of the mirror mate). Now sure one cannot be a guru on every subject, but he most certainly is a knowledgeable mother f*cker when it comes to wealth creation and relationships in general, so I felt it was worth looking into his nutrition advice if he claimed it was working for him.

I then created this post to check what others thought of these ideas on food combining.

nlite2000 does that all make sense to you?

And speaking of 'wellness' forums, by the looks of your stats you've been spending your time on a weigh-less forum

Peace brother.

[nlite2000]

And speaking of 'wellness' forums, by the looks of your stats you've been spending your time on a weigh-less forum

Peace brother.

You need to fire your writing staff. Scour the clubs, find some new blood. The game's changing---this "take my wife...please" schtick aint puttin' fannies in the seats anymore.

I'm glad that Tony Robbins and his blindingly white teeth have helped you sort your life out.

[X-Manifest]

Emma, thanks for your helpful information so far. In summary should I assume the following (according to your opinion and knowledge):

- There is absolutely no negative effect what so ever on mixing different food types together in the same meal ie. digestion will be just as efficient and effective as in the case of eating starches and proteins in separate meals (and there are absolutely no exceptions).

- The idea of eating fruit on an empty stomach is complete and utter hogwash ie. digestion of the fruit specifically will be just as efficient and effective as in the case of eating fruit on an empty stomach.

- Are there absolutely any recommendations you have when it comes to the topic of food combining which you personally advise to follow?

- Is there any aspect of food combining which can/does effect one's energy levels after eating? or are your energy levels simply attributed to the individual macros that you are ingesting, and the combinations of these macros have absolutely no effect on energy levels what so ever.

Much appreciated